Europe wants the UK to leave the EU

[Humodour]

I wonder if Scotland will join the Eurozone?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16114902

[Morgoth]

I don't think so.

 

After an 11 hour marathon of negotiations, politicians tend to be a bit stressed out and therefor say things that could be perceived as "overreacting". The media though has to take it by word.

[Flouride]

Too bad that we don't have the technology to push the damn isles further into the Atlantic Sea. I'm pretty sure the British would love to be nearer to their true companions the Americans. Win-Win situation if you ask me. Europe gets rid of the arrogant, loud and obnoxious british tourists and British get to be closer to their bffs.

[Raithe]

"Europe is a family where France is the wife, Germany is the husband and Britain is like the jilted suitor standing outside the house shouting: 'your marriage will never work!'"

[Walsingham]

Yes. Because Europe wants to miss out on exports to us, and interaction with all the companies headquartered here.

 

I was reflecting yetserday on how much better off we'd be if we'd built the Commonwealth the way the Euro was built. Right now we'd be in a trade area encompassing India, Nigeria, Australia and Canada. Raw materials and labour, oil, minerals, expanding markets... Instead we decided to gamble on Greece and Italy.

[Junai]

Instead we decided to gamble on Greece and Italy.

The labour government of Norway is ready to step up and use the Government Pension Fund to support the IMF in these times of crisis!

The fact that the population twice voted down Norwegian EU membership, first in 1972 and latest in 1994 - doesn't seem to matter. 4000 EU directives are already implemented.

 

J.

[Walsingham]

Instead we decided to gamble on Greece and Italy.

The labour government of Norway is ready to step up and use the Government Pension Fund to support the IMF in these times of crisis!

The fact that the population twice voted down Norwegian EU membership, first in 1972 and latest in 1994 - doesn't seem to matter. 4000 EU directives are already implemented.

 

J.

 

 

I did not know that. certinly chimes with my general perception that the Great European Project cares diddly squat for democracy.

[Volourn]

L0L The othr WEuropean countries sound buttghurt and like bullies at the same time. They try to intimidate and threaten to get their way. A bunch of hyporitic crybabies whining like little children. WAAAAAAAAA!

[Morgoth]

L0L The othr WEuropean countries sound buttghurt and like bullies at the same time. They try to intimidate and threaten to get their way. A bunch of hyporitic crybabies whining like little children. WAAAAAAAAA!

R00fles!

 

Edit: Just to clarify: Britain has also to show commitment duties, not just veto rights. Why is it Britain always has such a negative, asocial stance towards continental Europe?

Edited December 12, 2011 by Morgoth

[Zoraptor]

Mainly because they don't (and never have) wanted a federalised European Superstate, they want the glorified free trade zone they signed up to. Given the direction of Europe no one with any sense would want a European Superstate. The Euro has problems! Damn the Torpedoes! Full Steam Ahead! The Square Peg can fit in the Round Hole if you just Hit It Hard Enough! You cannot stop your ships from sinking by tethering the half that are sinking to the half that aren't, you'll just end up sinking everyone.

 

I don't like Cameron at all, but he was absolutely right that it would not be in the UK's best interests to sign up, even if some of the provisions are eminently sensible.

[Raithe]

It does seem to hammer home that the European Union doesn't really give a damn about democracy.

 

Everyone who has pushed the Euro here has ignored the calls for referendum here on it, because the majority don't want it. And it's getting freaking annoying to have a number of legislation come about because of some non-voted in bureaucrats in Europe.

 

It just feels like it's all about building a bureaucracy that runs everything rather then a form of government in which you can have some say.

[Morgoth]

calls for referendum here on it, because the majority don't want it.

So you wanna have the uninformed, politically and economically illiterate and non-enlightened people that change their mind like from one minute to another depending who's right-wing party currently talks the smoothest way, you want those people let decide over the fate and future of the EU?

 

Sure thing.

[Calax]

Either way Britan only KIND OF accepted the EU. After all, they still have the Pound as one of their primary forms of currency even though they're technically supposed to be on the Euro.

[Raithe]

calls for referendum here on it, because the majority don't want it.

So you wanna have the uninformed, politically and economically illiterate and non-enlightened people that change their mind like from one minute to another depending who's right-wing party currently talks the smoothest way, you want those people let decide over the fate and future of the EU?

 

Sure thing.

 

Gee, while I tend to agree on the whole view of the masses...

 

That's the way a freaking democracy is meant to work.

 

Edit: Besides, half the people who make up the EU buraucracy don't exactly strike me as that enlightened or economically literate. More in the vein of power-brokers, building up of influence and generally trying to establish their own personal fiefdoms.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Raithe

[Humodour]

Britain should just leave the EU and stop poisoning it. They can successfully coexist with it like Switzerland does.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Krezack

[Walsingham]

Considering we are the second biggest contributor to the EU budget (according to PMQ today) you'd think we'd get a bit more credit. Are we poisoning the EU by objecting to a plan which even supporters of Europe are saying won't solve the problem and may even be illegal? Are we poisoning the EU when we observe that democracy cannot be ridden over roughshood to save a currency whose architecture is _proven_ not to work?

