Games and culture/history/myth

[Humanoid]

Sometimes I wonder, the people that download nude mods which invariably top the popularity list for Elder Scrolls games and the like - is it for titillation? I mean, you can get a lot better pornography than that just using Google, right? And it's not like they add any adult functionality in the gameworld. An idle speculation I have is that it becomes more exciting just because it's a coherent gameworld - not that it's mistaken for the real world, but just that aliveness. Or, people are weird, I guess.

 

You see, Gamebryo has so many issues with alt-tabbing out of the game causing hangs/crashes/general-bugging-out, therefore making this type of content comparatively much more valuable for its convenience than for competitors with more stable engines.

[Tigranes]

Fair enough, I should be careful not to lump everyone in the same box. I can accept that for some people, nudity mods play a role in making the gameworld more coherent, while for most gamers, they probably bracket that part of 'unrealism' out to begin with. Then of course it's rather different with mods with sexual content or, I don't know, Thong Armour. And then, of course, there will always be people in denial, but that's something you wouldn't want to accuse anyone of, since it's impossible to tell.

 

I always thought the child-killing stuff in the Fallout franchise was actually similar. I never had any problem because I never saw a child I wanted to kill, or, more importantly, a child it would make sense for me to kill or to die in the crossfire in the context of a quest or story arc. That is, until Little Lamplight or whatever the name was in FO3, where the survival of children itself becomes a key story mechanic, and some children actively try to annoy you and do bad things.

 

I do think it's all related to the history/culture/ritual business. Most gamers don't require a fantasy game that borrows from an Aztec ritual to be 'historically accurate', but fit into the laws of the gameworld and the range of plausibility in our own world. If something fits well enough into both, then it can be a powerful storytelling device because we recognise the tropes from 'real life', but also fits seamlessly into the gameworld.

[Calax]

I think that the laws of the game world being consistent with the expectation with the viewer. Using fallout 3 as an example again, the hooker you meet in megaton made a lot of people annoyed because you pay her for a 'service' and she just lays down beside you... In a franchise known for being more graphic. And in the game itself it seems like most of the women you meet are prostitutes or at least a nOn-exclusive woman taking care of an entire group of men(one of the vampires in f3)

 

As to your "child killing" thing, most games would remove the option by removing or limiting the location of children to non-combat locations. Partly because they would be throttled in the media because its considered amoral to consider anyone under 18 in a more adult light.

That social taboo is also why you find things like xenogears being... Liberally translated (at least three translators quit because of the content) so that it is more acceptable in the markets. Although you are seeing this less and less as the culture around anime keeps widening the hole through which series flow into the other nations with more faithful translations.

 

Well unless you are 4kids entertainment where you turn guns into walkie talkies, rice balls into apples, and booze into applejuice... While thourghly sanatizing any content that might be more violent or mature.

[Cantousent]

I don't really care about nudity in games, although I can see the point about the hooker in the bed. (Why not just fade to black and leave it entirely to the imagination?) Folks don't take showers in their bathing suits unless it's a public shower and they're ashamed of their bods. Not much of an issue for me, but I can see why someone might take issue.

 

I think StarWars' point about small things drawing more out of the player than the big dramatic moments the devs usually use to force emotions. From the very same scenario in PS:T, about which my feeling are entirely identical, to the two skeletons hugging each other in FO3, I think the less in your face moments have evoke much more feeling on my part. ...And it's not all touchy feely either. Of all my companions in video games, the one about whose death I would be most enraged was always my dog in FO.

 

There's also the other side of helping to form your world view by persuasion. You can also sway world view by disagreement. Hasn't anyone here seen an idea expressed in a video game and had nothing but contempt for it? Pushback against ideas help solidify our own, after all, and that's just as important changing someone's mind.

[LadyCrimson]

though as you admit, LC, I'd wager your affections for Boone is an interesting window into how we can latch on to the most unlikely things.

I was thinking more about this, and at the risk of over-analyzing myself (heh) I'd say/agree that it's not game format itself per se that won't involve me emotionally. It's just that most games - that I've personally played - do not have the themes or enough of an uninterrupted storytelling flow to latch onto very strongly. There's also the issue that being chronic-depressive all my life I tend to use games as a way to escape from emotion (outside of laughter - I like to laugh), so I focus on the task/humor stuff and may miss the emotional forest for the trees because I don't look for it/want it...eg takes a lot to get past that to make me notice. How's that? hehe

 

Child-killing or other "no-nos" in games...don't care one way or another, generally speaking. I'm not going to clamor for its inclusion because it doesn't specifically interest me, and if the given scenario offended/repelled me, I wouldn't want to play that game, but I have no issue with a game existing that has it. I don't like censorship on principle, so as long it seems "natural" to the plot/environment/world presented, it won't offend me just because it's there.

 

Also, addition re: nudity: The reason I don't find it entertaining or more immersive is because most of the time such mods are, imo, rather poorly done. At least for the males. Most of the focus of such mods goes towards the females, with lots of energy spent on making their boobs look hi-res fantasy awesome or whatever, but not so much for the males. So instead of immersion I'm jarringly amused at these poorly rendered/textured naked men wandering around. They just look better/less artificial with their clothes still on, so far.

[Starwars]

I think the whole child-killing business bothers me mostly because I think I'm somewhat of a continuity nut when it comes to the "inner rules" of a game. It bothers me that I could kill off everyone in the game world, but the children are immortal. And it bothers me anymore that there is a notion that child-killing is absolutely wrong, but blowing away innocent people is alright as long as they are adult.

