London Riots

[Hassat Hunter]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/amaz...sales-list.html

LOL.

Holy crap, sales of the aluminum bat are up a staggering 6,541%! Awesome. Now the UK police are REALLY outmatched.

Or the london people are going to use them against the looters, seeing the LACK of "excessive force" from the Police. Which may cause the violence to rise even further.

This is the kind of people we're dealing with..

Bleeding riot boy helped then robbed by passers-by

 

Rubber bullets and tear-gas plz..

Yeah, I already posted that vid before in this thread.

It's odd the police is blamed for "excessive force"... what the hell are they waiting for then?

But maybe this indeed is a statement of 'If you don't want us to be pro-active, this is what happens' so London increases their priviledges. In that case the Tottenhammers only reach the opposite of their goal. Not that the current rioteers share that goal anyways...

[WDeranged]

But maybe this indeed is a statement of 'If you don't want us to be pro-active, this is what happens' so London increases their priviledges. In that case the Tottenhammers only reach the opposite of their goal. Not that the current rioteers share that goal anyways...

 

I did ponder that, it seems very odd that the police appear so impotent during this.

[Orogun01]

But maybe this indeed is a statement of 'If you don't want us to be pro-active, this is what happens' so London increases their priviledges. In that case the Tottenhammers only reach the opposite of their goal. Not that the current rioteers share that goal anyways...

 

I did ponder that, it seems very odd that the police appear so impotent during this.

Not so much when you actually count the amount of policemen; we actually held them in a regard that its higher than what they really are. I guess they are measuring ways to dissolve this without use of extreme force, god knows that we would eat them alive for that. Even though its exactly how we would react when facing an army of raving thugs.

[Tale]

Maybe they should get roaving groups of police commandos, running around behind the lines of the riots, looking for looters to hit with bean bags.

 

That'd make a fun game.

[Krookie]

HA! so you brits DO like baseball!

[Malcador]

I'd have thought they'd have used cricket bats, wonder which one is more damaging.

[Raithe]

HA! so you brits DO like baseball!

 

No, we like baseball bats...

 

 

Remember, we don't do guns.

 

Bats, clubs and sharp, bladed instruments.. them we do.

 

Edit: And cricket bats do work nicely..but are a little unwieldy for certain swings if you don't know what you're doing.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Raithe

[Malcador]

Hm maybe, have got good results out of bashing a cousin with the edge. Baseball bat would probably hurt more, I guess.

[Gorgon]

So, it looks like the police shooting was unjustified, at least their stories don't ad up with the ballistics report. Doesn't excuse anything, but it does suggest why the first protest would end in violence.

[Tale]

The deceased did have a gun, so I don't know that I'd say it wasn't justified. He just never fired it.

[Gorgon]

but the cops said he did

[Tale]

but the cops said he did

Correct. Which means they either lied or were mistaken. It does not mean that they were not justified. It does raise doubts.

 

Unless you firmly believe that an armed suspect must be allowed to fire first.

[Raithe]

I guess it's one of those things.. if you know the subject of the arrest is a potentially violent person..and they're holding a gun.. and suddenly there's some sharp noise that sounds like a gunshot.. Would you take the time to make sure it was him, or would you decide to shoot him to make sure no civilian / fellow police officer is hurt?

 

There are swings and roundabouts to both sides of that argument...

[Drowsy Emperor]

At this point in time that is wholly irrelevant.

[Raithe]

At this point in time that is wholly irrelevant.

 

True. Even the family of the guy who was killed are saying they're shocked and surprised by the riots and wished that the civil unrest wasn't happening.

[Gorgon]

well, it immediately raises the question of why they lied. as you suggested merely raising or brandishing a weapon could have been cause enough, so it seems less likely that that was what happened. you can count on the police involved to be acutely aware of the rules of engagement involving deadly force, and if they felt compelled to to lie that makes it likely that the shooting was unjustified.

[Hurlshort]

Or they didn't lie and were mistaken. In fact I don't know why they would lie here, they have to know that a simple test would prove them wrong.

[Raithe]

well, it immediately raises the question of why they lied. as you suggested merely raising or brandishing a weapon could have been cause enough, so it seems less likely that that was what happened. you can count on the police involved to be acutely aware of the rules of engagement involving deadly force, and if they felt compelled to to lie that makes it likely that the shooting was unjustified.

 

The question is if they lied or if they were mistaken. As I said, if you're going after a known armed criminal, and he happens to be holding a gun.. If you hear what sounds like a gunshot, you'll probably take a shot at him.

 

Okay, so it turns out afterwards when they do the after action report he didnt, but you thought he did, you'll report what you perceived even if it ends up that you were wrong.

 

I'm just saying it doesn't automatically mean they were lying.

 

Edit: and remember, the armed police over here have to go through a ridiculous amount of psychological testing and other assorted testing before they get on the armed response squads. It's pretty much one of those "if you ask to get on it, you'll be turned down" type of career options in the police.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Raithe

[WDeranged]

Looks like it's kicking off in Manchester tonight.

 

*edit*

 

 

That's some swanky Judge Dredd style riot gear they've got on, the Batman logo on the shoulder pad is a nice touch too.

Edited August 9, 2011 by WDeranged

[Drowsy Emperor]

We call our own ninja turtles, they've got thicker, spiny armor.

[Hassat Hunter]

Unless you firmly believe that an armed suspect must be allowed to fire first.

Han shot first!

 

I suppose I am too much of a geek for having that as first thought reading this.

But yeah, the event with the shooting is completely irrelevant now. It was already on day 2 (if not 1 itself perhaps even).

 

I doubt they call in an armed arrest unit for taking in a peaceful civilian. And no-one denies he was a gangster.

These kind of investigations take time. Anyone who imagines it can be solved so quickly is a fool or "intentionally" 'oblivious', as our rioteers are...

[Nepenthe]

Would I be wrong in stating that "gangster holding a gun gets shot by police" wouldn't even be news in a sizeable part of the world, never mind the sparking for riots? I don't think even the Police RoE generally require you to be shot at to allowed to pull the trigger. IMO just an excuse to one-up the French from last year.

 

Glad I got that big tv while I still had a lucrative job. When I'm an unemployed ll.d. I'll only have to steal the booze.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Calax]

Would I be wrong in stating that "gangster holding a gun gets shot by police" wouldn't even be news in a sizeable part of the world, never mind the sparking for riots? I don't think even the Police RoE generally require you to be shot at to allowed to pull the trigger. IMO just an excuse to one-up the French from last year.

Not in my experiance. I think the rule is that if the officer feels they (or others) are in imminent mortal danger from their suspect, they are allowed to shoot. Well, that's if you boil it down to it's bare bones.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Are the riots spreading and intensifying or are they dying down?

[Raithe]

Well over the course of last night Copycats kicked off in Manchester, and some in Birmingham and Nottingham as well as some continuation within London.

 

But from what I've heard it's not so much angry rioters as again, groups of yobs trying to take advantage of the public worry and general sense of chaos.

 

They had a bit over 16,000 police in London and a few armoured vehicles patrolling the streets. The rumours of potential Army involvement keep spinning around.

 

Oh, and of course now there are the conspiracy theorists at work, trying to suggest that a lot of the rioting/looting done by masked individuals isn't so much as criminals but black-ops agents of the evil government as a means of building an excuse to "repress the poor".

 

The fact that a group of looters knocked over a fancy dress store to steal masks to wear when they hit some shops down the street apparently got ignored by the people who started that one up...