Mass Effect 3

[Volourn]

"I never once said ME3 was a failure financially. I've stated multiple times that we don't know how much it cost to make ME3, and thus only BioWare knows for certain."

 

Then, youa re arguing with the wrong person then.

 

,

 

"though not really enough to justify the ludicrous prive paid by EA for Bioware in the first place."

 

1. ia gree the price paid was ridiculous.

 

2. It is also ridiculous that the pruchase of BIo was just dependent on ME3, but on other proeprties too. Not to mention, almost every new (or EA division) is being turned into BIO.

 

Soo.. EA Sports is gonna be called BIO EA Sports. L0L

[Hurlshort]

I'm ok with that, sports games have basically been RPG's since Sierra released the awesome Front Page Sports series.

[entrerix]

biosports

 

sounds similar to bioshock

 

makes me hope for mutant league football to finally return after all these years

[greylord]

P.S. TW2 has sold elss than 2mil total over its lifetime. You likely lose that bet. L0L

That's PC only, mate. The 360 version was just released, so let's re-evaluate that number again in a couple of months.

 

Yes, 1,3 million units sold in NA is considered a failure by BioWare's/EA's standards, since they are the one who aimed to sell 10 million+ units. Well, they failed.

 

If something like Skyrim can sell 10 million units, then BioWare (self-proclaimed "best RPG developer and story-tellers out there) certainly must reach that target too, no?

 

Except, BioWare doesn't get it. They're stuck in their old ways and that's why they continue to become more and more irrelevant.

 

NO WAY they aimed for 10 million. They only made and shipped out 3.5 million. My math shows that's not even half of 10 million. I'd say they expected around 3.5 million throughout the lifetime of ME3. Any more than 4 million and they'd have to get a reprint/repress just to fill the orders.

 

BioWare has 600+ developers, that's a high burning rate. I've seen dev studios with only 100 devs shut down after they sold 3 million units of their games (Homefront).

 

There's no point in keeping such a huge hog around if you stop innovating and your competitors are speeding ahead of you. I'm not just talking in terms of sales.

 

I think the develpment team was only around 50-60 (I think more precisely around 57) people for ME3.

 

They also have TOr (the big personnel hog) and DA series that they are working on along with...something other stuff.

 

I think we need to get one thing straight immediately. This is probably the only time I will say this: Volourn is right. He may be using made up numbers which completely invalidate his 'ME2 sold 3 million copies r00fles!!! FACT!' shtick but on the important stuff he is right.

 

ME3's sales are very good.

 

Retail only, US only. You can approximately double them for worldwide and digital sales, especially since digital ~ 2 retail copies return wise. So 2 million+ inside a month, and crucially they're sold through copies (so there aren't 100ks sitting around in warehouses), since that is what NPD measures. ME2 sold 1.6 million including digital and PC, worldwide, in a quarter- 3 months- for a direct like to like comparison. It won't reach DAO's numbers but it will certainly outdo either previous ME title by a fair bit given it's already close to their lifetime totals. That's 40+ million in revenue, plenty more than enough to cover the cost of the game, though not really enough to justify the ludicrous prive paid by EA for Bioware in the first place.

 

It ain't Halo or GoW or CoD or GTA numbers, but if you use them as a yardstick for success then there's maybe two successful releases a year and everything else is a failure.

 

Looks like we are on the same page.

 

Whatever happens with ME3's reaction...it's not going to make ME3 a failure. The actual reaction people have had to ME3 and Bio's responses will be seen in their next games. That's the moment of truth. That's when Bio either calls their bluff and finds out all those claiming they won't buy another Bio game unless such and such happens were really bluffing all along...OR Bio get's hit with a slap of reality.

 

Thus far, they've called the DA2 detractor's bluff...except I think a majority were waiting for ME3 and seeing how that turned out. I'd say that now is the true test of whether people are fed up with Bio, are bluffing, or if those complaining are truly a minority like Bio and some others have claimed in the past. IF they are a minority...I expect Bio's next game to sell well, if they are not...and they aren't bluffing about their disappointment...I expect Bio will suddenly have a VERY RUDE awakening next game they release.

Edited April 14, 2012 by greylord

[Volourn]

But... but... in one interview... a bio doc claimed that supreme selling blockbusters cans ell 10 mil and that was their ultimate goal and they had yet to rech that number... so yeah it must explain why ME3 is a fialure but BG isn't despite it not selling 10mil either. But, hey they expected to sell 10mil copies but only shipped 3.5. LOGIC.

