New copyright enforcement bill on its way

[Raithe]

And I pay for my tv license and satellite tv... but I hardly ever watch anything except when I download tv shows when they're shown 6-8 months earlier in America and then choose to watch them when I have time rather than when the tv schedule says they're on...

 

What I do find annoying music wise... is that if I go to Amazon.com there are music albums sold via digital download that you can buy for $4.. but they won't allow people outside of the States to buy/download them... and then Amazon.co.uk sell the same albums for

[Nepenthe]

Now you're just changing the discussion. DRM is not the solution.

 

Also, good job rationalising your music piracy above. The 'simply wrong' argument never fails.

 

Of course I can't speak for all indie labels out there, I know I've always managed to find good samples of the stuff I buy, before I have to. Maybe the industrial scene is just exceptionally well directed towards the web due to the ideology behind.

Since we touched the subject of Industrial , do you know where I could buy Razed in Black albums?

 

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Razed+In+Black

 

Looks like they have 434 albums for sale. I'm sure you'll find one there. Also amazon.com for both physical copies and digital, itunes for digital.

 

Those were the first three places I looked at and all carried them - I'd guess there would be other options too. I hope they weren't on the 'ungettable' list...

[Orogun01]

Looks like they have 434 albums for sale. I'm sure you'll find one there. Also amazon.com for both physical copies and digital, itunes for digital.

 

Those were the first three places I looked at and all carried them - I'd guess there would be other options too. I hope they weren't on the 'ungettable' list...

Thanks a lot, Amazon didn't have the albums I was looking for but then again that was a while ago.

 

The Blackest Album FTW

Edited September 27, 2010 by Orogun01

[Purkake]

ITT: We learn to use the internet...

[Orogun01]

ITT: We learn to use the internet...

[Purkake]

Hey,

 

[Orogun01]

Well now I know, and knowing is half the battle

 

The other half is violence

 

Back to the subject.

 

Maybe it's time we break down piracy to it's products, since they have different traits altogether and present different cases.

Although I've been having a hard time finding a reliable study since most are incomplete. Anyone had luck?

[Irrelevant]

It's funny how you all seem to think downloading an album or a movie is the same as stealing it. It's not. Technology has moved forward and it's about the same kind of a leap as back when betamax / video cassettes / c-cassettes were introduced. The music and movie industries are trying to hung onto their old, very lucrative business model that's simply not working with the current tech we have. There's no turning back the time, either.

So, because it is easy to steal and the probability of getting caught low, you think it is Ok?

 

Parasites with self entitlement issues is the reason legislation like this even comes up in the first instance.

 

When you go to the hair dresser and get a haircut, do you decide when leaving that his time and effort wasn't worth your money and then leave without paying? Probably not, because it is easier to get caught. The mentality is the same though. Why should *I* have to pay if I can weasel my way out of it. I can always try to make up feeble, pathetic excuses afterwards, like nobody gets hurt and everybody else are stealing, so it can't really be wrong, can it? It must be the victims fault, because I am not really a bad person normally. Grow up.

 

Bottom line, there is nothing essential you need to survive on the internet. There is only explanations for piracy, no excuses.

Um, I'm stupid but, there are bad people that violate the law to do what they want, both with and without power.

I do not like these type of laws because most people don't know how the internet works and think it works like a physical location,(which is why most do not complain about paying the same price for a digital copy as a boxed copy.)

The reason that qoute is above is because it is easy to notice bad stuff outside of a computer monitor(stealing/piracy these are different because like knowledge you can take it and still have it, also you need less copies sold of something online versus at a store because you only spend money on bandwidth,1 gig of bandwidth costs the same to a piracy site as it does to this one so ISP's make money either way, It is worth noting that one can shut down a site now by threatening an ISP with copyright law.)

 

Its easier to tell that a store was vandalized or shut down in the physical world but hard to tell that 100 websites have been taken offline. So I don't like this because its really easy for people in control to do bad stuff in the name of the law.

Also isn't some dude at Gamespot buying a used game worse than a pirate because the pirate still has money?

Edited October 3, 2010 by Irrelevant

[Hurlshort]

Um, I'm stupid but, there are bad people that violate the law to do what they want, both with and without power.

