Degradation via consolification

[metamag]

This and a lot of other stuff gets eliminated when developers are making games for consoles and are multiplatforming.

 

Remember this, if it weren't for consoles, we would have games like this 3 years ago and just imagine what Dungeon Siege 3 would look like.

[Pidesco]

The only thing that has been degraded by consoles is graphics in the past few years, which have been held back on the PC due to console limits.

 

Dumbing down has always been around and is not the exclusive province of consoles. Likewise deep, hardcore gaming has always been around is not exclusive to the PC.

 

In any case anyone who is a Dungeon Siege fan doesn't have a lot to stand on when complaining about dumbing down, as the first Dungeon Siege was the poster child for dumbing down at the time of release.

[Chasted]

...Non-existant?

[metamag]

...Non-existant?

 

You do realize that PC is upgraded only every 2 years and consoles break down more than any computing hardware on the market?

[Chasted]

And consoles have expanded the gaming market to a size where titles such as this can be created with a high chance of generating a profit (Or, a greater profit that would warrant it's creation)?

Edited June 29, 2011 by Chasted

[metamag]

And consoles have expanded the gaming market to a size where titles such as this can be created with a high chance of generating a profit (Or, a greater profit to warrant it's creation)?

 

If Microsoft pursued games for windows initiative instead of abandoning it due to xbox there would no such problem. You do realize that people use PC to go on the internet, not consoles?

[Chasted]

What does people using PC's to go on the internet have to do with the price of wheat in china?

[XxTaLoNxX]

What does people using PC's to go on the internet have to do with the price of wheat in china?

 

I see where he is going with this and it is strictly in the hypothetical universe of "what-ifs". So to be honest it's one of those correlations that is non-issue.

 

Attempting to assume that if Microsoft didn't make the Xbox gaming platform then they would have promoted Windows Gaming computers and made computer gaming a much more valid industry consumer base. This assumption of course is ignoring the fact that PC gaming has always been hit-or-miss when it comes to benchmarks within the industry. It's very difficult to develop games that can challenge the technology of an up-to-date computer built for gaming because the progression of technology is faster than the progression of game development. Like-wise you must reach as many consumers as possible and have to decide where you base the minimum requirements of a system to adequately play the game.

 

And this would not have changed based on the release of the Xbox platform.

[metamag]

btw, it would be nice if the word "loading" was removed from PC version when you engage dialog cutscenes, it lasts a milisecond so there is no purpose to it. It just reminds us that consoles are decrepit last gen hardware and that you haven't bothered to properly develop the PC version.

[Pidesco]

btw, it would be nice if the word "loading" was removed from PC version when you engage dialog cutscenes, it lasts a milisecond so there is no purpose to it. It just reminds us that consoles are decrepit last gen hardware and that you haven't bothered to properly develop the PC version.

 

I have never seen that...

[Falcon68]

btw, it would be nice if the word "loading" was removed from PC version when you engage dialog cutscenes, it lasts a milisecond so there is no purpose to it. It just reminds us that consoles are decrepit last gen hardware and that you haven't bothered to properly develop the PC version.

 

I have never seen that...

 

There are a ton of details in the game that make it obvious that it was built for console and ported to PC where it should have really been done the other way around.

[AddziX]

btw, it would be nice if the word "loading" was removed from PC version when you engage dialog cutscenes, it lasts a milisecond so there is no purpose to it. It just reminds us that consoles are decrepit last gen hardware and that you haven't bothered to properly develop the PC version.

 

I have never seen that...

 

There are a ton of details in the game that make it obvious that it was built for console and ported to PC where it should have really been done the other way around.

But then you would have had a ton of bugs and issues with the console versions, so someone is always going to have a problem depending on what system they have.

[Sasha_Je]

Grr i hate this word...consolification! This was invented by new generation gamers that have daddy's CC in their pocket. Ive had a lot of console in my life such as Sega Mega Drive, Game Cube, Playstation 1 and Playstation 3 but i had my fair share of Pc gaming as well. A console is more practical, you just have to buy the console and thats it while if you rely on the Pc you have to upgrade it once a year. Consoles brake but even a Pc can brake...every electronic device brakes. The Playstation 3 was released in 2006 so I'm pretty curios how well can you play games like Crysis 2 or the upcoming Battlefield 3 on a Pc with a configuration from 2006? Do this test, cry for 1 day and after that re-think. The word "consolification" was made up by ignorant people like you so you won't blame the developers for their failure, console games where on market since 80s and still that did not made developers to make crappy games in the old days...more then that if you check the internet on your beloved Pc you will find out that most of the Epic RPGs where made for consoles. Pc gaming is all about marketing, when someone release a new game Nvidia, Intel, AtI and everyone releases something and people like EA "Runs great on Intel" or "Runs great on Nvidia" make a crappy game with zomg wtf gfx so you can enjoy 5h game play, but in order to do that you need to first stop at the nearest Pc Store to buy something. I agree that Dungeon Siege III was originally made for consoles and ported to Pc but this is a marketing decision, it's all about money. As you can see an average game play duration of an RPG nowadays is 8-10 hours lol, do a little research and check the average game play duration of any RPG from <2000. Anyway this is a very delicate subject and i believe you won't comprehend much because you are an ignorant.