 

A free trade area where we celebrate our shared culture, and collaborate to avoid war is a truly beautiful thing. A superstate whose nameless officials dictate national policy over democratically elected assemblies is a monstrosity.

 

I put it to you that we are, by our economic weight and democratic insistence, saving the EU dream from becoming a nightmare.

[Volourn]

"So you wanna have the uninformed, politically and economically illiterate and non-enlightened people that change their mind like from one minute to another depending who's right-wing party currently talks the smoothest way, you want those people let decide over the fate and future of the EU?"

 

Yeha, because those in power are doing a bang up job at the moment?

 

Then again, European countries are just a bunch of losers who cry when they don't get their way.

[Raithe]

The other side of it, is that the UK actually enforces the legislation from the EU within our own country. While it pretty much seems that the majority of other countries have a very laissez-faire attitude to whether they pay any real attention to them.

 

So , yeah, I wonder why we tend to have a slightly more jaundiced view of whats going on with it all/

[Calax]

I don't know exactly how the EU works, but it seems like, if they ever wanted a prayer of working, they needed to be able to control all the economies and have the same economic laws and powers in every member state. Which would be that Euro superstate. The reason they're in trouble now is because the money is only as strong as the weakest link... Greece.

[Gorth]

The reason they're in trouble now is because the money is only as strong as the weakest link... Greece.

Nah, the reason they are in trouble is because a number of countries went into the treaties with different expectations. France and Germany sought "stability" and economic growth (financial imperialism) through disciplined economics. A number of Mediterranean countries saw it as an easy way to suckle at the teats of the ECB while lining their own pockets through corruption and money diversion. Scandinavia and England never trusted the entire "United Europe" concept and decided not wanting to be assimilated in the steam rolling German money machine nor the sourthern black hole where money mysteriously disappear in alarming quantities.

[Walsingham]

I don't know exactly how the EU works, but it seems like, if they ever wanted a prayer of working, they needed to be able to control all the economies and have the same economic laws and powers in every member state. Which would be that Euro superstate. The reason they're in trouble now is because the money is only as strong as the weakest link... Greece.

 

A lot of people said that as far back as the eighties. ...That I know of. Probably earlier.

 

In general I'm quite a fan of not codifying everything and just winging it. But you can't base a currency on that basis!

[Calax]

Well, that's kinda what happens when you look. They don't have the control that each individual state has. If they had that control, the med states couldn't have lined their pockets, and started to bring it crashing down that fast. To me it's sort of like gun control, you have to go all or nothing because if you do it half way you end up with serious issues.

 

A Euro super state couldn't work. There's to much diversity and national pride to actually make it into one big state. Thus you can't have one giant currency because the various stats just don't have the controls to deal with parasitic states.

[Zoraptor]

I think a Euro superstate could work in theory, but would have required a quantum leap from having the Mark/ Franc/ Guilder/ Drachma straight to having a genuine fiscal union with proper, and enforceable, rules and supervision rather than the half way hodge podge that actually came. As below, nobody really wanted strong enforcement at the time as they all wanted the ability to break the rules. Now, they're in a far more weak position fundamentally and trying to bolt the door after the horse has bolted.

 

The reason they're in trouble now is because the money is only as strong as the weakest link... Greece.

France and Germany sought "stability" and economic growth (financial imperialism) through disciplined economics.

 

The first part is certainly true, but France and Germany hardly used disciplined economics- they happily broke the established Euro rules themselves when it suited them.

[Gorth]

The first part is certainly true, but France and Germany hardly used disciplined economics- they happily broke the established Euro rules themselves when it suited them.

It's good to be the king

 

Edit to add: Generally speaking (as in a lot of exceptions exist), the Germans sought hegemony through hard work and concerted efforts, the French thought they would have it, but not sure how to accomplish it, so they might just piggy-back it on the Germans (while sticking out their tongues and wagging them at the English). The rest wasn't really interested in ideals. Not a lot of trust amongst European countries and they tend to gang up on who is currently the "dominant" one. Nothing's really changed the last 2000 years.

[Morgoth]

Nobody wants an European superstate, and it would be a huge mistake to model such an entity after, say the USA.

 

Europes strength lies in it's diversity, but there needs to be stronger coordination on the financial sector, more common legislation i.e. Energy, Human rights etc., but the last thing you want is centralization, 'cause centralization is always prone to lots of corruption (see USA).

 

Then again, European countries are just a bunch of losers who cry when they don't get their way.

Volo, stop being an idiot now. We all know you have a minority complex towards Europeans, no need to exhibit your butthurt so blatantly.