FO: NV (General Discussion)

[Cantousent]

I'll do the message board version of recusing myself from the setting debate. I'd like to think that I'd be happy with the wasteland feel of New Vegas regardless, but I've always been upfront about the fact that I was excited about the Las Vegas Setting.

 

As far as the faction enmity, though, I don't have any direct tie to either the NCR or the Legion. It's not like I'm an NCR citizen in real life and so I favor it. Frankly, it's hard on me in that I'm sided with the City itself. Inasmuchas I really don't like any of the factions for looking out for the city (including the city factions), I end up making a lot of compromises. However, I do agree that the last minute 'forgiveness' from the major players was funny. Particularly when the PC is in such good standing with one side. I mean, I can see the other side trying to coopt you. I'd still think it was kind of jarring, but this is real politics here. The Legion would still have tried to coopt or neutralize me. I can see see the head guys being pragmatic, even though keeping their dogs at bay would be problematic. That sort of stuff I just chalk up to the player's duty to work with the designers in enjoying the game. The NCR, however, wouldn't need to forgive me when I've always helped them anyhow. What their guy could have said was, "Hey, you've always been a great friend and we could use your help now. Come and see us?" I was... I think liked by the NCR on the only other run, and they told me they'd forgive me. I'll see what happens this run where I'm idolized. Still probably just one of those 'chalk up' moments, but weird nonetheless.

 

I've been vilified by the Legion virtually this whole game. In fact, I decided as much as I hate the Powder Gangers and have been vilified with them as well, I would rather see them punished than enslaved. So, I was pretty much vilified by both factions at about the same time. The Powder Gangers vilified me for defending the town against their rabid dog holligans. The Legion vilified me for freeing two Powder Gangers and then killing the guards who attacked me. I don't think I have ever come across Powder Gangers who have not attacked me, but the Legion sometimes attacks me on sight and other times just hurls insults at me. The NCR has radios, so that explains why they know me pretty much on sight. I assume the Legion has runners and other methods of getting out the news. I also don't know if dressing in faction clothing helps disguise the PC. I do know dressing as the wrong faction draws fire from its enemies. The game is explicit on that and I'm so damned stupid I actually couldn't figure out why the BoS kept attacking me.

 

The real advantage I give New Vegas over Fallout 3 is the factions, though. I think they are clever and more defined than what Fallout 3 had to offer. I also think that the individual NPCs are much better developed by and large. Of course, I enjoyed Fallout 3 also, so I win out either way. In fact, I would say that New Vegas has rekindled much of my interest in Obsidian.

[Tigranes]

I was idolised by NCR for much of the game and actually, they treated me very appropriately. I tried very hard not to kill any Legion folks and was neutral or somesuch when I was approached by them, but with the NCR it was more of everywhere I turn up, they're fawning over such a hero / excellent servant to the republic coming to help them out.

[WDeranged]

From the guy who made Galaxy News Radio - More Where That Came From, now we've got Radio New Vegas - The Secret Stash

Just how badly is the RIAA going to sue him?

 

I won't tell them if you don't

[Gizmo]

speaking of songs, anyone know if any of the FO games uses "We'll Meet Again" by Vera Lynn?

No, and I don't think they should; that song has a tremendously sensitive meaning to some families that lost loved ones in the war.

 

They shouldn't make a game of it. (Nice song though, and otherwise a good choice).

 

*** The reason I joined the Bethsoft forum was actually to email Pete Hines and Emil with a few song suggestions ~never got an answer yet and that was 2007

 

My suggestions were these...

 

Bottlecap Millionare

Radioactive Mama

Crawl Out Through the Fallout

Edited November 15, 2010 by Gizmo

[Humanoid]

C'mon Obsidian, you have an entire faction dedicated to Elvis, but none of his songs?

 

Well there's sort of an in-game explanation why there are no surviving recordings.

 

 

speaking of songs, anyone know if any of the FO games uses "We'll Meet Again" by Vera Lynn?

No, and I don't think they should; that song has a tremendously sensitive meaning to some families that lost loved ones in the war.

 

They shouldn't make a game of it. (Nice song though, and otherwise a good choice).

 

Hardly stopped Kubrick.

