Piracy

[greylord]

If this is true, best DRM ever - http://www.destructoid.com/ubisoft-drm-all...re-219823.phtml

That's pretty much the case with majority of activation-based DRM.

Change enough components and you need to reactivate.

 

I haven't bought a UBI game for PC since I got the PS3. In fact they were a major motivator to move to PS3 due to DRM they put on their PC games. Then when doing searches on game info I found that it appears on the internet (already knew this was big in Asia via hardcopies) that pirated Console games is even bigger than pirated PC games. You simply download the game and burn an iso to disk and play on a cracked PS3.

 

I have NO desire to infect my PS3 with viruses or whatever else they have in those iso's/games, nor do I have a blu-ray burner to do so...but it's eye opening what's available for consoles on the internet. I also think it speaks volumes of the stupidity that goes towards blaming piracy for killing the PC game market. It obviously didn't kill the console market, in fact I'd say the console market has gone up in relation to the PC market.

 

No, what killed the Main big games in the PC market (I'd say Indies are doing better though) was the draconian DRM measures that drove PC gamers like me to the consoles (and I'm only a part way console player...I still play games on PC...just nothing UBI).

[Gorth]

No, what killed the Main big games in the PC market (I'd say Indies are doing better though) was the draconian DRM measures that drove PC gamers like me to the consoles (and I'm only a part way console player...I still play games on PC...just nothing UBI).

I think it's a bit too simple to blame DRM for the "death" of PC gaming. It had it's moment of glory in a window of opportunity where the hardware was good enough and widespread enough to support a number of titles released each year. Nothing lasts forever though and while PC hardware is still superior (on paper), you have the problem of compatibility and a very large segment of pc owners who are neither tech savvy nor keep up with the technological arms race. Enter stage left, the closed platform, which takes the headache of updates and maintenance away from tech illiterates. That then leads to games aimed at the new, larger market with all its implications. Hardware that is inferior to a geeks highend Ferrari PC, but probably better and way more stable than the bulk of the Trabants running in large parts of the market. Games that are tailored to this new hardware, with controllers, limited memory etc. which for a some may seem inferior but for most people seems adequate.

 

"The birth cry of The Console Gamer created the immense Warp rift called the Eye of Terror and slew most of the PC Gamers and their favourite Developers in the Immaterium"

[pmp10]

I also think it speaks volumes of the stupidity that goes towards blaming piracy for killing the PC game market. It obviously didn't kill the console market, in fact I'd say the console market has gone up in relation to the PC market.

We discussed this before - console piracy is not on the same scale as PC piracy.

And that's largely because it's far more complicated and carries greater consequences.

[Hurlshort]

Kick butt consoles are what is killing the PC industry. Blaming DRM is a weak argument.

 

That being said, I think the PC market is in a great place. We still have major PC only releases, and I can't think of many titles worth playing that didn't get released on the PC as well as consoles.

[Maria Caliban]

For 90% of the games I buy, I don't really think about the DRM. I'm of the opinion that most PC gamers are indifferent to whatever DRM is used. Like many things, people only care when it causes them trouble, and even then, if you're a PC gamer, you're probably used to some amount of trouble when it comes to playing games.

 

Keeping my drivers up to date, making sure my hardware is suitable, turning off post-processing for the Kingdoms of Alumar: Reckoning demo, playing Batman: AC in Direct X 9 because Direct X 10 was broken, opening up my audio devices and changing from Quadraphonic to 5.1 for my 'speakers' for Skyrim, and keeping up with patches to see if I want to use them or they'll break something... for me, it's all part of the overhead of PC gaming. DRM tends to be one more thing on a pile of things.

[Walsingham]

I for one certainly care what is used.

 

I simply won't buy any Ubisoft products I've had so much of a problem with their DRM.

 

Bioware annoyed the crap out of me with their whole customer control strategy, but I'm more sanguine about their performance otherwise.

[Hassat Hunter]

We discussed this before - console piracy is not on the same scale as PC piracy.

And that's largely because it's far more complicated and carries greater consequences.

Then you've never been to the Netherlands. Console piracy is probably way bigger than PC piracy.

And yes, it really is as simple as burning a disc. The risk for virusses and malware is smaller than downloading PC titles. Those are just arguments made in ignorance.

Then again, we're pretty advanced when it comes to tech.

 

(Although I swear loyalty to the PC, never liked console gaming. A PC is not as expensive as a console, TV and TV-subscription, which only still gives utter crap (not to mention you still need a PC then for the webs and stuff).