[Morgoth]

I think the develpment team was only around 50-60 (I think more precisely around 57) people for ME3.

150. Plus tons of outsourcing.

 

Greg said they desperately wanna reach the big boys one day in terms of sales. Well, good luck with that.

[Morgoth]

But... but... in one interview... a bio doc claimed that supreme selling blockbusters cans ell 10 mil and that was their ultimate goal and they had yet to rech that number... so yeah it must explain why ME3 is a fialure but BG isn't despite it not selling 10mil either. But, hey they expected to sell 10mil copies but only shipped 3.5. LOGIC.

 

Yeah, I mean, what's up with the Bio Docs? Have they maybe, dare I say, become greedy?

[greylord]

I think the develpment team was only around 50-60 (I think more precisely around 57) people for ME3.

150. Plus tons of outsourcing.

 

Greg said they desperately wanna reach the big boys one day in terms of sales. Well, good luck with that.

 

I heard it was 57.

 

around 50+ for ME1

 

54 for ME2

 

and 57 for ME3

 

Oh well....if I'm wrong...that's life.

 

ME3 still sold well enough to turn a profit and be a success for Bio.

 

Of course that isn't counting some of the extras...and I don't count the outsourcing or other people that aren't actually Bio employees...

 

Interns don't count, temps don't count...etc...etc...etc...

Edited April 14, 2012 by greylord

[Morgoth]

You heard wrong, then. Casey said it was around 150 internally, sans external contributions.

[Morgoth]

@ Volourn

 

 

"Hiiihihihihi.....hahhh"

 

 

Alright, it's 03:27, I think I should go to bed. N8.

[greylord]

You heard wrong, then. Casey said it was around 150 internally, sans external contributions.

Source?

 

Ah...wth...it doesn't matter. Regardless of how many they have...I'm thinking they could have only sold a little over a million and still turned a profit. With how many they sold, I think ME3 turned out very well for them.

Edited April 14, 2012 by greylord

[Bos_hybrid]

Anyone willing to take bets on the Witcher2 outselling it ?

 

 

 

It does seem there is some wishful thinking here, and it isn't Volourn doing it. The numbers indicate that , at minimum, ME3 is a solid hit. We typically hear when a title like this fails to meet expectations, so all this speculation is baseless.

 

And irrelevant, any anger over ME3 won't be felt until DA3.

[Volourn]

That's funny. That's exactly what's been said after almost every BIO release since TOB. LMAO

 

BIO haters are gonna ahve to get used to the fact that as long as BIO games are selling millions of copies they ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon. Espciially as long as EA feels the ened to continue to amke every division a BIO division. Heh.

[Zoraptor]

I heard it was 57.

You can both be right, due to pipelining a lot of people doing art/ objects and the like would be moved (to DA3, presumably) once the initial stuff is done. 150 people total working on it over the 2+ years is feasible, but a lot of them would not be on it for anything near the full 2+ years.

[zero_or_more]

By ME2 it was obvious that they weren't so much as making a sequel or spinning an epic tale as revising the formula. ME2 practically ditched all your previous work, giving it a nod at times but really it was a wholly new game that felt to me more like a reboot of ME1.

It was like what Gothic 2 did to Gothic 1. Technically they're a sequel, but really - its the same game with the same plot just polished up.

 

If we agree on that, then its clear that nothing in ME's universe was really established and continuity was never at the forefront of the experience. To expect a coherent outcome out of something that was clearly made up as they went along is a case of misplaced expectations.

 

Plus, its a goddamn blockbuster - just what did you expect?

 

Sorry for the late reply in such a fast moving thread...

 

I think I get what you're saying and I agree that ME2 set a precedent in the writing in this sense. Eg. the turning people into some DNA goo - or what - is just as ridiculous as the 3 color explosions, however this still won't validate the 'expectations' reasoning, imho. Because in the same game, ME2 had an ending where your team lived or died based on previous in-game actions - even if the ending was just a binary destroy-or-not scene. I don't think it was unreasonable to expect a similar mechanic in the sequel.

 

Still, if you're willing to dismiss this expectation of a 'personalized' ending as unreasonable, the introduction of an omnipotent figure in the last 10 seconds of gameplay who talks utter BS is pretty bad in its own right - good comic relief, though.

 

So even without trying to judge the quality of the writing, both of these game elements contradict a mechanic which was both advertised and reinforced in-game as important - so I think the ending do qualifies as bad for this very reason. This is an interactive media, so as a developer I think you should try to make the player feel more relevant, not the exact opposite.

[Gorth]

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