Nothing but Co-Op

[Lord Elvewyn]

I was on Amazon and saw Dungeon Siege 3: Prima Official Game Guide advertised.

 

In the product description it says:

• Choose your role in the game with our comparison of the strengths and skills of all four playable heroes.
  

AND

• Multiplayer section covers 4 player online coop mode, offline multiplayer, and jump in/jump out multiplayer so you don't have to defend Ehb alone!
  

 

To my mind that's pretty convincing proof THERE'S NO ##### MULTIPLAYER! And further there's nothing playable outside the four characters. Okay maybe it won't be so bad. Mass Effect 2 only provides 6 classes to play as and has no inventory as such, pre-mission weapon loadout only, but that's ME not DS.

 

 

 

 

I'm hoping for a revelation but I'm not going to hold my breath. How hard would it be to mod a game to add in true LAN\internet multiplayer capability and class selection\development? Yeah okay that's not modding it's DS4.

[Pidesco]

It was always fairly apparent that all multiplayer modes would be cooperative, so there isn't any big surprise here.

 

Also, as far as I know Obsidian had already stated there were only four playable characters in DS3.

[Starwars]

Yeah, this is all info that's been known since the first details were released basically.

[Tigranes]

On the 'big scale multiplayer' stuff I can see the disappointment, but

 

And further there's nothing playable outside the four characters.

 

...Wasn't this known since the very beginning? Were you expecting, say, easter egg skeletons or something? I suppose that'd be cool but they'd get boring in about 3 seconds.

 

How hard would it be to mod a game to add in ... class selection\development?

 

Extremely hard and time consuming, and if done by devs, extremely time and money consuming since they've taken care to craft 4 unique classes that defy typical classes, integrate them into story, balance game, build item designs, etc.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Gotta wonder, again, what the audience for the game is supposed to be. It's an hybrid that doesn't seem to be hitting the sweet spot for anyone, and I've encountered more than once people on forums being turned off from the news that came out about the game and warning other gamers to ignore it.

 

It's looking very grim for Obsidz.

[funcroc]

I want to leave OEI forum.

[pmp10]

Gotta wonder, again, what the audience for the game is supposed to be. It's an hybrid that doesn't seem to be hitting the sweet spot for anyone, and I've encountered more than once people on forums being turned off from the news that came out about the game and warning other gamers to ignore it.

 

It's looking very grim for Obsidz.

It's a PC franchise heading to consoles.

Of course it may fail expectations of old time fans.

[Sannom]

I want to leave OEI forum.

 

That would be nothing short of the apocalypse . You want to leave 'social stalking' altogether? Assuming you're serious, of course

 

Gotta wonder, again, what the audience for the game is supposed to be.

 

It's not the Diablo crowd nor the Dungeon Siege crowd, I think. Too many changes in the formula of the two previous games. As far as multiplayer and gameplay go, I think it's obvious that they're aiming for an audience that is mostly console-oriented.

[Amentep]

I think the problem - to my mind - has always been that its called Dungeon Siege III and whether its fair or not many people see the III and assume that the game will be exactly like one or two, when in fact they're trying to pull a Fallout 3 to the series more than anything else.

 

Divorcing this game from the series (which for me isn't that far as I wasn't enamored enough with DS1 to try DS2), I've liked what I've read about DSIII based on what it is trying to do, as opposed to judging it based on what its not trying to do.

[Sannom]

I think the problem - to my mind - has always been that its called Dungeon Siege III and whether its fair or not many people see the III and assume that the game will be exactly like one or two, when in fact they're trying to pull a Fallout 3 to the series more than anything else.

 

Same interrogations on my part !

[Starwars]

I want to leave OEI forum.

 

Aww come now, why would you want to leave the forum where we speculate more on whether other people will like the game, or if PR is doing a good job, rather than the game itself?

[rafoca]

I will certainly miss the option to have pets in co-op mode and make them grow giving them weapons and items to eat.

I will also miss the option to choose "nature magic" or "combat magic" based characters.

 

But I will only know if the game will be better than the others when I play it. I am not holding my breath though

[Flouride]

Gotta wonder, again, what the audience for the game is supposed to be. It's an hybrid that doesn't seem to be hitting the sweet spot for anyone, and I've encountered more than once people on forums being turned off from the news that came out about the game and warning other gamers to ignore it.

 

It's looking very grim for Obsidz.

 

Fans of their games and those who enjoyed Dark Alliance games on xbox? Your average forum posters are only intrested in games that look spectacular and are either made by Rockstar or Blizzard or have the words Call of Duty in it.

 

I think you've been saying that since 2007 or something like that and they are still going strong

[WorstUsernameEver]

I think you've been saying that since 2007 or something like that and they are still going strong

 

I joined last year. Also I'd be hard pressed to call NeoGAFfers and goons people that are only interested in games that look spectacular and are either made by Rockstar or Blizzard, but whatever, dude. Also, if the audience Obsidian aims is that of people that liked the Dark Alliance games and their fans, then the sales are going to be disappointingly small. I'm not saying the game is going to be bad, but it was an hybrid, and it's difficult for hybrid to hit the sweet spot. So far, signs point at Obsidian not hitting it.

