People expect too much

[Raikiri123]

That's what I think about the reaction of fans towards this game. They've always wanted DS3 to be like its predecessor and other dungeon crawlers: hours of maniacal mouse clicking and potion pumping and those that stay on the computer long enough is the winner. Really! Many failed to see the innovation and improvement of this game comparing to the classic dungeon crawlers. The combat system now prevents tanking and mindless button slamming and forces player to pay more attention to strategies. The proficiency system makes the game even more varied and 1 character can follow many different paths, not just 1 or 2 sub-classes. In the old dungeon crawlers, if you make a wrong move in investing point, you're screwed, your character will be slug weak (know what I mean). And you'd have to choose a specific weapon to start and change of weapon mid-game affect your character a lot. However, it is necessary in DS3 to change weapon (here we have stances) in order to adapt to different situations. The game presents a battleground where U win by skill, rather than by good gears or level. Also on the story, many say it's linear and the characters have no depth. This is quite right. But since when did people expect dungeon crawlers to have an excellent story and deep characters like those of Assassin Creed, P.of Persia, GoW...? Isn't game like these are supposed to be slaughtering mobs, moving from 1 town to another,kill more mobs, equip you character with the most expensive gears...? There are hardly any good story in the history of dungeon crawlers, and DS3's is not to blame.

 

One mistake I think the developers made was naming this game Dungeon Siege. This may sound weird, but the name Dungeon Siege just make hardcore fans of DS1,2 raise their expectations even higher, thus refuse to accept DS3 the way it is. In my point of view, this game is more of the Jade Empire style, not Diablo or Torchlight, or any ARPGs. People who whined and said that Torchlight is better than DS3 clearly didn't think carefully before they spoke. Torchlight is a mishmash copy derived from Diablo and Fate. There are simply no originality, the story has few speeches and more linear than anything I've ever seen. People just love Torchlight because they think it's like Diablo the legend. Torchlight is loved rather for the resemblance to Diablo. Had DS3 been named something else, and the game had been longer, It'd have been recognized for its good things.

 

This argument may be clumsy, but that's what I think, and many else as well, about the complaints and attack on the game. Stop living in the past, people. DS3 is new, is fun, and is worth being praised for. Please don't bash me if you disagree, I'd like to hear your opinion as well.

[MonkeyLungs]

That's what I think about the reaction of fans towards this game. They've always wanted DS3 to be like its predecessor and other dungeon crawlers: hours of maniacal mouse clicking and potion pumping and those that stay on the computer long enough is the winner.

 

A sequel more like its previous games? That is an odd request. This game has plenty of mouse clicking/button mashing as well. I would prefer continuous input to this cheap attempt at action combat. It's about as in depth as Double Dragon.

 

Really! Many failed to see the innovation and improvement of this game comparing to the classic dungeon crawlers. The combat system now prevents tanking and mindless button slamming and forces player to pay more attention to strategies.

 

Dodge rolling truly is an amazing innovation in combat mechanics.

 

The proficiency system makes the game even more varied and 1 character can follow many different paths, not just 1 or 2 sub-classes. In the old dungeon crawlers, if you make a wrong move in investing point, you're screwed, your character will be slug weak (know what I mean). And you'd have to choose a specific weapon to start and change of weapon mid-game affect your character a lot. However, it is necessary in DS3 to change weapon (here we have stances) in order to adapt to different situations.

 

So according to you DS3 has a really in depth character system that offers more choice than "older dungeon crawlers"? What dungeon crawlers are you referring to here? Did you know that DS1 and DS2 had much more in depth character systems?

 

 

The game presents a battleground where U win by skill, rather than by good gears or level.

 

Yeah its lame when RPG's make stats and loot important

 

Also on the story, many say it's linear and the characters have no depth. This is quite right.

 

This I agree with.

 

But since when did people expect dungeon crawlers to have an excellent story and deep characters like those of Assassin Creed, P.of Persia, GoW...? Isn't game like these are supposed to be slaughtering mobs, moving from 1 town to another,kill more mobs, equip you character with the most expensive gears...? There are hardly any good story in the history of dungeon crawlers, and DS3's is not to blame.

 

If the devs are going to strip away all of the other common feratures that give loot hunting diablo like ARPG's a lifespan, maybe they should at least trade by providing a more in depth story.