 

Side note: All of these little items you can pick up in the game, and not a single toothbrush near a sink. Between that & all the radiation, I'm surprised anyone in the game still has teeth.

 

Irradiated food blasts away all the plaque and tartar!

Edited November 15, 2010 by Humanoid

[MrBrown]

OK, I'm playing slowly.

 

I'm level 5 and thinking of travelling to NV after doing the Mojave Outpost / Primm quests. However, the best weapon I've found is a freaking Cowboy Repeater rifle (I've tagged guns, sneak and repair) and these strange winged insects, giant radscorpions and other critters keep slaying me when I try to move north of the Goodsprings graveyard.

 

Should I be cutting about in the south a bit more to level up and where on earth can I find a decent rifle? Rather annoyingly there is no shortage of energy weapons, but I'm not very good with them.

 

 

Following the main quest is the only sure way to get appropriate encounters. The rest of the wasteland is full of variance. You can end up finding a cave of deathclaws next to a cave of coyotes.

 

Anyway, to get to New Vegas as early as possible, go to Sloan, and proceed northwards on the ridge of the mountain that is on the westside of the road. Going too much east or west gets tough encounters, but there's a sweet spot. It isn't hard once you figure it out. In Vegas, even a level 1 character will survive easily, as long as you don't go to the southeast sections.

[LadyCrimson]

It's a little bit longer time-wise, but it's just as easy to get to NV at lvl1 by taking the main path/avoiding all conflict/questing...has the added bonus of getting a ton of places on your pipboy as you dash through, too.

 

But regardless which way you go, if you want to be even safer, imo there's a reason they put

that stealthboy in the safe in the schoolhouse.

 

Edited November 15, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[LadyCrimson]

I don't think I have ever come across Powder Gangers who have not attacked me, but the Legion sometimes attacks me on sight and other times just hurls insults at me.

If you avoid the Powder Gangers near Goodsprings (and a couple other places) who attack no matter what & don't do anything to make them mad, there are little bands of non-attacking ones here and there. They stay blue and walk right by me. And if you rescue the ones associated with Nipton before making 'em mad, you're good to go. Until you later make them mad anyway of course, which I always seem to do.

Edited November 15, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[MrBrown]

But regardless which way you go, if you want to be even safer, imo there's a reason they put

that stealthboy in the safe in the schoolhouse.

 

 

No no, that's there so you can

rob the Silver Rush and get a lots of money at lvl1, and buy the intelligence implant!

 

[RPGmasterBoo]

what does surprises us is how devoted some fo fans is to new vegas considering how little it actually improves 'pon the previous game.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Not to intrude on what seems to be a private conversation, but I'll probably respond to this affirmation where I see it. New Vegas takes something I enjoyed (Fallout 3) and increases that enjoyment. You have given no compelling reason to prefer the DC wasteland other than your personal tastes. I don't know if that's arbitrary or not. Frankly, most things in life are arbitrary. Regardless, no matter how often you affirm it, there is no objective reason to prefer the DC wasteland. I respect that you prefer it. I just don't accept that it's because of some golden standard. The best you could affirm is that the majority of players agree with your assertion, which is probably hard to prove. You enjoy the DC wasteland. Fine. But your tastes are not inherently better in any quantifiable way. That's why I don't argue that the New Vegas wasteland is better. I argue that I like it more.

 

no objective reasons why dc is better? perhaps not... but is pretty tough to maintain an argument that recreating largely unknown hills and mines and burgs is gonna create as compelling and an intriguing a setting as would the replication o' dc landmarks. is a matter o' taste? sure, but is still a tough sell. in fallout 3 they combines well known with lesser known... got iconic landmarks AND insider knowledge AND additional gameplay made possible by developer/player knowledge o' setting. in fallout:nv you gets loads o' geography, but little else... 1/3 the job o' fo3. sure, fo:nv is maybe kewl for locales, but w/o the insider knowledge it could be anywhere USA. heck, the most recognizable vegas landmarks is absent from the game. the tops, gomorrah and other actual vegas locations coulda' been set anywhere in the fo universe. the old mormon fort... is that it?

 

am understanding cant's love o' fo:nv setting, but that is 'cause his opinion is colored by familiarity. otherwise, nv is disappointingly generic and stale. is fo:nv a return to the old wasteland settings o' fo1 and 2? perhaps... perhaps that is why the purists enjoy it, but that also contributes to its seeming generic staleness... 'cause you got a decades old setting being recycled. fo3 went original. fo:nv went reactionary.

