Raithe Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 Well, historically speaking we did have a big claim to the north of France in the last millenia... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
pmp10 Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Well, historically speaking we did have a big claim to the north of France in the last millenia... The ruling dynasty had. Don't confuse that with modern nationalistic bickering.
Gorth Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Well, historically speaking we did have a big claim to the north of France in the last millenia... The ruling dynasty had. Don't confuse that with modern nationalistic bickering. Exactly. It was actually other way around. The French Plantagenets owned all of England “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Raithe Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 We have a knack for absorbing folks into the cultural mish-mash that is England and the UK.. After all, they lived in England, there were.. 15 kings I believe of the line. With the amount of bloodlines mixing in with the aristocracy, you don't think there's still a chunk of the family around?.. Actually I think one of the current Dukes is supposed to be descended from the Plantagenets on the wrong side of the blankets. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Nonek Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 And the dukes and minor nobility of Normandy were descended from Ganga Hrolf (travelling Rolf) and his followers, a rather fiercesome chap who was so successful in his viking raids that the frankish kings bought him off by ceding Normandy to him and his people. A few historians consider the Norman conquests as a continuation of the viking age, the hardy, warlike and vigorous Normanni aristocracy adapting over time. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Bos_hybrid Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 The people there wish to remain under British rule. Nothing else to discuss, Argentina can go cry in the corner.
Darth InSidious Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 Why does anyone even want that island? I'll say this low and slow: You didn't read the rest of my post it seems.. Also this seems to be a touchy subject? but I'm on your guys side, as I said, if the Falkies want to stay with Britain then that's how it should be. My question was more in the area of why this is such a big deal (for Argentina), this didn't seem like a very important piece of land - until I read about the oil The best book I've ever read on that question was Razor's Edge. Hugh Bicheno was an intelligence officer in South America and he argues that basically Argentina is mental. They have a twisted notion of national honour which essentially compells them to scrap over the Falklands even though there's no logical basis for it, the people living there don't want it, and in any case their military isn't up to it. IMO this is the most important discussion we've had on this forum in ages. Because unless international opinion comes down firmly in favour of the islanders' right to decide peacefully where they live then Argentina might try violence. Hundreds if not thousands of lives will be lost. Write to your senator, or president, or witch-doctor and tell them Argentina is being crazy. Personally, I reckon we should use the same sort of illogic that the Argentines do to lay claim to Argentina. It would, at least, put an end to their endless posturing about the Falklands, and Sean Penn could stop looking so stupid. This particularly rapid, unintelligible patter isn't generally heard, and if it is, it doesn't matter.
Walsingham Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Gorth Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Heard about Remagen? “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Calax Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Well, either way, it still doesn't make sense given that the Falklands is across an ocean, and an entire hemisphere. Unless there's some form of "island hegemony" in play. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Nepenthe Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Well, either way, it still doesn't make sense given that the Falklands is across an ocean, and an entire hemisphere. Unless there's some form of "island hegemony" in play. Kind of like Guam, eh? You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Calax Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Well, either way, it still doesn't make sense given that the Falklands is across an ocean, and an entire hemisphere. Unless there's some form of "island hegemony" in play. Kind of like Guam, eh? Is a nearby government saying "It's ours you prick!" to the USA? No? Then no, it's not like Guam. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Gorgon Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? What's going on here. Are you embarassed to admit that your country's past imperial success was largely due to the fact that it was isolated and well protected from incursions from Europe, leaving aside the Normans, or perhaps some antiquated notion of the Commonwealth, you can belong anywhere geographically and still be joined in spirit, that sort of thing. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Malcador Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 IMO this is the most important discussion we've had on this forum in ages. Because unless international opinion comes down firmly in favour of the islanders' right to decide peacefully where they live then Argentina might try violence. Hundreds if not thousands of lives will be lost. Write to your senator, or president, or witch-doctor and tell them Argentina is being crazy. You really think that a second invasion is anywhere near likely ? If Argentina are completely insane, well, you guys can have another expedition followed by an easy whipping of an inferior force, with not a lot of dead on your side. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Raithe Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 What's going on here. Are you embarassed to admit that your country's past imperial success was largely due to the fact that it was isolated and well protected from incursions from Europe, leaving aside the Normans, or perhaps some antiquated notion of the Commonwealth, you can belong anywhere geographically and still be joined in spirit, that sort of thing. So the fact that the islands were originally uninhabited.. that 70% of the population are descended from English, Scots, Welsh... and that nearly 90% of the entire population (including the non-UK descended residents) want to stay as British citizens and do not want to even discuss the idea of Argentina taking sovereignity of the islands have nothing to do with the situation? That's not imperialism, or colonialism. If the people there follow a specific culture, and believe they're a part of it, and they act that way.. and say "hey, this is my flag of choice".. then yeah, I'd say they're fairly joined in spirit. And hey, in two millenia we were invaded by the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Normans... you can't exactly say we didn't suffer incursions. We're just good at absorbing them into the culture.. