RANDOM VIDEO GAME NEWS THREAD!

[Nepenthe]

DA2 was a commercial success, it was a massive failure in quality, it was a massive failure for fan expectation etc... etc...

No. Failure in quality versus failure in fan expectations are two different things. Fans ususally change their minds and expectations more frequently than their socks.

 

Bioware experimented a bit more with DA2 and I think they pulled it off. It sure as hell beats the drab DA:O. It also shows in the sale numbers.

I think you are on the money.

 

(for the record, I mean that I think that he's right, not that EA has paid him off) :D

Edited July 17, 2011 by Nepenthe

[C2B]

According to leaked NPD June numbers, DSIII sold around 100k. Not a great number. From what I have been able to gather from EU and NA sales, the game did unfortunately not sell in great numbers. The question is how much the game was expected to sell to begin with?

 

Thats always the question. Looking at the competition (titles that started around the same time) it still did fairly well though (I mean SOTD only ~26 or something). Everyone probably burned their money on June/early July purchases. It definitly wasn't a hit though. Hopefully the japanese sales will contibute some for it.

Edited July 17, 2011 by C2B

[Hurlshort]

Is that 100k number really confirmed?

[Slowtrain]

Why would DS3 be considered a failure for Obsidian?

 

It wasn't their IP. They were hired to make a game that someone else wanted them to make the way someone else wanted them to make it. DS3 is not "Obsidian's game". They were told what to do and did it.

 

The game appears to have been brought in on time and mostly bug-free. WHich is a big success for Obs in and of itself. If anything this success should be a good boost to their credentials as a for-hire developer of other people's IPs.

[Bos_hybrid]

The game appears to have been brought in on time and mostly bug-free. WHich is a big success for Obs in and of itself. If anything this success should be a good boost to their credentials as a for-hire developer of other people's IPs.

 

That's not the way the gaming industry works. It's all about the $$$$$.

[Volourn]

"Why would DS3 be considered a failure for Obsidian?

 

It wasn't their IP. They were hired to make a game that someone else wanted them to make the way someone else wanted them to make it. DS3 is not "Obsidian's game". They were told what to do and did it.

 

The game appears to have been brought in on time and mostly bug-free. WHich is a big success for Obs in and of itself. If anything this success should be a good boost to their credentials as a for-hire developer of other people's IPs."

 

Are you serious?

 

That's like saying if BG1 had bombed, BIO would have been able to sip away happy as can be.What a lame cop out excuse. You do realzie that every single game Obsidian makes they wer e'hired' by somebody else. L0LZ

 

If DS3 sold as low as the claim is, it s failure is a hit to Obsidian's credentials as a for hire devloper of others IPs. Bdeing 'brought in on time' and 'mostly bug free' is not enough. In fact, out of the three, a publuisher looking to hire a dev will prefer a dev that sells FO3.5 numbers but with its 'bugginess' than DS3's 'bug freeness' but totally bombing numbers.

 

You asked Bethesda, Sega, and Squaresoft which one is most happy with Obsidian.... The answer is very telling....

 

I bet you have no problem giving Obsidian credit for NWN2, KOTOR2, or FO3.5:LV right? L0LZ

 

 

"Looking at the competition (titles that started around the same time) it still did fairly well though"

 

No. If the game actually sold only 100k sales, it's a flat out bomb. Plain, and simple. Main stream action rpg based on a multi million sellings eries published by SS and devloped by one of the most well known rpg developers cannot live on 100k sales in the year 2011. Period.

 

If those sales are accurate, it means disaster.

[Slowtrain]

*shrug*

 

If someone contracts you to do work to their specifications in a specific period of time and you do so, then you've done your job successfully.

 

 

If the idea doesn't sell, for whatever reason, that's a different issue.

[Bos_hybrid]

If those sales are accurate, it means disaster.

 

I wouldn't go that far.

 

Also that 100K is it just for 360.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Bos_hybrid

[WorstUsernameEver]

For those who don't know NPD sales are US-only. Still bad numbers, but should help give more context.

[pmp10]

If the idea doesn't sell, for whatever reason, that's a different issue.

That's also a developer problem as it means they failed to appeal to the target audience with their product.

 

For those who don't know NPD sales are US-only.

Besides that for all we know they may cover only a week of sales.

If true it still would be a very bad result as the game would likely top around 300k but at least it's not the 1:10 sales to expectation ratio.

[Hurlshort]

If those sales are accurate, it means disaster.