 

'course again, lost in the setting debate is our observation that the game itself does not play much different than fo3. am guessing that maybe factions change gameplay for those people who slaughtered their way through previous fallout games, killing every targetable creature in sight, but it didn't change anything for Gromnir... save to make us wonder how we were instantly recognizable to legionaries and powder gangers at distances that defy imagination... did somebody tag us while we were sleeping, got a radio device pinned in our ear likes some capture-and-released endangered species? and the reset for reputation once entering vegas and beginning the house quests were cheeeeeeze. got a well-deserved audible groan when we were told that all past crimes were forgiven.

 

*snort*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I don't really agree. For a game that's supposed to be set in a wasteland F3 didn't have any and what little it had made no sense whatsoever.

Also, the theme in FNV is obviously shifted more towards a wild west thing and the actual wasteland makes perfect sense.

I found FNV interesting to explore but that was because of a main plot to look forward to - something FO3 didn't have. In FO3 you explored because you had nothing better to do.

 

I'm not saying FNV is the next best thing since pre slice bread. Such a story/dialogue and companion light RPG will not likely be anything beyond a moments entertainment for me (like the Mass Effect games) but there is a significant improvement over the (in that regard) bland FO3.

 

Ultimately what were you expecting? The Fallout setting is a very limited one, and no matter how much its squeezed - you'll get the same crap each time: desert, vaults, ruined cities, pipboys, stimpacks, super mutants yadayadayada

[Gorgon]

I'm nerfing it this time. Maxed out intelligence at lv 1 because I didn't want to miss a single point. Small frame and four eyes perks. The first few perks are going to be spent on upping agility and perception. (I want to max out explosives)

[Cantousent]

I actually disagree with you, Boo. I find the stories and characters in the Fallout series as interesting as other series. I mean, there are some games that are heavy on npc interaction, such as PS:T and KotOR. Sure, the player spends more time hashing out the story with the NPCs in those games, but I still grow attached to the NPCs in all of the Fallout games. As far as story light, I disagree completely. The story behind the NCR and the Legion is not light compared to most computer games. I would agree that the player may, if he so desires, ignore the story, but the story is there. It's generally well considered to varying degrees between games. I think the strength of Fallout 3 was the exploration, but there was a story as goofy as it struck me sometimes.

 

Where I will agree completely is that the setting is limited. I mean, one of the gripes folks have is because of the weird sort of stasis that has taken hold of the setting because folks still expect the series to stay true to the first Fallout. Buildings are eternally shabby but never actually fall down and return to the earth. No one, even in relatively stable areas, spends much time cleaning things. Basic services haven't returned after literally hundreds of years. The setting is quite limited, but I have had more fun with the Fallout series than probably any other crpg franchise.

 

To get back to New Vegas, the complexity is really kicked up a notched. In the previous Fallout games, the PC could choose to favor one side or the other and maybe take a number of avenues to complete the game. In New Vegas, the double dealing is truly amazing. One of the factions wanted me to check on someone spying on one of the other factions. When I saved her, she thought she was working for yet a third faction because there was a spy in that faction working for the first faction. You can work for every side for a while and sometimes get the same quests. Were similar things possible in the other three games? Yes, but not like it is in New Vegas.

 

Anyhow, to get back to the story angle, I distrust 'story' arguments altogether. The backstories for some action rpgs are actually quite developed, but because those are 'action' rpgs, folks act as if the stories themselves are simple. My favorite game of all time is probably still PS:T, but that doesn't mean that I expect every game to face me with the same amount of text nor do I want it. As long as I have a good story that unfolds properly within the game, I'm happy.

[Tigranes]

Started my 2nd playthrough on Very Hard/Hardcore with nerfed XP rewards. This time I'm going 9 PER / 9 AGL / 3 LCK, explosive/repair/speech tagged, Legion and generally being a thieving greedy bastard. Now that I've gone and finished it once I can also take the time to look around nooks and crannies.

