Dragon Age 2

[HoonDing]

yes it is, because your party is constantly being overrun by hordes of enemies.

So what?

[MrBrown]

Yes, the combat is more fluid. It's also easier in general. Combos are available right off the bat (I like this) but the mage AI is aggressively stupid* and using a power will sometimes cause you to stop attacking.

 

Will the full game have combat tactics configuring like DAO?

Edited February 21, 2011 by MrBrown

[sorophx]

So what?

so, the AI in the demo is pretty stupid, mages keep trying to melee, warriors don't use their abilities half the time. all the NPCs keep getting killed. I played through DAO with party AI turned off and it seems I would do the same in DA2. that's why you need the pause, to give out orders to 4 characters.

 

Will the full game have combat tactics configuring like DAO?

I believe the demo has 'em.

[Maria Caliban]

I played 2H warrior once and DW rogue once. While rogues are squishier than warriors are, I found their basic CC ability and single target damage made the beginning much easier.

 

Instead of investing in frost and heroic aura, I gave Bethany the passive fire elemental boost and the rain of fire spell. For the last battle I went fireball + rain of fire + Varric's AOE arrow attack and wiped out all the normal mobs. Four more enemies spawned at the back of the chantry so I left Aveline tanking Hayden (boss) and had everyone else fight the spawns.

 

The fight went from being about 8 minutes long to 3 minutes. I wonder how a two mage party would fare.

 

Yes, the combat is more fluid. It's also easier in general. Combos are available right off the bat (I like this) but the mage AI is aggressively stupid* and using a power will sometimes cause you to stop attacking.

 

Will the full game have combat tactics configuring like DAO?

Yes. However, I can't read German so I'm not sure how I'd do that.

 

I believe one person indicated you could go: 'Cast Fireball at 2+ enemies that are attacking 1 ally.'

[Nepenthe]

I'd like to know whether pausing in combat is still necessary.

Your difficulty level will probably be the key here. I'd suspect that (console) normal allows for mostly pause-free gameplay, while higher difficulties will be more in the BeeGee school of party control. In fact, I'm more than suspecting it, I remember somebody telling me that, but no way I'm gonna go digging for a source right now.

 

p.s. Yer all a bunch of stinking pirates. Mateys. (Or did you suddenly start buying a German mag without speaking the language?)

[sorophx]

no no, I haven't played the demo myself, it's my friend from germany, he tried it and told me all about it

[Malcador]

p.s. Yer all a bunch of stinking pirates. Mateys. (Or did you suddenly start buying a German mag without speaking the language?)

 

Weird case of piracy then, didn't think they DRM'd up demos of all things and the magazine let it out, rather than it being leaked, no ? In any case, would download it, but at my cap for the month, heh.

[Ice9]

I figure I can wait the two days and enjoy it in English.

[Tale]

p.s. Yer all a bunch of stinking pirates. Mateys. (Or did you suddenly start buying a German mag without speaking the language?)

I know the language. Anyone know how I can get a hold of the mag?

 

Before tomorrow.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Tale

[Gfted1]

I dont understand. Why would they delete threads about a demo they created and was properly released in a magazine they pay to advertize with?

[sorophx]

maybe because it doesn't count towards their 1000000 downloads goal

[Maria Caliban]

I assume that the moderators didn't know it was legitimate. It was the weekend, so they might not have been able to find someone to ask.

 

maybe because it doesn't count towards their 1000000 downloads goal

It's not downloads, but sign-ins.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Maria Caliban

[Gromnir]

I assume that the moderators didn't know it was legitimate. It was the weekend, so they might not have been able to find someone to ask.

 

am gonna guess that the problem were more to do with the board monkeys inability to define "legitimate." no doubt priestly and co. were prepared to delete any thread related to a pirated demo, but what to do when a few members o' the master race goes ahead with an early release demo so as to be matching their magazine distribution? is not pirated, but it don't correspond to the release schedule neither. so, is it legitimate? *shrug* perhaps priestly chose to ere on the side o' caution and delete. is admitted silly, but is easy to see how a knee-jerk deletion policy could take hold, particularly in the absence o' anybody with genuine authority.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nepenthe]

p.s. Yer all a bunch of stinking pirates. Mateys. (Or did you suddenly start buying a German mag without speaking the language?)

 

Weird case of piracy then, didn't think they DRM'd up demos of all things and the magazine let it out, rather than it being leaked, no ?

So now we (re)define piracy as something that involves both a leak and circumvention of DRM? Did you just, in your argument, manage to validate all the DRM crap they put us through?

 

I'd draw you a picture, but I don't have the time: people are distributing something that is only supposed to be available to the subscribers of a (german) magazine, not released to the public.

 

And yeah, I don't particularly care about this subject one way or the other, support of piracy on this board is just becoming more and more blatant by the day (I point in the direction of what was said in the Witcher 2 thread earlier today), which is why I kind of felt obligated to point it out here, as well. Our brave moderators just seem more concerned with policing Bioware than the board these days...

[Malcador]

Well usually pirates have to defeat something for game, like the DRM, rather than essentially mirroring something. I thought they put it out in the magazine, but if it was limited to the premium sheep then I guess it is a tad dishonest as the magazine didn't get a sale as part of it. Still, I'd be pressed to call someone playing a freaking DEMO this way a pirate.

 

What's with your constant Bioware victim complex, anyway ? As for the support of piracy, if you mean sorophx's comment - he is right that is a challenge of sorts, but the guy's not exactly saying "**** yeah!! SKIDROW!"

Edited February 21, 2011 by Malcador

[Nepenthe]

I'm just refusing to jump on the "Let's all bash Bioware so we can feel better about ourselves!" bandwagon.

 

I owe them no loyalty or allegiance, and they have let me down in the past - just a lot less than any other developer.