 

I wouldn't go that far.

 

Also that 100K is it just for 360.

 

Ah see, that makes a big difference. So if it did 100k on the 360, and maybe a little less, like 80k on the PS3, and then maybe around 30k on the PC, suddenly we are over 200k. Still low, but with the international numbers it might get closer to 300k. Which is a bit more respectable in the first month.

 

These are all made up numbers, of course, but apparently so is the 100k number everyone is bandying on about.

[Sannom]

According to leaked NPD June numbers, DSIII sold around 100k. Not a great number. From what I have been able to gather from EU and NA sales, the game did unfortunately not sell in great numbers. The question is how much the game was expected to sell to begin with?

The game was expecting to sell 1,000,000+ copies, but the prediction probably included Japanese sells, and the game still has to get out there. Plus I'm not sure those numbers include sells for all platforms, and they certainly don't include Steam sales.

 

Is that 100k number really confirmed?

The claim seems to be, I'm still not sure about the exactitude of it.

 

Why would DS3 be considered a failure for Obsidian?

If Square Enix was really, really disappointed with the game's quality and/or sales, I suppose. Also if reviews were the lowest of the low.

[Nepenthe]

Is that 100k number really confirmed?

It ain't confirmed until it's in the financials, and even then it might not be exactly clear. Until somebody from Squeenix says they were happy/disappointed with how the game performed, this is an exercise in futility.

 

Well, it would be another interesting psychological study in cognitive bias for all involved, but...

[Slowtrain]

If the idea doesn't sell, for whatever reason, that's a different issue.

That's also a developer problem as it means they failed to appeal to the target audience with their product.

 

 

Did Obsidian have that level of responsibility for the project? I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Obs was hired to make the game Square Enix wanted to make. Similar to how the Wheel of TIme project seems to planned.

[Sannom]

Did Obsidian have that level of responsibility for the project? I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Obs was hired to make the game Square Enix wanted to make. Similar to how the Wheel of TIme project seems to planned.

We wouldn't know, I think. Obsidian may have been given very broad directions (multi-platforms with a focus on the gamepad, action-and-combat-focused, etc.) but the details and implementations were left to them.

[Slowtrain]

With FO:NV Obs got to work on an IP that Bethie had returned to prominence.

 

With DS Obs got to work on an IP that had no prominence at all.

 

NV was pretty close to a slamdunk as far as being a big seller, which we talked about at length before the game was released.

 

DS3 was pretty much the opposite. But I don't think that qualifies it as a failure for Obsidian. Maybe for Square Enix, though.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Looks to me DS3 is about as successful as AP. In either case, it's not really clear who the intended audience was, apparently not to the publisher either. Normally it's the publisher that specifies all the features in a game, not the developer. Of course writing and low level gameplay design is still up to the developer, but the publisher is in control.

[Slowtrain]

In the end its all marketing and pr anyway.

 

With enough marketing, a plate of cold poop would sell millions.

[Volourn]

"With DS Obs got to work on an IP that had no prominence at all."

 

Why do people keep posting this nonsense? DS series has sold millions. This isn't some trashy series that has no fan base. It's fanbase is larger than FO series pre FO3.

 

100k (or the 300-400k that some are now randomly spouting to make themselves feel good) is just not acceptable for a mianstream game that took 2-3 years tod evelop with a well known brand name published by SS developed by the better known RPG dev houses.

 

If ity's a failure for SS it's a more damaging failure for Obsidian because SS can handle losses a lot easier.

 

But, still, the usual is occuring here - give accolades to Obsidian when things go wiell and bash the publisher and/or make excuses for poor little Obsidian (lol) when things don't go their way.

 

DS3 - if the numbers are accurate - is a flop. Then again, these comments come from the people who claim because DA2 sold 2mil+, it was a bomb. HAHAHA!

 

 

"Looks to me DS3 is about as successful as AP. "

 

So... a bombg? Because Sega was very clear about how poor AP did - so much they didn't hesitate to publically trash its performance and put a squash on any Sega published (and since they own the IP IIRC that's a big oo) AP.

 

 

"Did Obsidian have that level of responsibility for the project? I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Obs was hired to make the game Square Enix wanted to make. Similar to how the Wheel of TIme project seems to planned."

 

Obsidian is the devloper of DS3 just as theyw ere for their successful games. Why make excuses for them? They are just 'helping' 9whaetver that actually means) on WOT.