 

One mistake I think the developers made was naming this game Dungeon Siege. This may sound weird, but the name Dungeon Siege just make hardcore fans of DS1,2 raise their expectations even higher, thus refuse to accept DS3 the way it is.

 

I agree here as well.

 

In my point of view, this game is more of the Jade Empire style, not Diablo or Torchlight, or any ARPGs.

 

Jade Empire had more character interraction and quests.

 

 

People who whined and said that Torchlight is better than DS3 clearly didn't think carefully before they spoke. Torchlight is a mishmash copy derived from Diablo and Fate. There are simply no originality, the story has few speeches and more linear than anything I've ever seen. People just love Torchlight because they think it's like Diablo the legend. Torchlight is loved rather for the resemblance to Diablo. Had DS3 been named something else, and the game had been longer, It'd have been recognized for its good things.

 

Some people just prefer the gameplay of Torchlight and enjoy the randomized dungeon maps and loot hunting. Some people like DS3 better, to each their own.

 

This argument may be clumsy, but that's what I think, and many else as well, about the complaints and attack on the game. Stop living in the past, people. DS3 is new, is fun, and is worth being praised for. Please don't bash me if you disagree, I'd like to hear your opinion as well.

 

Your argument is fine, its what you think about the game. I happen to disagree with you quite a bit but who cares? I'm not living in the past though ... I want diablo-like ARPG's to have depth and replayability built in from the ground up. DS3 is clearly trying to be some kind of hybrid between a diablo like arpg and and a more stpory focussed rpg but it doesn't really offer either side of the equation to satisfying levels.

 

Making gamers share the same screen for online play when those gamers are using separate machines is a technical deficiency I will not forgive. The only reason people accept shared screen for couch co-op is because nobody has figured out how to output two versions of the program to two displays from the same console yet. Its why people will system link, or LAN party if they have the necessary equipment. Having your own screen is good and people merely tolerate sharing a screen for couch co-op because of the technology limitations. There is NO excuse for forcing a shared screen in online play. Obsidian should have kept working on the game until this was rectified. Instead they chose quick turn around and low budget. Wonder how Square feels about the result?

[Wrath of Dagon]

It would be better if they called the game something else, to avoid all the butthurt. Then again, publishers want a recognizable name, and SE wanted to do something with their IP, so here we are.

[kalimeeri]

I don't understand people who try to make Dungeon Seige I and II out as the best things since sliced bread, and hold them up as some sort of shining example. Maybe they look for different things in a game than I do. Or maybe they just haven't played very many games. Dungeon Seige 3 is a bit different from the first two of the same name, and for that I'm glad. I couldn't care less about multiplayer, because that's not what I bought the game for (the Dungeon Seige bar was pretty low in that regard).

 

Dungeon Seige I was fun; it had gorgeous graphics for its time, beautiful music, and non-stop hack-n-slash action. I played it through several times in sp and multi-LAN; I recently reinstalled it and started another play-through--and it was still fun (and still very pretty) ... something for a lazy afternoon when I didn't have anything else to play, or didn't want to think or get involved. There is actual value in that.

But whatever made Dungeon Seige I enjoyable was lost in DS2. The 'story' only had a very loose connection to the first game, the characters weren't interesting or even likeable, and music/scenery was bleh. But most of all, it was more tedious than fun. I stuck through it to the final battle, and then quit caring whether I finished it or not, because it never did get any better. I recently reinstalled it too and tried to play again, thinking I'd missed something--and had the same reaction. It was a hack-n-slash ... but it just wasn't fun, and had nothing to make it interesting.

 

Dungeon Seige purists need to step back and take a deep breath (and a second look). And maybe try playing the first two games again. IMO DS3 does more to validate the lore and strengthen the standing of the first game than the second ever did. But ... well, I have to laugh every time I see the statue of 'the farmer', because 'she' wasn't all that great. And while DS3 may not break any new ground, its combat is good and quite strategic; and the addition of an actual plot/storyline as well as the portrayal of characters as individuals enriches the whole franchise. In other words, if DS3 was the first game of the 'series' that I played, it would likely entice me to track down and play the first two--and you know what? I'd be sorely disappointed.