[Transcendent Prosper]

How does an old Chinese computer, undoubtedly powered by rice, run todays modern games? Wait, it doesnt. So they have the money to keep a current rig, electricity and internet connection but the one thing that cant be afforded is the product? Pathetic excuses are pathetic.

 

a missionary from my church once told me that only half of dozen single-player pc games got published in china every year and most of them is either from japan or homemade jrpg. so you can only buy all-new second-hand games from homeland ebay-like platforms and get screwed by dlc schemes e.g. batman arkham city, or buy from digitial distributors when concerned publishers don't enforce regional restriction (whose number grow considerably, including last year sega, 2K, batman arkham city and now even kingdoms of amalur).

 

in similar way, you can only buy smuggled xbox or ps since sony's scheme of disgusing ps3 as multimedia product failed under the scrunity of the keen eyes of chinese officials and businessmen. nintendo broke through the barrier by using a front company registered in china and sponsored by abc organization from america. but only a dozen of games released on respective platform.

 

one reason is that china has become the paradise of mmo, especially so-called free ones. south korean and russian have realized this truth. if china takes over world games industry, only indie single-player games have the inherent ability to survive.

 

another reason is the games are considered as a cultural weapon similar to movies.

[Pidesco]

We discussed this before - console piracy is not on the same scale as PC piracy.

And that's largely because it's far more complicated and carries greater consequences.

 

 

Most consoles in Portugal, and I'm guessing this is true for the rest of Europe, are modded to allow to play pirated games. I think the piracy issue, like everything video gaming related, have always been looked at from an overly American perspective. Most publishers seem to talk like the American market is the only that exists.

 

Also, from my experience, as far as console gaming is concerned, there are two main types of console gamers in Portugal: people who pirate everything they play; and people who know one guy who owns a lot of games, legally or illegally, and lends those games to everyone else. these two groups compose almost all console hardcore gamers.

 

One other observation, is about the people that actually buy games but aren't hardcore. These people buy football games, movie tie in games, party games, and military shooters. They generally buy nothing else.

[pmp10]

Most consoles in Portugal, and I'm guessing this is true for the rest of Europe, are modded to allow to play pirated games.

The point isn't that there isn't console piracy but that it's not worth it for many people.

There is also no guarantee that it will even be still possible next console generation.

[Pidesco]

Most consoles in Portugal, and I'm guessing this is true for the rest of Europe, are modded to allow to play pirated games.

The point isn't that there isn't console piracy but that it's not worth it for many people.

There is also no guarantee that it will even be still possible next console generation.

 

The only reason there isn't a guarantee of that is because time travel is still not possible.

[pmp10]

Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.

This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.

[sorophx]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16616803

[WDeranged]

It's looking positive, just as long as they don't come back next year and steamroll through re-branded versions of the bills

[Orchomene]

Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.

This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.

 

It's absurd. Everything may be cracked. It's a common cryptography issue. Globally, everything engineered can be retro engineered.

So, of course, next generation consoles will certainly be cracked. The only variable is the time people will have to wait to obtain such crack.

[pmp10]

Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.

This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.

 

It's absurd. Everything may be cracked.

But that takes serious skills and commitment.

Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.

Just look as PS3 - it remains uncracked and piracy on it was impossible for years.

And that's despite the fact that Sony was embarrassingly lax with their security.

[sorophx]

I am fairly sure PS3 had been cracked at some point in the past?

[pmp10]

Hackers made many grandiose claims over their PS3 "cracking".

Reality is they enabled piracy for most of games out by then but soon got locked out with firmware revisions.

 

It's not that good of a example as the need was simply not there due to 360 but the my point still stands - sufficiently advanced hardware can make cracking too hard or at least too annoying for a homebrew piracy.

[Hassat Hunter]

Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.

Not really. Most do it publically, just to get money from people who want their console modified. Which are a lot in Europe.

[pmp10]

Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.

Not really. Most do it publically, just to get money from people who want their console modified. Which are a lot in Europe.

I meant those that develop tools and methods to hack the hardware.

[greylord]

Or it may turn out that next generation consoles won't be cracked.

This generation console piracy wasn't treated very seriously by the designers but that may change.

 

It's absurd. Everything may be cracked.

But that takes serious skills and commitment.

Most crackers are in it for the glory and when faced with real challenge they go for easier targets.

Just look as PS3 - it remains uncracked and piracy on it was impossible for years.

