Dragon Age II (spoilers)

[Maria Caliban]

I noticed that no one in the other thread was talking about the game but instead BioWare, BioWare's forum, EA, SecuROM, etc. These are all excellent subjects, but I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts and experiences with the game itself.

 

Right now, I'm 38 hours into the game playing a mage Hawke.

 

In general, I've found the combat, story, and characters superior to Origins. The game has far more reactivity to the PC's decisions than any other BioWare game I've played, and it feels as though BioWare has borrowed liberally from The Witcher and Alpha Protocol when it comes to C&C.

 

I noticed the decisions in the game pack more of a punch. My fairly good-natured PC has watched her attempts to be just, merciful, and nice backfire horribly at times. I find myself stopping to think out the repercussions of my actions quite often.

 

I've have both of the female romances betray me. They're still in my group, but it's very that the companions have goals and desires that reach far beyond the PC. This is a stark contrast from DA:O where the Warden was in charge and the companions basically along for the ride, save for Alistar's sudden outburst at the end.

 

As the plot goes along, Hawke rises in the world. While you get the benefits of being an Important Person, Hawke is treated less as a hero but more a means to an end. Both the companions and the three main power blocs in the city want to use Hawke, and getting ahead is only done by furthering someone else's agenda.

 

My problems with the game are mostly technical.

 

The recycled areas. Oh my goodness, the recycled areas. When I started Act 2, I explored an unmarked cave structure and was shocked to see it was a map I hadn't seen before.

 

The maps themselves are tunnels. Lovely tunnels. I think this is a very pretty game but I wouldn't mind a few wide open spaces. I have to wonder how much of this is because it's meant to run on consoles.

 

The companion AI is either my best friend or my worst enemy. I understand why Verric runs away when a group of enemies rush him, but a few times he's managed to trigger another group of hostiles. By the time I notice his health is rapidly dropping, he's usually made it half-way across the map. Aveline starts each combat by posing dramatically and doing nothing while Isabela tosses herself at the highest ranked opponent.

 

Combat is can be wonderfully fun, but a number of the fights are almost sadistic. Do I really need to fight a desire demon, revenant, arcane horror, and rage demon *all at once* while small waves of abominations, shades, and corpse archers continue to spawn? And this is for simple sidequest where I pick up books!

 

The boss battles are much more involved than in Origins. The Rock Wrath was multi-stage and it had about six different abilities.

 

I haven't fought a high dragon but dragons and mature dragons are very simple fights. Blood mages and the scarabas (qunari mages) are probably the scariest thing to see on the battlefield in regular encounters.

 

Anyways, thoughts?

[Tel Aviv]

What's your opinion of the friendship/rivalry scale, Maria?

[Tale]

My experiences are very much the same. I haven't had my attempts backfire, but every time something comes up, I'm afraid they might. Last night I did a quest to catch a killer. I get there, he claims to be innocent. And for the first time in a Bioware game, I'm... not sure. Could this little tit be lying to me? Or did the guy who sent me lie? Is there a third option?

 

Edit: And another situation I'd like the stress. This was the first game, ever, that I killed a character begging for their life. But they made it more personal than anything I'd seen before. The character was truly a threat. And I felt I had to. I don't play characters that do what they "had to." But oh god...

 

The whole Chantry/Mage thing is what I wished DAO was. Dragon Age is supposed to be oppressive to the Mages, but paint that as a necessary evil. DAO didn't really do that, it didn't come across as oppressive, and barely came across as necessary either. DA2 does. You have seemingly good people being threatened with death from Templars. And you have other seemingly good people turning into monsters. It's a recurring theme and not just some little boy who went nuts. Well, it kind of does. Apparently the Templars have Nazis. "The Tranquil solution to the Mage problem." I am not making that up.

 

I like that there's no central villain (so far). People love to talk about seeing a political plot and that seems to be what the game is so far.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Tale

[Azure79]

I know the fight you're talking about Maria. I think it was the hardest fight I've faced so far. I eventually got lucky with a stagger + chain lightning combo and I had everyone retreat into the corridor while my warrior Hawke blocked the door.

 

I am liking the game so far. You are given a lot of choices in regards to apostates and templars and I like seeing the consequences of my choices. I do get the feeling that Bioware is trying too hard and beating me over the head with all the 'See the Chantry is oppresive!' or 'See! free mages will become EVIL!' thing, but overall it's a good story. I look forward to see how everything comes together.

 

My main complaint is that there are no diplomacy related skills. Every encounter seems to end in a fight and while I do enjoy the combat, I would also like other options to solve an encounter. I want the option to talk someone down or convince them to surrender, lie, deceive, cheat etc. This is definitely a step down from more traditional RPGs and something I miss in this game. Every ability in DAO is combat based so every encounter ends in combat.

 

@Tale: that murder mystery ending is pretty morbid.

[Volourn]

"Every encounter seems to end in a fight and while I do enjoy the combat, I would also like other options to solve an encounter."

