Bioware's New Game

[Volourn]

"I'm sure they'll do it right, but I doubt they will."

 

Say what? This doesn't even make any sense.

 

P.S. Antyone who claims BG wasn't successful, popular, and genre defining simply ebcause they disliked it fail big time.

 

Of course, they missed the point as well. the claim was one shouldn't try to do something they never did before as it is destined to fail. The medical doctors proved that theory wrong 10+ years ago.

 

R00fles!

[Hurlshort]

"I'm sure they'll do it right, but I doubt they will."

 

Say what? This doesn't even make any sense.

 

He is saying that if Bioware implements timed dialogue, he believes it will be done right. He doubts they will implement it at all though.

[Nepenthe]

Source has 0 credibility. Moving on until a more serious source appears.

It's a press event. With Ray and Greg. In public. With a lot of "journalists" in earshot.

 

I mean I know we're not big fans of black people around here but geez.

 

Incidentally, Bitmob has a nice profile on the dude, who seems like your average fan. The best thing about him is that you can't endlessly bitch about how he's not a "game journalist" and how "game journalism" is a sham, because he doesn't walk around with that pretension.

 

And really, what other commentator can you name who would call out Bioware's brand new mechanic as indebted to another recently released game, to their faces, at a press conference? Homework assignment: Go around looking at other sites who mention it and see if they do. Bet you they don't! Cuz they're impartially reporting on the genius of Bioware. Get this guy into the White House Press Corps (or maybe not, cuz he's black).

Thanks for fixating on what I said before I saw the video and changed my opinion on the matter. I could quote my revised comments for your convenience, but I won't, because my landlord's having brilliant xmasy ideas and I'm feeling pissy.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I mean I know we're not big fans of black people around here but geez.

 

Get this guy into the White House Press Corps (or maybe not, cuz he's black).

The video starts, and someone starts... I don't know... having a seizure or something. They start spouting off words that don't rhyme or flow and it makes my ears bleed. Every race has these seizures from time to time. I've heard these seizures referred to as 'rap'. Apparently though, disliking it makes one a racist, even though I happened to be listening to a black artist on windows media player which I paused to listen to that video.

 

Always one dumb ass who needs to turn everything into a racial issue. You should send a resume to Al Sharpton.

[Pop]

Hey Pop. I think Daily Mail has 0 credibility. Am I a racist too?

So who's the BBC in this analogy? Who's the Guardian? Who's the NYT?

 

The point being, highbrow game forumites have been pissy about the role of game journalism since Oblivion started getting 10.0s at the very latest, but I don't think I've ever seen people rush to "THIS SITE IS ILLEGITIMATE" with quite this level of knee-jerk fervor. This indicates to me that either (a) highbrow game forumites do, despite all their protestations, believe in the real legitimacy of "game journalism" and the professional standards that game news sites supposedly have, and this site obviously does not live up to the standards set by the industry, or (b) there is something else about this particular website that makes it even more odious than any other would-be "game journalism" site, such that highbrow game forumites would have such a viscerally negative response to it. Both explanations are plausible. But I can only take the long history of game journalism criticism on this site and others at face value and believe that they really do think that gaming journalism as a concept is illegitimate (and I'd agree with them!) So that leaves only (b). And I can't really see anything that would draw such ire beyond the fact that he's a dude who happens to be black, is boisterous and excitable in demeanor, uses a lot of slang and carries around a ridiculous wrestling championship belt. The fact that he's open about the fact that he's just there to talk about games he's excited about and doesn't pay lip service to bogus "journalistic standards" that nobody really takes seriously should make him more appealing, not less. He's honest! What's the problem? Obvs, it's that he acts in a way that many young black men do, and we can't have that! No sir.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Pop

[Thorton_AP]

Where does he call out BioWare for stating that their idea was brand new?

[WorstUsernameEver]

You'd think that people here would be more enthusiastic about that guy considering he's one of the few that goes all excited about Alpha Protocol.

[Thorton_AP]

I have no issue with the guy. It's just a lot of video and I don't want to go through it all haha.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Well, the press-thingie is really after the intro anyway, from what I can see. The intro is pretty long, though.

[entrerix]

yeah cmon i didnt watch the video but the guy says good stuff about alpha protocol, how casual of a gamer could he really be? I think halo player #317764 has never even heard of AP and would turn off their system if asked to play a game with the amount of reading involved in a game like that.

 

i'd trust his review of mass effect 3 more than many many people simply because he asked that question.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I'm personally not sure if I'd want to see dialogue time limits in Mass Effect though. Certainly not for all dialogue. The structure is completely different from Alpha Protocol.