[Gorgon]

I'm lv 18 and I've got energy, speech, lockpick, explosives, sneak and science all well past 75. That would have been impossible with my old char. Time to start upping guns, and that will be it for skills i can actually use. I can get to 50 repair with meds so that takes care of repair kits.

[Gorgon]

I'm using the Fallout wiki to make sure I actually get to do the companion sidequests this time, and for skill book locations.

[LadyCrimson]

No no, that's there so you can

rob the Silver Rush and get a lots of money at lvl1, and buy the intelligence implant!

I have such a hard time initially stealing stuff in games. Always takes me a while to lose my RL morals in a game or something. I've started to steal anything useful, however, not just skill books. In another week I'll be pickpocketing everyone in sight & a little after that killing everyone that moves. heh

 

-------------------

I've always had this problem with long rpg's where I tend to get bored during the many dialogues and start clicking through them faster than they can speak. It creates for me a story/immersion disconnect (or outright ignorance). Last night I realized that if I turned off the dialogue subtitles, it helped A LOT. I was forced to listen, instead of being irritatingly impatient because I can read the subtitles 10x faster than characters can speak them out loud. Sure subtitles still have to pop up for when I need to make choices, but when it's their turn it feels more like listening/talking to a person, hence I'm more involved in what they're saying. Maybe I'll start to enjoy/get into the story aspect a little more this way. Never turned them off before in games, always afraid I'd miss something, or because I wanted screenshots of dialogue etc. But better this way I think.

[Wombat]

Reading reviews and comments by the players at various sites, I guess I'd like to congratulate FONV team, despite of the score of some major sites.

 

I read quite many non-professional reviews written by FO3 generation about how they were pleasantly surprised by how quests betrayed their forethought. Also, I came across discussions done thousand of times since FO and PST were out by old gamers who came back to the boards here, too. If this were not called a success, how could I define one?

 

I even think Sawyer managed to achieve one of his main goals as a CRPG maker, which happens to be as same as my own view to the spirit of FO, with FONV...at least, to some extent.

 

O.K. I haven't touched the game yet since I'm still planning to buy a machine which is capable of running Deus Ex: Human Revolution and the Witcher II, but I guess well-deserved congrats won't hurt

and I can still complain after playing the game

 

[RPGmasterBoo]

I actually disagree with you, Boo. I find the stories and characters in the Fallout series as interesting as other series. I mean, there are some games that are heavy on npc interaction, such as PS:T and KotOR. Sure, the player spends more time hashing out the story with the NPCs in those games, but I still grow attached to the NPCs in all of the Fallout games. As far as story light, I disagree completely. The story behind the NCR and the Legion is not light compared to most computer games. I would agree that the player may, if he so desires, ignore the story, but the story is there. It's generally well considered to varying degrees between games. I think the strength of Fallout 3 was the exploration, but there was a story as goofy as it struck me sometimes.

 

Its light in the sense there the story and exposition vs combat is heavily shifted to the latter. I would have liked more talk, less constant fighting. But that way the game would never have worked as a shooter, which is an issue when you have a character in an open world and you cant put in huge stretches of nothingness.

 

This is why Fallout 1 and 2 worked. Because while you had the perception of a wasteland, essentially you were travelling between hot spots with the chance of a random encounter. In F1 nad 2 you actually spent very little time in the wasteland (non city areas ) but the mere knowledge that it was there made the game seem bigger than it is.

 

F3 and FNV have to put in more action because of the silly streaming world concept, that has to be packed with content or it gets boring.

 

This is why I don't like hybrid games.

Edited November 15, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[mkreku]

Because while you had the perception of a wasteland...

This is an assumption that does not hold. I liked Wasteland much more than Fallout or Fallout 2 exactly because the Fallouts never felt like they had believable wastelands. It was just a collection of small maps tied together on an ugly overhead map. But that overhead map never felt like a post-apocalyptic world to me, making the entire game feel small.

 

Wasteland had a map you traversed yourself. Same as Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas. Much preferred.

[Gfted1]

..but it still would've been better if he wouldn't open doors on his own accord.

 

Heh, I had a similar problem with ED-E. While exploring the REPCONN building he would open doors and gleefully blast ghouls, even chasing then down halls and around corners, and he doesnt even have hands with which to open doors, lol.