 

My (semi-)legal opinion on piracy would stand for any other developer/publisher - unlike a lot of people here, I just don't regularly crap in the threads that discuss games I'm not interested in. And yeah, ripping an unprotected CD and distributing the music is also piracy.

[Rosbjerg]

hear! hear! Nepethe

[Malcador]

Yes, you're one cut above, etc. I did mention it's typical for a game, are some games that are released without any checks at all. I've never checked those PCG CDs, but wonder if they have some TOS that forbids this sort of thing. Not aware of such a bandwagon, sure it's not just people being negative across the board, and it's just you ?

Edited February 21, 2011 by Malcador

[213374U]

I'd draw you a picture, but I don't have the time: people are distributing something that is only supposed to be available to the subscribers of a (german) magazine, not released to the public.

Maybe yourself or someone else with knowledge of the specifics of German copyright law and TOS of the demo itself can explain how exactly this constitutes "piracy". Don't take it personally, but if you don't have time to lay it out for us, I don't have time to give a flying ****.

 

 

I'm just refusing to jump on the "Let's all bash Bioware so we can feel better about ourselves!" bandwagon.

But dude, this is the new sh!t.

[Spider]

I can't say about german copyright law, but I can say in respect to swedish law.

 

Creating a copy of a work you don't have the rights to is copyright infringement. It doesn't matter what the work is, if you're not allowed to create that copy, you're not. And yes downloading is to create a copy.

 

Making the demo available would also be copyright infringement, but from a different angle.

 

I'm pretty sure US copyright law is similar.

 

That's what the law says. Perosnally I have a hard time being upset by anyone downloading a demo a few days early, but it's still technically against the law in a lot of places.

[213374U]

I can't say about german copyright law, but I can say in respect to swedish law.

 

Creating a copy of a work you don't have the rights to is copyright infringement. It doesn't matter what the work is, if you're not allowed to create that copy, you're not. And yes downloading is to create a copy.

I asked because legislation is not homogeneous and I'm pretty certain it's not copyright infringement here in Spain, despite attempts by EU bureaucrats to undermine national sovereignty.

 

At any rate, do you have any information on the relevant TOS? Generally, demos are distributed freely so long as no profit is made. The problem is that the demo was released earlier, and so the only available source in practice is the mag - in theory you would -will- be able to download it from any number of gaming sites. I think the excessive hyperbole benefits neither side, here.

 

Also, what happens when the demo is officially released tomorrow, does it cease being piracy? Or is it piracy still if it's downloaded from MU instead of the EA servers?

[Nepenthe]

I can't say about german copyright law, but I can say in respect to swedish law.

 

Creating a copy of a work you don't have the rights to is copyright infringement. It doesn't matter what the work is, if you're not allowed to create that copy, you're not. And yes downloading is to create a copy.

I asked because legislation is not homogeneous and I'm pretty certain it's not copyright infringement here in Spain, despite attempts by EU bureaucrats to undermine national sovereignty.

Copyright law is one of the most internationally harmonized areas of law, starting with the Berne Convention. What Spider basically said is on the money. In case you didn't notice the thread a couple of days go, Spain is on the "Tortuga list" of countries not giving a **** about copyright holders' rights. I think the document specifically mentions, that digital copying has been determined to be "personal use" in all cases - contrary to the rest of the world.

 

For the record, I was mostly joking when I brought it up originally, I only became interested when people started making bs claims about lack of drm allowing it. I also personally think that copyright law is the field for people who pulled wings off flies as kids, but a total ignorance of what, in fact, constitutes a copyright violation is kind of disturbing.

 

The reason I can't be bothered to explain this stuff is that you could read it all up on the wikipedia in half the time it takes me to summarise it here, and even if I went to the trouble, somebody would bitch about me using wikipedia as a source - which I would do, since all my other copyright sources are either in Finnish or behind the unversity intranet.

[213374U]

In case you didn't notice the thread a couple of days go, Spain is on the "Tortuga list" of countries not giving a **** about copyright holders' rights. I think the document specifically mentions, that digital copying has been determined to be "personal use" in all cases - contrary to the rest of the world.

Feels good man.

 

Anyway, I'm still interested on the distribution permission details for the demo - are copies from the mag under different restrictions than from other sources? This is one odd case of "piracy", where the good being pirated is free, (not even the mag is charging anything for it, even if they clearly stand to gain from releasing early). This whole argument hinges on the assumption that making copies of the demo is copyright infringement. But is it? Demos are, generally, distributed freely.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, Wiki is as good a source as any. It's not like any source is above reproach; this is the internets after all...

[sorophx]

(not even the mag is charging anything for it, even if they clearly stand to gain from releasing early).

this says it all, really. it looks more like Bioware protecting their partners and not themselves in this case

[Nepenthe]

In case you didn't notice the thread a couple of days go, Spain is on the "Tortuga list" of countries not giving a **** about copyright holders' rights. I think the document specifically mentions, that digital copying has been determined to be "personal use" in all cases - contrary to the rest of the world.

Feels good man.

 

Anyway, I'm still interested on the distribution permission details for the demo - are copies from the mag under different restrictions than from other sources? This is one odd case of "piracy", where the good being pirated is free, (not even the mag is charging anything for it, even if they clearly stand to gain from releasing early). This whole argument hinges on the assumption that making copies of the demo is copyright infringement. But is it? Demos are, generally, distributed freely.

Unless it is specifically allowed by the copyright holder, making copies constitutes a copyright violation. In this case, the permission to distribute hasn't been granted, yet. I'm sure we'll see today how they want it to be distributed.

 

Sure, this is the equivalent of jaywalking in copyright crime, but even jaywalking is illegal - and I'm sure most people understand that part.