[sorophx]

QTE is one of the things that will bring destruction to video games, eventually

[entrerix]

i hope if they do add time limits its only on certain situations (ie just like the way the paragon renegade moments are in ME2) not every single dialogue.

 

generally though, i actually prefer having time to think about my response (and read the ACTUAL LINES) in my rpg games. in my action games i don't really care, but i do like having *choices* in my action games, but I consider it a bonus, not a requirement.

[WorstUsernameEver]

QTE is one of the things that will bring destruction to video games, eventually

 

Timed dialogue =/= QTE

[Pop]

I'm personally not sure if I'd want to see dialogue time limits in Mass Effect though. Certainly not for all dialogue. The structure is completely different from Alpha Protocol.

That's what I'm concerned about as well. AP's narrative design was made with the DSS in mind and I doubt that Bioware has done the same with ME3. At the very least that means we won't see the intricacy of C&C we got in AP.

 

Also one of the best things said by devs on the bioboards re: DA2 was that, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Content that 90% of players won't see in a single playthrough should not be implemented". So, you know, there's that.

[sorophx]

Timed dialogue =/= QTE

hm? I thought QTE is when you have a few seconds to press a certain button. if this isn't QTE, what the hell QTE is then?

[Tigranes]

QTE's are often abstracted. Adding a timer to a game mechanic without changing the rest doesn't make it a QTE, I think. You don't call RT combat a QTE version of TB.

[sorophx]

QTE's are often abstracted. Adding a timer to a game mechanic without changing the rest doesn't make it a QTE, I think.

but didn't Obsidian actually change the whole mechanic with AP? you don't get dialogue lines, you have 10 seconds to press 1 of 3 buttons with varying results which are sometimes unpredictable.

[Thorton_AP]

If you want to abstract that to a quicktime event then you can probably go crazy.

 

 

Quicktime events were more typically of the "You're walking along and then suddenly something bad comes at you. A marker pops up on the screen for how you're supposed to respond and you have limited time to respond to it. If you push the button you get a tangible reward (not dying, avoiding bad guys, phat lewt). If you miss it, then something bad happens (death, an extra wave of bad guys, and so forth)."

 

Alpha Protocol did not really have a reward/penalty system for responding (aside from perhaps not saying the line you meant to say). Each choice was relatively equal.

[sorophx]

Alpha Protocol did not really have a reward/penalty system for responding (aside from perhaps not saying the line you meant to say). Each choice was relatively equal.

you're probably right.

 

but whenever I hear about AP's dialogue, this comes to mind:

You're walking along and then suddenly something bad comes at you. A marker pops up on the screen for how you're supposed to respond and you have limited time to respond to it. If you push the button you get a tangible reward (not dying, avoiding bad guys, phat lewt). If you miss it, then something bad happens (death, an extra wave of bad guys, and so forth).

 

so, yeah, in my book QTE=timed dialogue. which isn't necessarily accurate. still, I think QTEs influenced the decision to put that mechanic into AP

[Maria Caliban]

Interesting idea. I first saw timed dialogue in Indigo Prophecy by Quadratic Dreams, and their next game, Heavy Rain, was apparently full of QTE.

 

While they might be separate to some, I think they serve the same design purpose of a simple gameplay system that gives a sense of urgency while not disrupting the narrative.

[Thorton_AP]

Then you've heard the wrong thing about Alpha Protocol's conversation system. Typically the "rewards/penalties" only attributed to approval ratings, which can be considered a benefit going one way or another.

 

 

If you wish to boil down quick time Events to stuff that must be done within an appreciable time, then anything where a level of passivity results in some sort of consequence of any sort is a quick time events.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Thorton_AP

[Hassat Hunter]

I can see it work in combat dialogue (enemies aren't going to wait an hour for you to say something).

Not quite when talking to your staff on the Normandy though.

[Hell Kitty]

I think they serve the same design purpose of a simple gameplay system that gives a sense of urgency while not disrupting the narrative.

 

This is true, although in an actual QTE you have a limited time in which you must press the button (or button combo) displayed on screen or you will fail, whereas in AP there is a limited time in which you must choose your dialogue stance or the game will make the choice for you.

[sorophx]

Then you've heard the wrong thing about Alpha Protocol's conversation system

I beat the game, so I didn't just hear about it, I saw it in action and experienced it.

in an actual QTE you have a limited time in which you must press the button (or button combo) displayed on screen or you will fail

well, dying might not be the same as having the game choose a dialogue option for you, but the result is pretty much the same: you have to reload. unless you don't really care, what your character says. well, I did care, I wanted to try and play through AP with an operative that had strong principles. so every time I missed a line or wasn't satisfied with the results of a conversation, I had to roll back to the last auto-save.