[Amentep]

I dunno - casual gamers in my experience are more fond of hack/slash games than I think the more die-hard gaming fans are. I think this game is something that'd appeal to my brother, for example, who has never posted on a video game forum as his interest is pretty low key about games.

 

For me - as someone who likes a well made hack/slash game I'm interested in DSIII. So I think the potential market is there - not just from BGDA fans but there were several games of that period that followed roughly the same model that did well (and a bunch more that did poorly); I don't think all of those people who supported those games spontaneously dropped dead...

Edited March 30, 2011 by Amentep

[Sannom]

Fans of their games and those who enjoyed Dark Alliance games on xbox?

 

Yeah pretty much, but WUE has a point, it's not clear. But I think it will become clearer as time and marketing will go buy, some people are going to be turned off, others will be attracted, I think everything will go well in the end.

[Flouride]

I think you've been saying that since 2007 or something like that and they are still going strong

 

I joined last year. Also I'd be hard pressed to call NeoGAFfers and goons people that are only interested in games that look spectacular and are either made by Rockstar or Blizzard, but whatever, dude. Also, if the audience Obsidian aims is that of people that liked the Dark Alliance games and their fans, then the sales are going to be disappointingly small. I'm not saying the game is going to be bad, but it was an hybrid, and it's difficult for hybrid to hit the sweet spot. So far, signs point at Obsidian not hitting it.

 

I'm well aware of that

 

People who post on forums are a huge minority though when it comes to people who actually buy the games. And you didn't really mention which forums you were talking about. Last time I bothered to check NeoGaf (or whatever it is called) the topic got into your normal argument about Obsidian: "OMG they ruined kotor, hate them forever just for it!!11" and with bunch of people saying the opposite...

 

What signs? Few random haters and fans of DS1&2 posting on forums and claiming how Obsidian is ruining DS and how every game they make is buggy? In the end those forum posters won't matter at all. The initial reviews will pretty much decide the game's fate. Let's say the game gets about 88 average metacritic with pretty much every review claiming it to be fun game to play with your friend as local co-op. There's a lack of (proper and fun) hack&slash rpg's on consoles ever since BG:DA2. And boom, there's your sweet spot. As long as people are willing to pay for the game and not just pirate it because they already got L.A Noire that month...

[Flouride]

Fans of their games and those who enjoyed Dark Alliance games on xbox?

 

Yeah pretty much, but WUE has a point, it's not clear. But I think it will become clearer as time and marketing will go buy, some people are going to be turned off, others will be attracted, I think everything will go well in the end.

 

The thing is it's pretty much impossible to predict how a game will fare, since so much rides on whether the marketing manages to get people's attention or not, when your game is coming out (not a week after a massive hit game like RDR) and the damn reviews that are pretty biased half the time.

 

Unless of course your game is a sequel to massive hit game or made by one of few companies that pretty much everyone seems to love

 

And I reckon the DS fans will have the same response as Fallout fans had about Fallout 3. Some liked it, even loved it and some hated it for numerous reasons.

Edited March 30, 2011 by Flouride

[Lord Elvewyn]

On the 'big scale multiplayer' stuff I can see the disappointment, but

 

And further there's nothing playable outside the four characters.

 

...Wasn't this known since the very beginning? Were you expecting, say, easter egg skeletons or something? I suppose that'd be cool but they'd get boring in about 3 seconds.

 

How hard would it be to mod a game to add in ... class selection\development?

 

Extremely hard and time consuming, and if done by devs, extremely time and money consuming since they've taken care to craft 4 unique classes that defy typical classes, integrate them into story, balance game, build item designs, etc.

 

Big scale's relative but I think DS1 permitted at least 8 players, and a lot of modern games allow for 64 players. Server focused games can allow for even more, a couple hundred say. I realise we aren't talking MMO here but still, 4 players?!?!? That's Sega Mega drive console multiplayer limits or the like!

 

4 characters? Yes we knew early that there were only 4 characters. What we didn't know was that there wouldn't be any multiplayer\expanded mode where we could use classes\uber power our avatars ala DS1's SiegeMaster avatars. It's basically offering a singleplayer experience with the option of drop ins if you can convince anyone else to play it. If this wasn't DS maybe there'd be less of an issue, I don't complain about the ME2 class setup for example, but this just seems way (way, way ... ) too restrictive for DS. There seems to be no post-campaign (re)playability. I know console games are promoted as play and trade but PC owners don't trade in games. They buy to keep, and probably for replay value - character, I should probably say avatar in this context though, development, world exploration etc. IF I'm to buy this game, and it's been on pre-order since practically last year, I need to be convinced it's good, and while I do hear occasional good\interesting points, I'm concerned, and growing increasingly disappointed. Okay maybe I'm being the voice of negativity here but if I'm to buy the game I want to make sure it's a game I think good and that I will enjoy. If it seems too bad I guess I can always cancel the order next month, play the demo, if any, sometime i feel like it, then pick it up when\if it makes it to the bargain bin.