And that's despite the fact that Sony was embarrassingly lax with their security.

 

 

WTH are you talking about. The PS3 has actually been cracked for years. IN fact the ONLY way to play the pirated stuff from what I understand is to actually CRACK the PS3...aka..it's not really a crack, more like enabling it via a certain OS update on it with a backdoor or something that disables the DRM or something...hence you can play PS3 games you d/l from the net. Never actually did it, but I see the disks in the stores and they even sell the cracked PS3's in some places.

 

It's sort of funny though, if they haven't fully cracked a game and you buy it, they'll say bring it back in a month and we'll replace it with a new and improved version. I didn't buy the game (I like to buy my games from US stores normally gamestop, which to my knowledge is typically all legit), but I have friends who do when we travel...when he was told that comment it cracked me up. There's nothing more than something like that to admit open piracy at the store...and this is out in the open in what appears to be a typical electronics store in the marketplace.

 

Console Piracy is HUGE in many places in Asia and elsewhere. Dwarf's PC piracy by a hundred fold. Games cost $5 for new releases, and overall sometimes it's hard to actually find a legit copy.

 

My downfall is since I travel I try to find cross region DVD players. I'll buy the movie in one area...and look for solutions to play it in another. For example, I'll get a lot of movies from Britain, but I can't play them in the US. So I search high and low for US DVD players which are region free (I think my PS3 is actually region free already, I think Sony did this, but I actually rarely use my PS3 as a movie player, using an actual Movie player to play movies). I have played British releases on the PS3 (Agarest War: Generations of War for example, though I think that particular game is also available for d/l via PSN in the US, I have the hardcopy disk from Britain) which means it's probably region free.

 

However, the way things go, even though I ALREADY OWN the movie (and maybe they'd apply it to the PS3 games as well, but I doubt it, as I said, I think the PS3 was made region free in an update a while ago for this specific reason among others) and PAID for it legally, I wonder if these evil companies would consider that piracy?

 

I also use a program that scans my DVD's (bought legitimately) to transfer them to my Ipod...as I do more movie watching via my Iphone than on TV these days...that means I actually BOUGHT THE movie already...just looking for means to transfer it to Ipod/Iphone format instead. I'm not sharing it with anyone, it's something I already own that I'm putting in a different format (though I DO appreciate many recent releases having that already on the disk so I just have to pop it in the computer and transfer it digitally to my Iphone/Ipod...makes things MUCH EASIER). Is that piracy?

 

I can guarantee if they consider either of those piracy that they lost NO sales from it, though if they prosecuted they'd probably halt my support of whatever company they worked from (hence lost sales in that way...just like Ubi lost my sales to their PC division...though ironically I suppose that means they GAINED sales to their console division) [clarification, I have NEVER been prosecuted by UBI nor had I any legal complications with them, I switched due to their DRM schemes and thus my example with them of losing my PC sales due to their actions of anti-piracy...which didn't GAIN THEM any sales...just lost them sales instead].

 

Anyways, as I was reading an article in this thread posted above on Andrew Crossley and it linked to another thing that occurred just recently.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16642369

 

Looks like that some sort of file sharing company bites the dust. Is this company really that big?

 

It says it's called Megaupload? And the people are in New Zealand? Wow the US has a broad reach to be arresting foreign citizens now. How is that done?

 

I'm not certain what I think on this...interesting that the BBC connects this arrest and closing to the Wikipedia and SOPA protests. I don't think that these are connected in anyway...so unsure why the news connected them...or is that the US trying to connect them to try to justify SOPA still. If this is their justification with the ability to go and arrest anyone in the world regardless of citizenship...I'm thinking perhaps it's suddenly a world concern and not just a US one?

Edited January 19, 2012 by greylord

[pmp10]

WTH are you talking about. The PS3 has actually been cracked for years.

No it wasn't.

The best that could be done until few months ago were illegal emulators written for Linux that ended with it's removal.

 

IN fact the ONLY way to play the pirated stuff from what I understand is to actually CRACK the PS3...aka..it's not really a crack, more like enabling it via a certain OS update on it with a backdoor or something that disables the DRM or something...hence you can play PS3 games you d/l from the net. Never actually did it, but I see the disks in the stores and they even sell the cracked PS3's in some places.

 

Actually no it isn't.

That may be the case now but not long ago it was possible to switch PS3 into factory/developer mode and run games from hard drive.

That method required no changes to the console and IIRC enabled further development of custom firmware leading which enabled piracy until firmware patches.