 

Of course, they have a responsibilty for the success of the project. That's why they were hired. The same way anyone who is contracted to do a job has a responsibility to succeed at the project, Obsidian succeeded with FO3.5:LV and bombed with DS3.

 

 

"In the end its all marketing and pr anyway.

 

With enough marketing, a plate of cold poop would sell millions. "

 

Nah. Plenty of games fail even with heavy marketing and PR. Don't throw out random nonsense.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Volourn

[Hurlshort]

The only real thing at stake here for Obsidian is the chance to work with Square Enix again. The quality of the game and the critical response is good enough that I can't see how it would affect Obsidian's reputation with fans or other publishers. FO:NV shows that with proper targeting and advertising, Obsidian is capable of developing a hit.

[Volourn]

"The only real thing at stake here for Obsidian is the chance to work with Square Enix again. "

 

cUTE.

 

 

"The quality of the game and the critical response is good enough that I can't see how it would affect Obsidian's reputation with fans or other publishers."

 

Obsidian forums do not equal overall views. The critiical repsonse and the qualityn of the game has hurt Obsidian's rep just as AP did. DS3 has had subpar reviews and fan reaction outside these forums. Heck, the Codex forums don't even waste their time spamming their fourms with DS3 threads like they usually do. Why? 'Cause DS3 just doesn't matter. EPIC FAIL. FO3.5 was EPIC SUCCESS.

 

 

" FO:NV shows that with proper targeting and advertising, Obsidian is capable of developing a hit. "

 

And, AP and DS3 illustare they are capablem of developing failures hence why other publsihers will be more hesitant to put more money into the Obsidian machine hence lower budgets hence elsser quality of game as they cut corners hence the lost of more funds and the loss of jobs.

 

 

Come on, guys, it's okay to like the game and still admit it failed in the bigger picture. I like plenty of games that didn't becaome popular. *shrug* No biggie.

[Sannom]

Looks to me DS3 is about as successful as AP. In either case, it's not really clear who the intended audience was, apparently not to the publisher either.

It seems to me that DS3's intented audience, and by extension the gameplay, were very clear. Combat-focused, gamepad-focused, not too much distraction in the shape of dialogues or secondary gameplay, a strong combat system. And the audience were the gamers who liked console ARPGs like the Dark Alliance series or some recent X-Men games.

 

(1) If ity's a failure for SS it's a more damaging failure for Obsidian because SS can handle losses a lot easier.

 

(2) So... a bombg? Because Sega was very clear about how poor AP did - so much they didn't hesitate to publically trash its performance and put a squash on any Sega published (and since they own the IP IIRC that's a big oo) AP.

(1) I thought Square Enix was in a bad shape financially, with the joke that was Final Fantasy XIV launch and other assorted disasters? Obsidian, if already paid by Square, is probably safe.

 

(2) Sega doesn't own the Alpha Protocol IP, it has gone back to Obsidian.

[Volourn]

"(1) I thought Square Enix was in a bad shape financially, with the joke that was Final Fantasy XIV launch and other assorted disasters?"

 

I didn't hear about it, but if so they cna still handle a poor selling game and regroup.

 

 

" Obsidian, if already paid by Square, is probably safe."

 

That's not how game development contracts usually work. You get advances and as the game sells you pay a pecentage of your profits back to the publisher until you repay back all development costs. At least according to Mr. Sawyer. Most publishers just don't throw free money at devs and tell them to go wild and no worries if the game bombs. If the game bombs it will hurt both companies financially.

 

 

 

"2) Sega doesn't own the Alpha Protocol IP, it has gone back to Obsidian."

 

Interesting. I could see Obsidian bugging another publisher to give them money for a sequel. Ha. I'm guessing Sega had first crack at a AP sequel as publisher and said no thanks you can keep your crappy IP. L0LZ

Edited July 17, 2011 by Volourn

[Zoraptor]

I'd like some proof that DS sold 'millions'. Yeah, f(v)olorn hope on anything other than roofles on that one.

 

Alpha Protocol is still owned by Sega so far as I know.

[Niten_Ryu]

If those sales are accurate, it means disaster.

 

I wouldn't go that far.

 

Also that 100K is it just for 360.

 

When you get NPD data (leaked, offical or whatever) - It's always 1 month (4-5 weeks of sales data), combines Xbox360 / PS3 / PC retail data for US only, but no handhelds unless specifically say so (as games rarely are 1 to 1 between consoles and handhelds). They have no real way to get DL data from services like Steam or similar.