[Raikiri123]

Really Monkey you misunderstood me. If you've played Diablo and other dungeon crawlers as well as MMoRPG the style and combat mechanism are almost identical to each other. The character can only be controlled by means of mouse click. The character's bar always consist of dozens of numbered buttons for skill and item assignment. Dungeon Siege's button mapping is irritating for it's not configurable. However, you can't deny that it's now a lot simpler. And there are also other HUD6 improvements that we can't ignore. That's is what I mean by innovative.

 

I've played not many dungeon crawler games but some of the quite popular ones Diablo, Torchlight, Titan quest, and some MMorPG games, enough to see that their character build system are actually the same. When U add skill point, you just add. But in DS3, each skill has 2 branches. you can either merge the 2 or invest solely in 1 and create a whole new way of building. If U want an example, I'll give U.

 

Again, you sadly misunderstood me on the strategical-ness of the game. Usually, in Diablo for example,(I'm not bashing Diablo just giving an example) if a boss is tooo powerful all U need to do is be patient and train your char up a few more lvls and Ur ready. In DS3, however, you can't rely on level and sometimes you got stuck at a boss (rajani for example) and there's no returning whatsoever to "upgrade your character. Dodging, for 1 thing, doesn't make you invincible. You'll have to break from dodging to actually damage your enemy and even 1 split second of carelessness can kill you. Every boss needs a specific strategy for easier approach, not just "dodging" like U say.

 

Also, I never say that DS3 is as good as Jade Empire. Jade was epic, but what I mean is I see the essence of Jade in DS3: the companion, the choices affecting the outcome, the character's stances... And yes, Jade was long, and why was DS3 mostly complained about again? As I've said, had the game been longer , it'd have been even greater. As a DS3 fan I find that hard to cope up with.

 

you say this's like Double Dragon? Now that's an insult.

 

 

I have nothing to say about the co-op. It's really a careless and clumsy attempt of the developers to, how do I say this, onlinize? the game. This trend has to stop, really.

 

I write this not with the intention of booing traiditional dungeon crawlers but rather to make ppl realize that DS3 is not that bad, it's actually very fun and absorbing. I know that I can't change the minds of DS1,2 ,Diablo hardcore fans but others, who just hear about the rumors and reviews, needs to know another perspective.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Raikiri123

[MonkeyLungs]

I know that I can't change the minds of DS1,2 ,Diablo hardcore fans but others, who just hear about the rumors and reviews, needs to know another perspective.

 

Absolutely. Every opinion is valid and welcome as far as I'm concerned. The more debate, the better.

[Raikiri123]

This is (one of) the reason(s) why I started this thread. People who say they hate the game w/o any good reason or argument and a mature attitude should be damned to hell!

[LadyCrimson]

People expect too much

It's been the mantra of humanity in all things for countless ages.

[hopfrog16]

People expect too much

It's been the mantra of humanity in all things for countless ages.

 

Heh... It's the truth. =)

[Raikiri123]

Can't believe they blame this game for boring characters. I mean, the characters in other dungeon crawlers don't even talk, let alone having "interesting personality". Since when did this emerge as a dungeon crawler standard?

[rk47]

No romances I want Lucas wincest.

[MonkeyLungs]

This is (one of) the reason(s) why I started this thread. People who say they hate the game w/o any good reason or argument and a mature attitude should be damned to hell!

 

Damning people to hell for their opinions surely is mature!

 

People have good reasons for not liking the game. They have been discussed to death. The game sold badly, has a tiny online community, and exemplifies some of the worst facets of streamlining. I consider the game to be OK and worth only $20 - 30 ... There are some nice elements to the game but the things that are left out are what drags the experience down for me ... and corridor maps.

[Raikiri123]

This is (one of) the reason(s) why I started this thread. People who say they hate the game w/o any good reason or argument and a mature attitude should be damned to hell!

 

Damning people to hell for their opinions surely is mature!

 

People have good reasons for not liking the game. They have been discussed to death. The game sold badly, has a tiny online community, and exemplifies some of the worst facets of streamlining. I consider the game to be OK and worth only $20 - 30 ... There are some nice elements to the game but the things that are left out are what drags the experience down for me ... and corridor maps.

 

Damn U! U know that's just an expression, right? At least I'm not talking like: Oooh U ppl are so stupid diz game iz great U suck U have no brains U can't tell a good game from others. Go suck ******************. Yeah, that's what I mean by immature. Again, U should think carefully before speaking. See the link I put? That's the perfect exmaple of immaturity.