[Gizmo]

I'm lv 18 and I've got energy, speech, lockpick, explosives, sneak and science all well past 75. That would have been impossible with my old char. Time to start upping guns, and that will be it for skills i can actually use. I can get to 50 repair with meds so that takes care of repair kits.

There may be a design flaw with energy weapons. I haven't been following it close, but these guys have...

 

Its light in the sense there the story and exposition vs combat is heavily shifted to the latter. I would have liked more talk, less constant fighting. But that way the game would never have worked as a shooter, which is an issue when you have a character in an open world and you cant put in huge stretches of nothingness.

 

This is why Fallout 1 and 2 worked. Because while you had the perception of a wasteland, essentially you were travelling between hot spots with the chance of a random encounter. In F1 nad 2 you actually spent very little time in the wasteland (non city areas ) but the mere knowledge that it was there made the game seem bigger than it is.

 

F3 and FNV have to put in more action because of the silly streaming world concept, that has to be packed with content or it gets boring.

 

This is why I don't like hybrid games.

Much of this has been my chief dislike since 2008 (almost verbatim).

*especially the part about 'perception of the wasteland'. Arcanum was much (if not exactly) the same way.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that in Arcanum, you could actually walk coast to coast in real time ~but it would take about 48 hours (never tried this myself).

Edited November 15, 2010 by Gizmo

[MrBrown]

I'm lv 18 and I've got energy, speech, lockpick, explosives, sneak and science all well past 75. That would have been impossible with my old char. Time to start upping guns, and that will be it for skills i can actually use. I can get to 50 repair with meds so that takes care of repair kits.

There may be a design flaw with energy weapons. I haven't been following it close, but these guys have...

 

 

That's interesting. I wonder how that'll turn out in future patches.

 

Not that it matters much gameplay-wise, Plasma Caster and the YCS/186 still kill everything so fast it's a joke.

[Enoch]

Aw, I spend the weekend doing home-improvement projects, and I miss a Pop-Gromnir throwdown? Dang.

 

I probably come out more on Grom's side on this one, although my perspective is the opposite of Cant's-- I'm a DC local, so a lot of the color that Bethsoft put into FO3 hit home with me more than most. Dupont was very well done; I like the use of the Pentagon; the Metro felt authentic (although they did put in way too much of it) and made my commute interesting for weeks, peeking for ghouls in the maintenence areas between stations; the National Archives and Natural History museum were both very cool. Little details like the texture they used on highway overpass retaining walls were just right. And, for all the boxed-in feeling that the areas of FO3's DC gave us, it at least felt like we were picking through the remains of a Big City. FNV's Vegas feels like it's only about 5 blocks across.

 

Granted, DC is an easier hand to play than Vegas is, as most of what people remember about Vegas involves landmarks that have arisen since the divergence of the Fallout setting's retro-future timeline. FNV's comparable 'color' (Primm's rollercoaster, the Novac dino, the pseudo-Stratosphere, the Hoover Dam) just hasn't impressed me the same way. It's certainly true that I'm missing the little details in the Mojave that my real-world knowledge of DC clued me into in FO3. And it might be partly because I was spoiled about most of the FNV landmarks I mentioned before playing the game. For whatever reason, the exploration element doesn't have the same pull.

 

I haven't hit the endgame yet, but, all told, I am still somewhat underwhelmed by the scope of improvements over Bethesda's entry. The gameplay changes are nice, but they fall short of making the combat fun for it's own sake. The writing in FO3 was rather banal, and while FNV avoids the worst of what Bethesda offered, I still haven't had a whole lot of "that was a very well written quest/character/location" moments. (Vault 11 is the notable exception so far. Maybe Arcade, too.) The diamonds in the rough have been worth the slog so far, and I keep going hoping to find more, but a lot of the slogging along the way feels a bit too familiar.

[Gizmo]

Not that it matters much gameplay-wise, Plasma Caster and the YCS/186 still kill everything so fast it's a joke.

I have my own problem with the Plasma caster though... The gun shoots bolts in

.

(I can't help but play TPP whenever possible/practical).

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm pissed off because my melee character cant close in on deathclaws, even with the thermic lance.

 

I did slaughter all of them in Deadwind Cave, even the legendary one but that was in enclosed spaces. In Quarry Junction they're charging me and I cant move away or interrupt.