[greylord]

WTH are you talking about. The PS3 has actually been cracked for years.

No it wasn't.

The best that could be done until few months ago were illegal emulators written for Linux that ended with it's removal.

 

IN fact the ONLY way to play the pirated stuff from what I understand is to actually CRACK the PS3...aka..it's not really a crack, more like enabling it via a certain OS update on it with a backdoor or something that disables the DRM or something...hence you can play PS3 games you d/l from the net. Never actually did it, but I see the disks in the stores and they even sell the cracked PS3's in some places.

 

Actually no it isn't.

That may be the case now but not long ago it was possible to switch PS3 into factory/developer mode and run games from hard drive.

That method required no changes to the console and IIRC enabled further development of custom firmware leading which enabled piracy until firmware patches.

 

My mistake. I'd call it a crack, but I guess it doesn't match what some call a crack. It still allowed people to play pirated games regardless however. If it didn't, then there'd be no reason why they've been selling the pirated PS3 games on the markets for so long or had them available for d/l online.

 

As I said, I actually never tried the pirated games myself (friends did) so I have no actual experience running or trying to run any of the Pirated games or how it was done (though I have run games from other regions, but as I said, I think that's allowed by the PS3 OS and that it's now region free), so it's from that perspective.

 

So, whether it's running it in factory/developer mode or whatever, that it allows you to play pirated games to me seemed to be a crack. Not an expert in pirating, as I suppose is apparant by my terminology, probably since I don't technically pirate (from my definition, though the definitions are cloudy these days...is putting a movie I already own and transferring it via a program onto my Ipod piracy? Or is playing PS3 games I legally buy from other regions across the world Piracy?)

Edited January 19, 2012 by greylord

[Spider]

I also use a program that scans my DVD's (bought legitimately) to transfer them to my Ipod...as I do more movie watching via my Iphone than on TV these days...that means I actually BOUGHT THE movie already...just looking for means to transfer it to Ipod/Iphone format instead. I'm not sharing it with anyone, it's something I already own that I'm putting in a different format (though I DO appreciate many recent releases having that already on the disk so I just have to pop it in the computer and transfer it digitally to my Iphone/Ipod...makes things MUCH EASIER). Is that piracy?

 

Perhaps not piracy, but illegal in many places. Many countries (and I belive the US for instance, Sweden for sure) has laws that prohibit circumvention of DRM. So if the DVDs are protected in some way (which I believe all DVDs are, could be wrong about that though), copying them is illegal.

[greylord]

I also use a program that scans my DVD's (bought legitimately) to transfer them to my Ipod...as I do more movie watching via my Iphone than on TV these days...that means I actually BOUGHT THE movie already...just looking for means to transfer it to Ipod/Iphone format instead. I'm not sharing it with anyone, it's something I already own that I'm putting in a different format (though I DO appreciate many recent releases having that already on the disk so I just have to pop it in the computer and transfer it digitally to my Iphone/Ipod...makes things MUCH EASIER). Is that piracy?

 

Perhaps not piracy, but illegal in many places. Many countries (and I belive the US for instance, Sweden for sure) has laws that prohibit circumvention of DRM. So if the DVDs are protected in some way (which I believe all DVDs are, could be wrong about that though), copying them is illegal.

 

DRM on DVDs? Pretty poor DRM. All I have to do is put it in the computer, copy the file and then render it into a format the IPhone can read. I thought DRM didn't let you do that type of stuff. I literally don't hack the DVD or anything like that. It's a simple put it in the DVD drive, via Windows 7 or XP, and drag and drop the file into my videos folder and then render it and put it in iTunes. Actually I can play it on Itunes without even dragging it to the desktop, and even supposedly transfer it to the Ipod, but it doesn't actually transfer unless I render the files into an mp4 or format that it can read.

 

Edit: If that's bypassing the DRM, since it's done via Windows, I'd imagine it's Windows OS that enables the bypass, even if it's done innocently...does that mean Win7 is a big offender on the piracy front by definition then? It would be the actual item bypassing the DRM in reality, since I have no idea how to actually bypass DRM normally. Microsoft willfully creating a way for people unknowingly to bypass DRM... Now that's a wierd thought. Anyways on with my original thought.

 

Plus, it's for personal use only and I'm using it that way instead of the DVD if I put it on the Iphone or Ipod. They consider that illegal in some places? Talk about draconian.

Edited January 19, 2012 by greylord