 

The main point is that ppl are giving the game real bad reputation for its few flaw. Yes there's no excuse for the co-op. But the controls have been fixed. Ppl now blame the story but really, many haven't even played the whole thing before deeming it "bland and linear". There are many things to think about the storyline, the supporting characters: Jeyne, Sir Devonsey, the Radiant Youth, the Gent...And the lores are worth reading as well. Why is it bland? You expect some surprising twist, like that in Jade Empire, where the supposedly good character turns out to be evil and some characters have dark past ? That's good but that's also getting cliched. Were there any twists in Diablo and other Dcrawlers? In these type of game U control the character and Ur character acts on your behalf, not like in Assassin's Creed where there's a fixed storyline- fixed charcters. In this game all characters' personality are straightforward but along the way U'll find out more things about the Legion, about your enemies, the old families and pieces of history from DS1,2. Like I said, the game WOULD HAVE BEEN a lot greater if it had been LONGER. But the way U ppl regard this as linear is just not reasonable. U don't even say why.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Raikiri123

[Monokli]

Really: ds3 has become a whole new dimension of ****storm: The first thing that was announced was NO PARTY, which meant removing one of the core elements of ds gameplay (now confirmed because it "didnt mesh in well with console controls."), then images of some random guy (turns out to be lucas) in an animu style exaggerated fighting pose (ds was renown for sensible combat animation and character modelling with a random girl w ponytail (anjali) doing a backflip on high heels: that was just plain retarded. Then all that crap about "introducing story" made sure every complaint was deflected with the reply of "we didn't introduce/carry on feature xyz because that's not our focus."

 

?Then came more info leaking out about mp and "reviving couch coop" which culminated in the live action music video trailer showing ?2 ppl prancing around in the forest using swords and finding treasure. A more accurate one would show their legs chained together prison style, forcing one to take a different weapon than a sword, and being owned by enemies because they couldn't dodge. Online shared screen is like insult to injury, yet all obsidian did was sugarcoat it with prspeak: ie: they just didn't care, and it doesn't bode well if not even the lead designer dude listens to fans of the series.

 

Then came more info about how different it will be, more lore snippets, JEYNE KASSYNDER, and every comment dismissed because of the story focus, while complaints about "departing" (to put it mildly) from the original lore estabilished by GPG were ignored as they were.

 

Yet this was still calm before the demo came. And when it did, solid human waste collided with the rotating instrument of ventillation. Obsidian apparently forgot about pc gamers and their need of customization, or had decided that they knew controls better than anyone: right&left handers be damned, and left out keybinding of the final product. Add in the downright ****ty camera programming (no gradual zoom for christ's sake) the lack of dynamically loading world with fog and frustrum, and finally the lack of customizable character gender/appearance/weapon selection did it. Nothing save a few tidbits of lore remained from dungeon siege, and let's face it: we are expecting more from a sequel than a new title, or even a spinoff game, and it's not entirely unreasonable to do so: Diablo 2 expanded the variation of environments and the scope of adventure from the first game, yet the gameplay was mostly the same. Dio 3 gives more by customizeable skills and characters, without ditching anything from the previous installations. Torchlight does the same. one village+dungeons-> massive overworld areas. In the ds series ds2 adds better(than both ds1 and ds3) conversations, specializations tab (like ds3 skill and talent/proficency systems together on steroids), powers and with bw: proper multiclassing. Stuff that people missed from the previous installations. And mob generators: each playthrough is different from the last one thanks to the brutal and awesome tuning grids.

 

The transition from ds2 to ds3 is like going back from 3d to 1d. Yeah not 2d, because 2d still implies some form of freedom. Freedom of gameplay Obsidian took away and can't find the excuses for. This game is dumbed down to the point where the only thing you really choose is whether you listen to the story standing, sitting or laying on an oversized sofa. The story is the same and it's more like an interactive book than a game.

 

As for the game issues: too much talk between fighting, when somebody walks away you cannot skip that part. View of the battlefield is limited and enemies move too damn fast to make good tactical decisions so everything becomes dodgefest&reflex play. In ds2 you had time to think things through, and dodging wasn't invulnerability. It required player skill to pull off properly.

 

After this sequel is so lacking and essentially puts you on rails, Is it still a wonder that people react sensibly in face of such changes?