Players banned for cheating in SP Campaign

[Bos_hybrid]

Should you be allowed to cheat?

 

As someone that will go through games again with a trainer/console commands/hex edit etc, I'm against it. Fair enough to ban MP cheats, but single player cheaters effect no one.

 

Maybe I'm being one eyed here, but does anyone here have a problem with people cheating in SP?

[Oblarg]

This was pretty out of line, yeah.

[Humodour]

Ridiculous.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Doesn't SC2 have cheats like any other Blizzard RTS that anyone can use? I'm assuming players abusing achievements or something were banned, which would probably be worth removing some achievements and not allowing players to get achievements for a while.

Edited October 13, 2010 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY

[Oner]

Built in cheats disable achievements in SC2.

[kirottu]

So achievements are serious business?

[taviow]

First of all, you have to log into B.net to play the game, regardless of whether or not you want to play single player (with achievements enabled that is, offline mode exists but it disables the achievements).

 

So, technically, they were indeed online. The players who did this have done so to abuse the achievements, which are, well, an online function. If they wanted to get through the campaign quickly or cheat during matches with the AI, they could have done so using the in-game cheats.

 

They used trainers instead. I agree that in single player mode people should do whatever they want, trainers and cheating included. It's all about altering the game files which shouldn't have been done *online* in the first place. But as it stands, I don't have much of an issue with this. Blizzard gave them a 14 day ban, when they could have easily justified a permanent ban, since they can start up online games just as easily as they started up games versus the AI, or the campaign.

 

Also, Blizzard can't possibly tell the difference between someone using trainers in single player without malicious intent and someone who intends to eventually use it online. So they were not banned for cheating during single player. They were banned for using trainers while logged in.

 

Besides, their intention of getting achievements seems malicious enough already, considering you get in game rewards for achievements you've done, that other players can see, such as portraits. When playing online, you see this cheater's portrait, and you end up with the illusion that you're up against a guy who won 1000 matches as protoss/terran/zerg/random.

Edited October 13, 2010 by taviow

[Calax]

So achievements are serious business?

That's the justification given by blizz.

 

I can see both sides of this. One side is that Blizz is trying to keep their program intact, and have the ability to monitor what's going on with their programming at all times, so they use this ability to prevent things like external programs cheating, or possible piracy.

 

On the other side is the "Well, it's mine, and I'm not playing with anyone so WTF MATE!?" Which is understandable. You buy something, you expect that that something is going to stay yours for the duration and you're allowed to modify it without repercussions by the creator. I personally am wondering if there is any precedent for this over at Valve/steam, as they have some pretty interesting measures for cheating (that also are significantly worse than Blizz in some respects as you loose your entire library). If there isn't there may be grounds to justify a "wtf mate" moment, and if you're banned the possibility of lawsuit as you purchased the product, not "forever renting" it (but you'd have to check the EULA). If the EULA doesn't specify otherwise and you got perma-banned for something like this, I think that (in theory) you could sue them for stolen property as they "stole" what you purchased from them by denying you use of it and keeping your money.

[mkreku]

So they force single players to be online at all times.. and then they ban these players for using cheats in their own single player campaigns, with the excuse that they were online at the time?

 

Yeah, that sounds fair.

 

I seldom use cheats, except in games like Just Cause 2 (infinite ammo and stuff), Crysis (towers of barrels!) and Red Faction: Guerilla (just to play around with the fantastic technology), but I do think Blizzard should butt out of what people think is fun to do within THEIR OWN GAMES.

[taviow]

So achievements are serious business?

That's the justification given by blizz.

 

I can see both sides of this. One side is that Blizz is trying to keep their program intact, and have the ability to monitor what's going on with their programming at all times, so they use this ability to prevent things like external programs cheating, or possible piracy.

 

On the other side is the "Well, it's mine, and I'm not playing with anyone so WTF MATE!?" Which is understandable. You buy something, you expect that that something is going to stay yours for the duration and you're allowed to modify it without repercussions by the creator. I personally am wondering if there is any precedent for this over at Valve/steam, as they have some pretty interesting measures for cheating (that also are significantly worse than Blizz in some respects as you loose your entire library). If there isn't there may be grounds to justify a "wtf mate" moment, and if you're banned the possibility of lawsuit as you purchased the product, not "forever renting" it (but you'd have to check the EULA). If the EULA doesn't specify otherwise and you got perma-banned for something like this, I think that (in theory) you could sue them for stolen property as they "stole" what you purchased from them by denying you use of it and keeping your money.

 

Correction, you won't lose your entire library for cheating. First of all, to be VAC banned, you need to be playing a Steamworks game, games from other companies do not apply. Then if you are indeed VAC banned, you can no longer play *games that use Steamworks* online. All the others, such as Borderlands for example, remain intact.