 

There are. One example is after finding out where Anders is, you step out and a bunch of Warden loyalists threaten you as they think you are plotting to turn in a mage apostate they like. You can have your sister talk them down and avoid a fight.

 

" I want the option to talk someone down or convince them to surrender, lie, deceive, cheat etc."

 

See above.

 

 

" This is definitely a step down from more traditional RPGs and something I miss in this game. "

 

Misnomber. 'Traditional' RPGs don't have dialogue or ways to avoid fights. RPGs like FO are not traditional. Plus, BIO's game to fame BG1 didn't have that many quests or ways to avoid comabt.

 

 

I do agree the missing non combat skills is very dissapointing. Itemc reation isn't fun anymore, and alck of actual dialogue skills isn't cool.

[greylord]

My experiences are very much the same. I haven't had my attempts backfire, but every time something comes up, I'm afraid they might. Last night I did a quest to catch a killer. I get there, he claims to be innocent. And for the first time in a Bioware game, I'm... not sure. Could this little tit be lying to me? Or did the guy who sent me lie? Is there a third option?

 

If it's the one I'm thinking of, I killed him. He's guilty. Hope you didn't let him live. At least I judged him guilty.

 

Or maybe it's the other one?

Edited March 11, 2011 by greylord

[Volourn]

Just ebcause you say someone guilty doesn't make it so. I'm not saying youa re wrong in this case since I haven't done the quest yet but.. just saying.. your leap of logic here doesn't neccessarily fit. Heh.

[greylord]

Just ebcause you say someone guilty doesn't make it so. I'm not saying youa re wrong in this case since I haven't done the quest yet but.. just saying.. your leap of logic here doesn't neccessarily fit. Heh.

 

You are absolutely right. If it's the daughter one...I call him a pedo and simply judge him guilty. If it's the other...

[GreasyDogMeat]

I'm only 9 hours in so far but I'm enjoying the game. I really like the new redesign of the old races and the look of Kirkwall. It feels much less generic than the first game. Elves & Qunari finally look like different races, and not people with pointed ears or large people with grey skin.

 

The inventory seems to take a bit longer to navigate, but I like how new Lore entries are clearly marked. That was a big problem for me with Dragon Age 1. The entries would be placed low on the list and the check would be deactivated as you scrolled down so if you didn't catch the name of the entry you had to sort through or guess which hadn't been read yet.

 

I'm enjoying the more personal story and the speaking main characters so far. For once, not only are the default appearances excellent but the voices as well for the main characters. I still ended up customizing my Hawke though.

 

Biggest disappointment so far is having to constantly mash the a-button during combat. I'm guessing they wanted to make the game feel more actiony. Killing my thumbs!

[Tale]

I noticed something really really neat last night that I forgot to mention. If you hit someone hard enough with spirit damage, they start to freak out. Anders hit a guy with his staff and the guy just started screaming. Right before he exploded. I guess Anders got a crit.

 

I'm really digging the elemental effects.

[MrBrown]

The companion AI is either my best friend or my worst enemy. I understand why Verric runs away when a group of enemies rush him, but a few times he's managed to trigger another group of hostiles. By the time I notice his health is rapidly dropping, he's usually made it half-way across the map. Aveline starts each combat by posing dramatically and doing nothing while Isabela tosses herself at the highest ranked opponent.

Have you tried changing the Behavior box at the top of the Tactics screen?

 

 

My main complaint is that there are no diplomacy related skills. Every encounter seems to end in a fight and while I do enjoy the combat, I would also like other options to solve an encounter. I want the option to talk someone down or convince them to surrender, lie, deceive, cheat etc. This is definitely a step down from more traditional RPGs and something I miss in this game. Every ability in DAO is combat based so every encounter ends in combat.

There are. The game tracks your choices, and will provide extra options to solve situations, if you have used specific choices enough. Peaceful solution, etc.

 

I dunno the exact math on how this works.

Edited March 11, 2011 by MrBrown

[Tale]

So... anyone seen any Genlocks?

[tripleRRR]

Nope, only darkspawn I've seen are hurlocks and ogres.

[Maria Caliban]

BioWare's persuasion system in DA II is

[Maria Caliban]

My experiences are very much the same. I haven't had my attempts backfire, but every time something comes up, I'm afraid they might. Last night I did a quest to catch a killer. I get there, he claims to be innocent. And for the first time in a Bioware game, I'm... not sure. Could this little tit be lying to me? Or did the guy who sent me lie? Is there a third option?

 

I assume you're talking about the white lilies quest. I let the guy go, later found another body, and told a templar in the area that he was a blood mage and apostate.

 

Edit: And another situation I'd like the stress. This was the first game, ever, that I killed a character begging for their life. But they made it more personal than anything I'd seen before. The character was truly a threat. And I felt I had to. I don't play characters that do what they "had to." But oh god...

 

At the brothel?