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Gorgon Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I'm sure they know saber rattling is consequence free aside from diplomatically. Edited February 21, 2012 by Gorgon Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Gorgon Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 What's going on here. Are you embarassed to admit that your country's past imperial success was largely due to the fact that it was isolated and well protected from incursions from Europe, leaving aside the Normans, or perhaps some antiquated notion of the Commonwealth, you can belong anywhere geographically and still be joined in spirit, that sort of thing. So the fact that the islands were originally uninhabited.. that 70% of the population are descended from English, Scots, Welsh... and that nearly 90% of the entire population (including the non-UK descended residents) want to stay as British citizens and do not want to even discuss the idea of Argentina taking sovereignity of the islands have nothing to do with the situation? That's not imperialism, or colonialism. If the people there follow a specific culture, and believe they're a part of it, and they act that way.. and say "hey, this is my flag of choice".. then yeah, I'd say they're fairly joined in spirit. And hey, in two millenia we were invaded by the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Normans... you can't exactly say we didn't suffer incursions. We're just good at absorbing them into the culture.. What's going on here. Are you embarassed to admit that your country's past imperial success was largely due to the fact that it was isolated and well protected from incursions from Europe, leaving aside the Normans, or perhaps some antiquated notion of the Commonwealth, you can belong anywhere geographically and still be joined in spirit, that sort of thing. So the fact that the islands were originally uninhabited.. that 70% of the population are descended from English, Scots, Welsh... and that nearly 90% of the entire population (including the non-UK descended residents) want to stay as British citizens and do not want to even discuss the idea of Argentina taking sovereignity of the islands have nothing to do with the situation? That's not imperialism, or colonialism. If the people there follow a specific culture, and believe they're a part of it, and they act that way.. and say "hey, this is my flag of choice".. then yeah, I'd say they're fairly joined in spirit. And hey, in two millenia we were invaded by the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Normans... you can't exactly say we didn't suffer incursions. We're just good at absorbing them into the culture.. That's kindof where I was going with 'nevermind the Normans' Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Gorgon Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 quote code borked ? Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Nepenthe Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Well, either way, it still doesn't make sense given that the Falklands is across an ocean, and an entire hemisphere. Unless there's some form of "island hegemony" in play. Kind of like Guam, eh? Is a nearby government saying "It's ours you prick!" to the USA? No? Then no, it's not like Guam. So colonialism isn't controlling a foreign territory and not allowing them participation in the democratic process but denying Argentinians oil? Ok. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Calax Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Well, either way, it still doesn't make sense given that the Falklands is across an ocean, and an entire hemisphere. Unless there's some form of "island hegemony" in play. Kind of like Guam, eh? Is a nearby government saying "It's ours you prick!" to the USA? No? Then no, it's not like Guam. So colonialism isn't controlling a foreign territory and not allowing them participation in the democratic process but denying Argentinians oil? Ok. Guam is welcome to join the political process... they have a rep in the senate (among other things) and are relatively autonomous. Federal Taxes collected on the island go to the local government, rather than the Feds. They have enough people that if they they could go and become a state, but they don't want to. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Gorgon Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Well, yes, the US is largely done with its colonial era in the pacific, if you ask around Bikini, the Philipines and Puerto Rico they don't recall it too fondly though. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Nepenthe Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Well, either way, it still doesn't make sense given that the Falklands is across an ocean, and an entire hemisphere. Unless there's some form of "island hegemony" in play. Kind of like Guam, eh? Is a nearby government saying "It's ours you prick!" to the USA? No? Then no, it's not like Guam. So colonialism isn't controlling a foreign territory and not allowing them participation in the democratic process but denying Argentinians oil? Ok. Guam is welcome to join the political process... they have a rep in the senate (among other things) and are relatively autonomous. Federal Taxes collected on the island go to the local government, rather than the Feds. They have enough people that if they they could go and become a state, but they don't want to. Sounds a lot like the Falklands, then. Well, apart from the fact that the representative of Guam is just an observer. Edited February 21, 2012 by Nepenthe You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Gfted1 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Britan would not have a greater claim to Paris than to Glasgow because of..... drumroll.... The channel. As you well know Geography is not merely distance. Military logistics play a factor in most cases. Especially in Europe where everybody has been at war with everybody else at some point. Mountain ranges are natural barriers in Spain and Italy, etc. etc. So countries are like witches. They can't cross water? Well, either way, it still doesn't make sense given that the Falklands is across an ocean, and an entire hemisphere. Unless there's some form of "island hegemony" in play. Kind of like Guam, eh? Is a nearby government saying "It's ours you prick!" to the USA? No? Then no, it's not like Guam. So colonialism isn't controlling a foreign territory and not allowing them participation in the democratic process but denying Argentinians oil? Ok. Guam is welcome to join the political process... they have a rep in the senate (among other things) and are relatively autonomous. Federal Taxes collected on the island go to the local government, rather than the Feds. They have enough people that if they they could go and become a state, but they don't want to. Sounds a lot like the Falklands, then. Well, apart from the fact that the representative of Guam is just an observer. I just wanted in on whats shaping up to be a hell of a quote pyramid. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Calax Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Except that there is no other local government that had control of the land at a time in the recent past demanding the land back Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Malcador Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 So I guess both the British and the US are bad then. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
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