Morgoth Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Okay. Hope Josh's not gonna commit suicide now or something. I hope the responsible publisher has at least the balls to come forward and make a proper statement. FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I could start swearing but that would be censored. What else can I say? It sucks for sure. And to learn that just after I read an excellent Powerpoint Josh did to explain how choices and consequences must be done in a video game... You can read it here by the way: http://diogenes-lamp...Right_Thing.pdf I expected Obsidian to be in better shape after the success of Fallout New Vegas. What happened? By the way, I may be mistaken but I think any kickstarter possibility is out of the question for the moment since Chris is already on it. On better news, I saw on forums a lot of expectation considering an Obsidian kickstarter project. Oh nice, Josh even used Miranda's ass shot in his presentation. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Was North Carolina that Wheel of Time RPG? The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Was North Carolina that Wheel of Time RPG? No, if it was Josh's project, which I still don't want to believe, then it's a new IP, possibly that Defiance project. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flouride Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I expected Obsidian to be in better shape after the success of Fallout New Vegas. What happened? Since publishers have all the power in contract negotiations Obsidian didn't really make much profit with FNV, Bethesda did. All it takes is one publisher to screw them over and cancel a project midway through when they don't have a Plan B ready and waiting. Hate the living, love the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flouride Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Seems like they had to release even their hiring manager Jim Rivers http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=4096614&authType=name&authToken=D3Ql&locale=en_US&pvs=pp&trk=ppro_viewmore Hate the living, love the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 "Since publishers have all the power in contract negotiations Obsidian didn't really make much profit with FNV," Only if the developer is weak. Before BIo got picked up by EA, they had quite a bit of power. It's why they were able to keep the ME/DA/JE IPs no matter what. But, you need to earn that kind of power and prestige. Obsidian hasn't yet. AS for the layoffs, friggin' sucks to be sure no matter what. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flouride Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Only if the developer is weak. Before BIo got picked up by EA, they had quite a bit of power. It's why they were able to keep the ME/DA/JE IPs no matter what. They did not technically get to keep the DA license, since they never found a publisher for it before EA bought them. I can't remember if EA bought the rights to ME from Microsoft, or if MS actually let BioWare keep the rights in the 1st place. Also back in the day publishers were more keen on paying actual royalties, not that much these days. BioWare were in great position with Interplay since they actually got paid royalties for their succesful games even though the company was pretty much unknown at that point. If BioWare was founded in 2005 things would be completely different, since that's not the business model publishers use. "Work for hire" method doesn't really let you raise the same kinda capital that you could with the royalties if you made a succesful game. Edited March 14, 2012 by Flouride Hate the living, love the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 "They did not technically get to keep the DA license, since they never found a publisher for it before EA bought them. I can't remember if EA bought the rights to ME from Microsoft, or if MS actually let BioWare keep the rights in the 1st place." BIO owned the DA license. And, the ME and JE IPs as well. MS owned crap. They were the publisher. That's it. MS couldn't 'let' BIo do anything. ME, JE, and DA arwe all BIO creaated and owned IPs (now EA). L0L MS 'let' them do ****. HA! It's not luck. BIO handled their business properly. Obsidian seems to be all over the place. They have successes and good contracts but thenc rash and burn elsewhere. Plenty of devs have found success these days. Don't blame others for Obsidian's fialures just like we shouldn't give credit to others for Obsidian's successes. Or should we give Bethesda all the credit for FO:NV being a fun game? L0LZ DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Man I'm going to be dreading checking my email every morning for the next few weeks, waiting for Obsidz's obit. If the owners haven't been paid in 6 months then it stands to reason that 100% of all SP income is going into keeping the ship afloat. They need another project, yesterday. Godspeed to all those laid off. Rough break. Edited March 14, 2012 by Pop Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 This bites hard. I'm starting to fear for Obsidian. Sympathies to those affected and here's hoping for things to start turning around soon. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flouride Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 BIO owned the DA license. And, the ME and JE IPs as well. MS owned crap. They were the publisher. That's it. MS couldn't 'let' BIo do anything. ME, JE, and DA arwe all BIO creaated and owned IPs (now EA). L0L MS 'let' them do ****. HA! It's not luck. BIO handled their business properly. Obsidian seems to be all over the place. They have successes and good contracts but thenc rash and burn elsewhere. Plenty of devs have found success these days. Don't blame others for Obsidian's fialures just like we shouldn't give credit to others for Obsidian's successes. Or should we give Bethesda all the credit for FO:NV being a fun game? L0LZ Yes, they owned DA license, also they never found anyone to publish it before EA bought the company. Hence, it's pretty damn impossible to say how much power they had in the negotiations when it comes to DA prior to EA purchasing them. It's not that rare for MS to do deals that allow the developer to keep the license, when and if it involves the game only coming out to XBOX (for a certain period of time). Whether you agree or not, part of it is always luck/timing. You cannot compare a company founded in 90's and 2000 and something, because the business models and the market were different. Not to mention comparing a company that makes western rpgs to say companies that do shooters, is pointless. Completely different market when it comes to the games.Don't even bother mentioning whatever company is doing Witcher, since they are from Poland so their costs are way way lower than companies in California. Which already gives them a huge advantage over any "Western" companies. And I'm not saying BioWare (or other companies) didn't do things right, they certainly did. It's just that it's that much harder to make it these days when your average business deal doesn't involve you getting paid royalties over each copy of the game that is sold. And with the economy being pretty damn bad for what 4 years now? And to be honest, I don't think are that many success stories (in AAA) gaming companies these days, I mean new ones that have been established recently (5 years). Especially not if you compare how many go down in flames due to whatever reasons. Hate the living, love the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funcroc Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 http://www.linkedin....lutton/4/4a3/16 ProducerObsidian Entertainment March 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoomazir Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 This ****ing sucks, one would have thought that with the success of F:NV, Obsidian wouldn't have no more problems finding contracts & fundings, guess I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funktion JCB Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 It's sad to see Obsidian in such (apparent) bad state. I really hope they pull through. After Troika Games closed, I spent a significant period of time where I had pretty much zero interest for any videogame product. It was particularly sad to see the one developer whose output I was always looking forward to close, especially after making 3 excellent games, including my personal all-time favourite RPG Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. Seeing Obsidian, a company that somewhat filled the void left by Troika for me in these past years in such state seems like a sad case of history repeating itself. Worse of all, this after Tim Cain joined them! I really hope they are able to turn things around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flouride Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 This ****ing sucks, one would have thought that with the success of F:NV, Obsidian wouldn't have no more problems finding contracts & fundings, guess I was wrong. They did find success, but all it takes is one publisher deciding to cancel at a "right time". It's not like every damn publisher is waiting for Obs to make them a rpg. Takes time to get a deal done. Takes 1 phone call to cancel one. Hate the living, love the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 From Avellone's Twitter FNV was a straight payment, no royalties, only a bonus if we got an 85+ on Metacritic, which we didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 a bonus if we got an 85+ on Metacritic yeah, judging the game's success by Metacritic score, not sales - makes total sense... NOT Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxilius Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 From Avellone's Twitter FNV was a straight payment, no royalties, only a bonus if we got an 85+ on Metacritic, which we didn't. I decided to check metacritic to see if it's true. PS3: 82 Xbox 360: 84 PC: 84 ... I have no word to express my discontent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hano Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I'm an Obisidan fan. I like the whole bunch of em, Fargus, Chris and Chris and Sawyer etc for all the great games they created in the past and (hopefully) the many more to come. However, these guys who manage the company and whom I'm a fan of, better look in the mirror really hard. It seems they're doing things wrong and others have to pay for their mistakes. I mean hiring a guy and after 1 day laying them off after a day or a week or even a year? This screams inept management I'm sorry to say. You have many more problems in your company if this is going on and I think the wrong people are probably laid off. Besides, you don't go on laying off the technical talent, you usually go to the marketing and sales and start off from there if you are spending more money there than you should. I hope if this ship sinks; it is not for bad management or favoritism, as a fan I would be sad. Edited March 14, 2012 by hano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 a bonus if we got an 85+ on Metacritic yeah, judging the game's success by Metacritic score, not sales - makes total sense... NOT The game industry is retarded in a lot of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendu Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Because of one ****ing percentage point... fffffffuuuuuuuuuuu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I think what happened was; they hired a bunch of guys to work on this project NC or whatever, and then the publisher suddenly cancels it, without any warning. what do they do? they cut the staff who was working on that: the majority of people cut were probably the ones hired for that particular project in the first place. Edited March 14, 2012 by sorophx Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2B Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I'm an Obisidan fan. I like the whole punch of em, Fargus, Chris and Chris and Sawyer etc for all the great games they created in the past and (hopefully) the many more to come. However, these guys who manage the company and whom I'm a fan of, better look in the mirror really hard. It seems they're doing things wrong and others have to pay for their mistakes. I mean hiring a guy and after 1 day laying them off after a day or a week or even a year? This screams inept management I'm sorry to say. You have many more problems in your company if this is going on and I think the wrong people are probably laid off. Besides, you don't go on laying off the technical talent, you usually go to the marketing and sales and start off from there if you are spending more money there than you should. I hope if this ship sinks; it is not for bad management or favoritism, as a fan I would be sad. The management in this case refused salary for the last 6-7 months to keep employees and that guy was hired in thinking they can continue with the project. Then they got cancelled. There's next to nothing they could have done about it. They don't have any other sort of income so a cancellation will almost certainly come with lay-offs. The cancellation itself seemed to happen shortly before or while the guy began work. This way atleast he gets paid for the day. Obsidian doesn't even have a "real" marketing or sales department. They are a contractor, not a publisher. Edited March 14, 2012 by C2B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm an Obisidan fan. I like the whole bunch of em, Fargus, Chris and Chris and Sawyer etc for all the great games they created in the past and (hopefully) the many more to come. However, these guys who manage the company and whom I'm a fan of, better look in the mirror really hard. It seems they're doing things wrong and others have to pay for their mistakes. I mean hiring a guy and after 1 day laying them off after a day or a week or even a year? This screams inept management I'm sorry to say. You have many more problems in your company if this is going on and I think the wrong people are probably laid off. Besides, you don't go on laying off the technical talent, you usually go to the marketing and sales and start off from there if you are spending more money there than you should. I hope if this ship sinks; it is not for bad management or favoritism, as a fan I would be sad. Uh, Feargus and the guys are the ones who manage the company. I don't think you're really aware of how the company is structured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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