 

The whole Chantry/Mage thing is what I wished DAO was. Dragon Age is supposed to be oppressive to the Mages, but paint that as a necessary evil. DAO didn't really do that, it didn't come across as oppressive, and barely came across as necessary either. DA2 does. You have seemingly good people being threatened with death from Templars. And you have other seemingly good people turning into monsters. It's a recurring theme and not just some little boy who went nuts. Well, it kind of does. Apparently the Templars have Nazis. "The Tranquil solution to the Mage problem." I am not making that up.

 

I just did the Tranquil Solution quest last night before I headed to bed. Prior to that one, I did the quest where I journeyed into the Fade to help the elf-blooded dreamer. I also read all the notes in the white lilies quest.

 

What I like isn't so much that Otto Alark is wrong but that I can sympathize with his viewpoint. I seriously considered making the kid a tranquil just because he was dangerous. And right after you kill Otto, Anders loses it and might have killed another mage simply because of the spirit inside of him.

 

Anders was a nice guy and passed his harrowing. Justice was a good spirit. Together they're a monster.

 

Act 2 feels a bit like stepping into a bear trap. I liked it when Aveline points out that well-meaning mercenaries do more damage than good. The further along the story I go, the more I understand that while Hawke is attempting to help (while rising to power) she's igniting the city's various powder kegs.

[Tale]

At the brothel?

That's the one.

[sorophx]

So... anyone seen any Genlocks?

I don't remember the difference between hur- and gen-

 

but I did see a screeny of an Emissary, who looked a bit different, could've been a Genlock

[Tale]

So... anyone seen any Genlocks?

I don't remember the difference between hur- and gen-

 

but I did see a screeny of an Emissary, who looked a bit different, could've been a Genlock

Genlocks were basically Goblins. The Emissaries I've seen are definitely not Genlocks. I'm thinking this might be the consequence of higher detail and consoles. They can't have that much model variety, so it's just Hurlocks. I'm probably wrong, demon/undead infested areas get plenty of variety.

[Volourn]

"BioWare's persuasion system in DA II is

[Enoch]

So... anyone seen any Genlocks?

I don't remember the difference between hur- and gen-

 

but I did see a screeny of an Emissary, who looked a bit different, could've been a Genlock

Genlocks were basically Goblins. The Emissaries I've seen are definitely not Genlocks. I'm thinking this might be the consequence of higher detail and consoles. They can't have that much model variety, so it's just Hurlocks. I'm probably wrong, demon/undead infested areas get plenty of variety.

IIRC,

Hurlocks = corrupted humans

Genlocks = corrupted dwarves

[Tale]

You recall correctly. I haven't seen Shrieks (Elves), either. I wanted to know how they'd look in the new art direction.

 

Oddly enough, I have the collector's edition guide, and a lot of the page art is old Hurlocks. Though maybe Disciples (who also don't seem to appear).

[tripleRRR]

I've finished the game and I haven't seen anything besides hurlocks of various types, bolter/grunt/emissary and ogres.

[Volourn]

Just reached the Deep Roads (poor Sandal ). I'm really starting to love this game more than DA1 despite certain issues. 18 hours in, and am level 11.

 

One of the best things about the game is the handle BIO has on the *consequences* of your choices. A lot of quests open up other soemtimes depending on how you solved the first quest. While I miss the dialogue skills, I love the m,ultiple ways to approach dialogue and where greed isn't enccessarily considered 'evil', and sometimes the 'nice' chocie is actually the wrong. ie.

 

Good stuff.

[sorophx]

got a glimpse of DA2 today. somewhere in the second act (?).

 

there's this area, full of undead (a dungeon in the Dalish Elves' lands) with a nexus (?) golem trader in the last part. I think it's some kind of a gauntlet. three rooms with 2-5 waves each. the last was particularly brutal, with two Rage Demons, one Desire Demon, two Revenants, one Arcane Horror, four Abominations and twenty Shades... we had to resort to kiting during the last leg of the fight (don't know what we would do without mass heal and revive). burned through 10 healing potions...

 

this game is now officially a dungeon romp. for two hours I've been watching the same routine; take a couple of steps, spawn a group of enemies (I saw everything, a Monstrous Spider and a Mature Dragon as a finishing touch) - all in just two areas and adjoining dungeons.

 

so I hear it has a good story? because even BG Dark Alliance II has better encounter design.

 

oh, and there's apparently this one book (Evil Book), that keeps popping everywhere. at first it gives Hawke some XP in return for never seeking it out again. but you will see it at least 3 more times. every time you interact with it you get two options; either to destroy it or to take it. taking it summons a group of undead (what a surprise) - easy XP. what's the deal with that? I'm genuinely curious.

[MrBrown]

oh, and there's apparently this one book (Evil Book), that keeps popping everywhere. at first it gives Hawke some XP in return for never seeking it out again. but you will see it at least 3 more times. every time you interact with it you get two options; either to destroy it or to take it. taking it summons a group of undead (what a surprise) - easy XP. what's the deal with that? I'm genuinely curious.

 

It's a quest. Read your journal.