 

But I don't think it's even that much about the children in particular, I could count the times I've killed children in the old Fallouts on one hand I think (and that's during the course of a *lot* of replays during the years) it bothered me a lot in Fallout 3 as well that there were certain characters who were unkillable for no reason at all (well, that Bethesda couldn't design the game in a way that allowed for their death of course, but I mean in the context of the game world itself). This is in a game that is supposed to be pretty much about ultimate player freedom. It bothered me a lot in Skyrim also.

 

It does not bother me in well... I dunno, Mass Effect for example because the rules for the game are clear. You can't attack anyone you wish in this game.That's fine. I have no problem with that. But if a game allows me to attack anyone I wish, then clearly I would expect for those NPCs to be able to die also.

[Gorth]

I think the whole child-killing business bothers me mostly because I think I'm somewhat of a continuity nut when it comes to the "inner rules" of a game. It bothers me that I could kill off everyone in the game world, but the children are immortal. And it bothers me anymore that there is a notion that child-killing is absolutely wrong, but blowing away innocent people is alright as long as they are adult.

 

Yeah, Tigs already brought up Little Lamplight. The location that killed Fallout 3 for me and caused it to get uninstalled. When not even the Fatman can kill the little brats and remove that obstacle on my path of progress, I lost interest in the game. There is silly in a fun way and there is insulting the player in a non-fun way.

 

My first (and only) nudie mod was "nude patch" for the original Tombraider. Turned all 15 pixels of her butt into something remotely looking like skin colour

 

Mind you, there wasn't really much internet available to the public at the time and mod scenes were usually limited to usenet and bbs boards.

[Cantousent]

I'm with LC on this one. It's a question of censhorship. I don't figure I'd want to kill children in games, but I resent the hell out of the fact that we can't by reason of censorship. I don't think it does any good, either. As it seems to me, some kids are going to be abused by some adults whether game allow for the depiction of abuse or not. There has to be a damned compelling reason for censorship before we impose it as a society.

 

I don't think it's important that you get emotional at video games, either, LC. The point of video games is to enjoy them in whatever manner you like. That's the same reason I don't care one way or the other about folks 'cheating' in a single player game.

 

As to you, Gorth, remember doom? It had some pretty good mods way before Tombraider. I guess folks just didn't care to see a naked imp nearly as much as the hot chic from the 'raider series. That's conjecture on my part. I've never played one of the games.

[Calax]

As to you, Gorth, remember doom? It had some pretty good mods way before Tombraider. I guess folks just didn't care to see a naked imp nearly as much as the hot chic from the 'raider series. That's conjecture on my part. I've never played one of the games.

Why do I get the feeling somebody might have gone in and re-coded a beholder as a giant floating phallus just for kicks? >.<

 

That said, one of the more interesting things to note is from the opposite end of things. Instead of Japanese/Euro culture infiltrating america as the focus, why not look at america infiltrating Japan? They have an entire subculture based around amping up what they see as "American" culture (nicknamed Yankeii).

[greylord]

I really have no interest in nude mods. I imagine the mother of them all early on wasn't Doom though, it was Duke Nukem. I think i actually heard articles about that one long ago.

 

I think including gratuitious sex or violence in games really doesn't add much normally. In fact sometimes it makes them laughably silly (like DA2 where you hit them in the arm and they explode in a flashbang of blood...or at least some sort of red liquid).

[Orogun01]

Now we can all thanks Tigranes for turning a wholesome, innocent religion thread into a nude mods and sex in games.

 

Edit: Cool, new page. Now we can get back to mythology in games.

Nobody's allowed to retell all those freaky animal sex Greek myths

Edited April 5, 2012 by Orogun01

[zero_or_more]

I'm having a hard time grasping what this topic really is about, but I'll give it another try...

 

I do realize that Grim Fandango has some mexican/aztec themes in it even if I didn't buy any books on their history or anything.

 

Emotional investment doesn't mean that I have to be in love with Meche - or even like her character - it only means I care enough to be interested in the motivations and situations of the characters, and thus ultimately in moving the story forward. This also means that I don't play the game because I want them - Manny and Meche - together so badly or anything like that, instead my investment is the actual understanding of the events and happenings. So entertainment comes not from some kind of gratification, but rather is a result of chaining the events into a coherent and hopefully meaningful story.

 

Obviously this contradicts a more bland, but more 'instantly' rewarding mechanic, or a grinding mechanic where eg. the reward is that you can actually show off in-game how much time you have put into it. However only because there are games using the later mechanics, I don't think it means that the former, story-driven games are somehow less relevant or less rewarding. It's just a matter of preference, I think.

 

And no, playing with a nude patch would have had absolutely no extra value to Grim Fandango. In fact nude patches make just as much sense as advertisements using the female body.

[LadyCrimson]

My first (and only) nudie mod was "nude patch" for the original Tombraider. Turned all 15 pixels of her butt into something remotely looking like skin colour

I remember that. Back then it was like "What? Nude mod? No wai, there's such a thing? Must check it out." Hilarious.

 

Going back to culture somewhat, I remembered that the Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom city build game had me looking up more architecture references, because of the monuments that you could build. Like, I knew of terracotta army figures but I didn't know the history behind them. Or just wondering how/why some of those period structures were built (physical construction and history). Architecture is quite fascinating.