 

So they force single players to be online at all times.. and then they ban these players for using cheats in their own single player campaigns, with the excuse that they were online at the time?

 

Yeah, that sounds fair.

 

It's also worth noting that you are in fact not forced to be online for Starcraft 2.

 

Offline mode exists, in which you can install whatever trainers you want. It disables achievements however.

 

All these people wanted to do was grind for achievements and get the in game rewards.

Edited October 13, 2010 by taviow

[Orchomene]

If one can play offline and have intern cheats disable achievements, then it's fair.

That means that the one that wants to cheat can do it but not gain achievement for it (which seems logical).

Besides, trainers are very limit as a cheat tool since it's modifying the program itself and the licence generally does not allow the buyer of a video game to modify the binaries. Distribution of trainers, specifically for a cost, is also very limit.

[Tale]

I'm probably more miffed by the lack of soft precedent setting. There's not a lot of precedent for banning over single player cheating, even if for achievements. Though the 360 probably has some precedent on that, it's nonexistant for PC players.

 

They could have gone with a softer handed general penalty to establish it. Then gone with banning afterwards. That, I think, would have been preferrable. Similar to Valve's response to the idler program. But I'm not saying I'm comftorable with the idea of punishment over single player cheating.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Tale

[Calax]

Well, Blizz did a ban of 14 days as mentioned. It's just that people hear "ban" and instantly think "their account is gone for lief!"

[Tale]

Only 14 days? That's the more reasonable for establishing precedent.

[Morgoth]

I've cheated in the last SP mission a while back and I haven't been banned yet. Lucky me.

[Calax]

Only 14 days? That's the more reasonable for establishing precedent.

Yeah

 

And Morg, they mean using trainers from outside the game to cheat rather than the cheats blizz put in the game (we have taken terrible terrible damage!)

[Majek]

Yeah like Cheat happens Unlimited members only trainers :D I usually only use Cheat Engine to cheat on the fly but i can't in SC2.

[Thorton_AP]

So achievements are serious business?

 

 

For a lot of people they actually are. There's people that go off and hide in corners to kill each other in FPS games. Called "boosting" IIRC.

[Niten_Ryu]

Blizzard allows offical cheats

5,000 Minerals								stroaksmolts
5,000 Minerals and Gas						smoldersbolds
5,000 Vespene Gas							 realmendrilldeep
Disable defeat conditions					 ypoonsvoicemail
Disable food requirements					 mintmansoperator
disable victory condition					 tyuhasleftthegame
Disables Ability Cooldown					 HanShotFirst
Disables defeat conditions					NeverGiveUpNeverSurrender
Disables tech requirements					SoSayWeAll
Disables the time of day					  Qrotero
Fast Build									reversingnazaire -or- basestarsprimative
Fast Heal									 fsbcomunicacion
Fog of War disabled						   sawnoutofmemory
Gives 5,000,000 credits					   whysoserious
Gives 5000 Custom resources				   DZMHairSpring
granted resources							 jaynestown
Invincibility and increased damage			terribleterribledamage
Lose the current game						 cadeasygoin
Mission Select								lyingpect
Opens cutscene menu						   eyeofsauron
Opens the UNN broadcast menu				  furabranchery
Plays the song "Terran up the Night"		  OverEngineeredCodPiece
Re-enters the last cheat used				 =
Research points granted					   wapboinkers
Units/Structures no longer cost resources	 moredotsmoredots
Upgrades Weapons, Armor (and Shields) by 1	IAmIronman
Win current game							  cmethodfeedback

 

But any .exe or other similar file "hecking" is no allowed. Even if EULAs or ToS won't work in courts, Blizzard can and will ban you or in the end, terminate the account. They have created the product and if you want to change something, risk of being banned or find a way to play offline. Personally I dislike all cheating in games.

[Calax]

http://kotaku.com/5665407/blizzard-suing-s...ii-cheat-makers

 

Well Blizz is trying to sue the makers of the trainer that they banned people for.

[taviow]

http://kotaku.com/5665407/blizzard-suing-s...ii-cheat-makers

 

Well Blizz is trying to sue the makers of the trainer that they banned people for.

 

When you look at it, it at first sounds a bit ridiculous, but then the article says they were selling the trainers... so I dunno...

[Gorgon]

This is all because of that retarded X box bastard child 'achievements'. Apparently having cheated in single player would subject other players to look at little badges with text that the cheating players did not actually unlock by having no life and after months of mindless repetitive activity finally killing Zerg nr 10 million.

 

 

The horror !.