[Renevent]

Grr i hate this word...consolification! This was invented by new generation gamers that have daddy's CC in their pocket. Ive had a lot of console in my life such as Sega Mega Drive, Game Cube, Playstation 1 and Playstation 3 but i had my fair share of Pc gaming as well. A console is more practical, you just have to buy the console and thats it while if you rely on the Pc you have to upgrade it once a year. Consoles brake but even a Pc can brake...every electronic device brakes. The Playstation 3 was released in 2006 so I'm pretty curios how well can you play games like Crysis 2 or the upcoming Battlefield 3 on a Pc with a configuration from 2006? Do this test, cry for 1 day and after that re-think. The word "consolification" was made up by ignorant people like you so you won't blame the developers for their failure, console games where on market since 80s and still that did not made developers to make crappy games in the old days...more then that if you check the internet on your beloved Pc you will find out that most of the Epic RPGs where made for consoles. Pc gaming is all about marketing, when someone release a new game Nvidia, Intel, AtI and everyone releases something and people like EA "Runs great on Intel" or "Runs great on Nvidia" make a crappy game with zomg wtf gfx so you can enjoy 5h game play, but in order to do that you need to first stop at the nearest Pc Store to buy something. I agree that Dungeon Siege III was originally made for consoles and ported to Pc but this is a marketing decision, it's all about money. As you can see an average game play duration of an RPG nowadays is 8-10 hours lol, do a little research and check the average game play duration of any RPG from <2000. Anyway this is a very delicate subject and i believe you won't comprehend much because you are an ignorant.

 

Sasha_Je, what you've just said ... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Bakercompany86]

I'm yet to see reasons why DS3 should have been made for PC and ported to consoles instead of how it was done, other than graphical quality. And PC's still get better visuals than consoles, so why is this an issue?

 

Saying DS3 in any other element was dumbed down due to the fact it was made for consoles is stupid. I'm so tired of the PC elitest crap that spews from some peoples mouths.

[Renevent]

I don't know if it's due to consoles, this generation of gamers, or just trying to reach more people who may not be interested in typical rpg stuff, but some things were definitely 'dumbed down' in DS3. Attribute it to anything you'd like doesn't really matter.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Renevent

[Bakercompany86]

I don't know if it's due to consoles, this generation of gamers, or just trying to reach more people who may not be interested in typical rpg stuff, but some things were definitely 'dumbed down' in DS3. Attribute it to anything you'd like doesn't really matter.

 

Such as?

[Renevent]

It's been written by many people like dozens of times in the forum...

[Bakercompany86]

It's been written by many people like dozens of times in the forum...

 

Then surely you have your own examples.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Bakercompany86

[Renevent]

Yup, I have listed them out quite a few times.

 

Ok ok, how about one example...the item system.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Renevent

[Bakercompany86]

Yup, I have listed them out quite a few times.

 

Ok ok, how about one example...the item system.

 

And how is the item system dumbed down for consoles? There are more than a few slots to equip, quite a few stats (Diablo had 4, mind you), and several quality types. WoW, the #1 MMO of all time has 4 quality types (that matter). And thats considering the massive scale of an MMO.

 

I fail to see how the item system is dumbed down for consoles. Keep in mind several of the most popular games of this type had sockets/runes/gems and such added much later via expansion pack. So its not fair to judge DS3 for not having it on launch when the item system is fine as is.

[Renevent]

Yup, I have listed them out quite a few times.

 

Ok ok, how about one example...the item system.

 

And how is the item system dumbed down for consoles? There are more than a few slots to equip, quite a few stats (Diablo had 4, mind you), and several quality types. WoW, the #1 MMO of all time has 4 quality types (that matter). And thats considering the massive scale of an MMO.

 

I fail to see how the item system is dumbed down for consoles. Keep in mind several of the most popular games of this type had sockets/runes/gems and such added much later via expansion pack. So its not fair to judge DS3 for not having it on launch when the item system is fine as is.

 

You must be out of your mind...or simply are ignorant of the differences.

 

-no sockets/runes/enhancements

-no crafting

-small handful of pre-fixes/suffixes and stats

-almost no secondary effects (on hit, ect)

-very low level scaling

-each item does not have it's own graphics...it's shared based on class (what are we back to 1999?)

-no set items

-very small amount of uniques

 

This is a very weak item system compared to Diablo 2/Titan Quest/Sacred even the original Dungeon Sieges. Doesn't matter how many classes of items are in WoW, it has a HUGE robust item system complete with crafting, sets, enhancements, ect, ect.