 

 

I wasn't serious about the enhancements. I'd kinda worked out for myself that it might be a major effort hence the DS4 reference.

[Lord Elvewyn]

I think the problem - to my mind - has always been that its called Dungeon Siege III and whether its fair or not many people see the III and assume that the game will be exactly like one or two, when in fact they're trying to pull a Fallout 3 to the series more than anything else.

 

Divorcing this game from the series (which for me isn't that far as I wasn't enamored enough with DS1 to try DS2), I've liked what I've read about DSIII based on what it is trying to do, as opposed to judging it based on what its not trying to do.

 

Agreed. That could be the major problem. This is supposed to be the third in the DS series, and it's making radical changes, and not for the better. Maybe it's not a design fail but a marketing fail? If they marketed it as say Dungeon Siege: Restoration of the King (okay a nod to the movie which everyone loved ) the latest and greatest console game there'd be no issues. But it's being marketed as the latest Dungeon Siege game for PC and it's headed for an epic FAIL.

 

I loved DS1. I'd rate it as one of the greatest games ever. Gamespot 'only' rate it 8+/10 so still pretty good. Yes very much casual play and limited storyline but still brilliant and open to character development. Not sure how many people made SiegeMaster. It's something I'd like to try again myself. DS2 wasn't as good to my mind, more depressing storyline, but there were enough positive changes to offset the negatives, with the exception that I wasn't so keen on the story\expansion requirement.

 

For me what DS3's not doing is largely what puts me off. What it does do, set characters, Co-Op, character world interaction etc I'm of mixed sentiments about. I'm not keen on the three characters revealed so far though maybe the last one, the Alchemist, will do the trick for me. Co-Op's not bad but it's not a necessity. World interactions are interesting, sounds a bit like the ME->ME2->ME3 world changes. The graphics that I've seen seem fairly good but then DS is 9 years old now, so they should be. Um offhand I can't really think of anything new that really sells it, though plenty of issues. Maybe there'll be some positive previews in the next few weeks?

Edited March 31, 2011 by Lord Elvewyn

[hopfrog16]

Big scale's relative but I think DS1 permitted at least 8 players, and a lot of modern games allow for 64 players. Server focused games can allow for even more, a couple hundred say. I realise we aren't talking MMO here but still, 4 players?!?!? That's Sega Mega drive console multiplayer limits or the like!

 

Eh... Don't forget that DS2 only had 4 player multiplayer too (unless you used some mods to alter that). I can understand where you're coming from, though. When I first learned about the changes done to DS3, it irked me as well (especially the lack of modding support). That being said, however, the only thing I care about in the end is if they can make fun multiplayer that I can geek on for a while with friends. =) The local co-op sounds great, but there really isn't enough info on the internet co-op (as far as I know) to make any final judgments on how it will be.

 

As far as this game being an exact reincarnation of the old game we love.... I don't think this, or any other sequels in the future will satisfy that. Good non MMO multiplayer RPGs are a thing of the past (except for the upcoming Diablo 3, hopefully) for the most part it seems... Plus times change, and stuff that's fun for older gamers would be a bore for the newer generations maybe, heh. So I remain cautiously optimistic that DS3 will be a good multiplayer game, too. Even if the changes to multiplayer won't be AS fun for fans of the old game, I suspect (or at least a different multiplayer experience altogether, heh. That might not be so bad if it's done right). I have faith in Obsidian's ability to make games... So let's see what they come up with. =)

[Zoma]

64 players for modern games? Any examples besides the Battlefield series, MMOs and Neverwinter Nights 1/2 multiplayer with uber servers?

[Tigranes]

It's still very raer to actually have 64 players playing the same instance outside of MMOs. We're only just getting over the 8 limit in FPS.

 

Eh... Don't forget that DS2 only had 4 player multiplayer too

 

Kind of curious what was so fun about DS1/2 multiplayer for the fans that you want to see again? Was there anything special about it?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Meh, Co-op is fun. Thus I will buy this game even if it 'only has co-op.'

[Lord Elvewyn]

64 players for modern games? Any examples besides the Battlefield series, MMOs and Neverwinter Nights 1/2 multiplayer with uber servers?

 

Bettlefield's the obvious. I'd say FPS generally though - Team Fortress 2 etc

 

Freelancer? I think I saw a server with 200 spots available. I thought there was a 64 player limit on the game but maybe not?

 

I'd have to check what I've got. Of late it's been Total War and Mass Effect, neither of which are multiplayer focused