 

A unique item layout can fundamentally change the way a character plays in those games...not just stats...on a fundamental level. Not the case with DS3 because...well...frankly the item system isn't as deep or in depth and doesn't offer a lot of meaningful variation.

 

If Diablo 2 had an item/class/skill system as shallow as DS3, people would NOT still be playing it to this day.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Renevent

[Bakercompany86]

So wait, wasn't Sacred 2 multi-platform? And weren't the versions identical with graphical exceptions?

 

 

So in your own statement, you've proven yourself wrong. DSIII wasn't dumbed down to be on consoles. The design choices made by Obsidian were just that, their design choices. Not some limitation for putting it on console.

 

I think you lost yourself a bit in your own post. We were talking about how DS3 is somehow reduced in every aspect to fit onto consoles. That's just wrong bud. Oblivion is the exact same game on PC as it is on PS3 and 360. So again you are incorrect. DS3 wasn't dumbed down specifically for consoles.

 

If Obsidian wanted a more robust item system, they would have done it. And for all we know they planned on it and may have run out of time and money, an issue with every game that's not developed by Blizzard.

 

Again, remember we're talking about features that would have been removed to fit onto consoles. And it's just not true. If they wanted all of that in DS3, they could have done it and the exact same game would have made it to PC.

 

So all of your crafting/runes/gems/sockets/looks/fluffy bunny shoes could have been in DS3, they just chose not too.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Bakercompany86

[Renevent]

So wait, wasn't Sacred 2 multi-platform? And weren't the versions identical with graphical exceptions?

 

 

So in your own statement, you've proven yourself wrong. DSIII wasn't dumbed down to be on consoles. The design choices made by Obsidian were just that, their design choices. Not some limitation for putting it on console.

 

I think you lost yourself a bit in your own post. We were talking about how DS3 is somehow reduced in every aspect to fit onto consoles. That's just wrong bud. Oblivion is the exact same game on PC as it is on PS3 and 360. So again you are incorrect. DS3 wasn't dumbed down specifically for consoles.

 

If Obsidian wanted a more robust item system, they would have done it. And for all we know they planned on it and may have run out of time and money, and issue with every game that's not developed by Blizzard.

 

Again, remember we're talking about features that would have been removed to fit onto consoles. And it's just not true. If they wanted all of that in DS3, they could have done it and the exact same game would have made it to PC.

 

So all of your crafting/runes/gems/sockets/looks/fluffy bunny shoes could have been in DS3, they just chose not too.

 

Sacred 2 is a PC game ported to the consoles.

 

But that wasn't really my point anyways...if you noticed the first thing I said is I wasn't sure if consoles are to blame anyways. Could be publishers wanting to reach out to non-typical (ie joe shmoe) players so they have to spice up the action and simplify the mechanics.

 

It's not about some technical limitation, I think it's more about audience. Maybe that has something to do with consoles but I think it's more broad than that.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Renevent

[Bakercompany86]

So wait, wasn't Sacred 2 multi-platform? And weren't the versions identical with graphical exceptions?

 

 

So in your own statement, you've proven yourself wrong. DSIII wasn't dumbed down to be on consoles. The design choices made by Obsidian were just that, their design choices. Not some limitation for putting it on console.

 

I think you lost yourself a bit in your own post. We were talking about how DS3 is somehow reduced in every aspect to fit onto consoles. That's just wrong bud. Oblivion is the exact same game on PC as it is on PS3 and 360. So again you are incorrect. DS3 wasn't dumbed down specifically for consoles.

 

If Obsidian wanted a more robust item system, they would have done it. And for all we know they planned on it and may have run out of time and money, and issue with every game that's not developed by Blizzard.

 

Again, remember we're talking about features that would have been removed to fit onto consoles. And it's just not true. If they wanted all of that in DS3, they could have done it and the exact same game would have made it to PC.

 

So all of your crafting/runes/gems/sockets/looks/fluffy bunny shoes could have been in DS3, they just chose not too.

 

Sacred 2 is a PC game ported to the consoles.

 

You're missing the point. The same amount of data fits onto a disk regardless. So why would features have to be removed to accommodate consoles? Are you familiar with the porting process and its limitations?

 

EDIT: Here let me just end this. Porting isn't what you think it is. Porting is just re-writing the code to work on another system. Most games are made for Xbox, and ported to PS3, thus the quality of the game (frame rate, graphics, sound) might take a hit. But in no way does it limit the quantity of the features in a game. It's just copying the code from one platform to another and re-writing it so it functions.

 

Porting doesn't mean they had to dumb down features, it just doesn't make sense. The data limitations for a DVD, CD, or Blu-Ray are the same regardless of system. What can fit onto a PC DVD is the same as an Xbox DVD. Consoles simply have lower graphical potential, which would be the only area affected by porting an xbox game to PC.

 

Understand?

Edited June 29, 2011 by Bakercompany86