I do not like these type of laws because most people don't know how the internet works and think it works like a physical location,(which is why most do not complain about paying the same price for a digital copy as a boxed copy.)

 

Most people don't mind paying the same because they understand that the real cost of a game or a movie is in the production, not in the distribution. When I buy a game I don't look at the box and go 'gee, I'm really happy with the construction of this plastic case and the roundness of the DVD'.

[Irrelevant]

Doesn't almost half the money go to pay for the box, retailer, shipping, shelf space ect? A lot of money is spent making the game/movie/ect but thats not were all of it goes Speaking of which, who pays for an interview or preview? The "journalist" or the publisher?

Edited October 3, 2010 by Irrelevant

[Humodour]

Uh, I don't think you're correct Hurlshot.

[Hurlshort]

I'm referring strictly to the way I feel about the money I put down on the product. I understand that a large percentage of my money goes to the publisher. I'm probably not explaining it well, but what I'm really saying is $50-$60 is what I consider a fair price for the hours of work a development team puts in on a game, no matter how I receive the product.

[Gorth]

I think, usually 100% goes to the publisher.

 

Of course, the publisher then has to buy the investors that they borrowed the money from to finance it (with interest), they pay the PR dudes, they pay their distribution network, they pay the devloper contracted to develop the product, they pay their own employees, they pay taxes, they pay external consulting firms (market analysis, audits etc.), they pay the running cost of maintaining their assets (rent, electricity, hardware etc.), they pay... well, you get the picture. It's a business. They invest money (sometimes their own, sometimes other peoples) in projects they believe are profitable.

 

Digital distribution has it's pros and cons. it is not by any means free, as you still need the organisation, the hardware, the software, the bandwidth (wanna bet, unusal bandwidth requirements comes at a special price?) and the staff to maintain it, credit card companies/paypal whatever wants their share of the turnover too. Once it you have the infrastructure in place though, it is easier to increase the available sortiment compared to a physical shelf.

 

Edit: Then of course they also have to pay the DRM dudes.

[Oblarg]

Edit: Then of course they also have to pay the DRM dudes.

 

Not if they're Stardock, and Stardock seems to be doing fine.

 

DRM does nothing but frustrate the consumer. Those who want to pirate the games will crack the DRM and pirate the game. The rest of us will simply be stuck with pointless limitations on our software. In fact, if anything, DRM promotes piracy, because at least a pirated copy of the game isn't limited to a certain number of installs.

[Gorth]

The rest of us will simply be stuck with pointless limitations on our software.

Preaching to the choir I think... hate it with a passion.

 

DRM promotes piracy

Thats like accusing The World Trade center of being the cause of 9/11 rather than just accept that piracy causes DRM and deal with the source of the problem.

 

I wonder if people ever considered that Stardocks games might appeal to a different demographics than say Activision, Ubisoft and Electronic Arts games?

[Oblarg]

Thats like accusing The World Trade center of being the cause of 9/11 rather than just accept that piracy causes DRM and deal with the source of the problem.

 

I wonder if people ever considered that Stardocks games might appeal to a different demographics than say Activision, Ubisoft and Electronic Arts games?

 

No, it's not. DRM may be in response to piracy, but the net result is most likely more piracy than would happen if it were not used.

[Hurlshort]

I'm positive that the people that use drm to justify their piracy would just find another justification if drm didn't exist. It is a video game, if you don't like the drm, you don't need to still play it.

[Irrelevant]

Um, people that bought Assassin's Creed 2 or any game with DRM that gave them issues either waited for an official fix, returned the game, or used some form of piracy. Is it reasonable to say that a significant ammount of non-technical consumers got so pissed off at something they purchased that they turned to piracy? Or people that lost or broke their game disks? Digital stores are very recent, the extreme convinced offered by these was and still is available in the form of piracy(except piracy is even more convenient) I remember very well the time I found out I was only a few kilobytes of CD-cracks away from importing my entire game collection to my hard drive.

 

Also I remember hearing some of my friends in elementary school(5th grade) talking about modding their PS2's/Gameboys(I can't remember which one)

Maybe this means other kids were too(Oh snap! A friend in Middle school burned me a copy Battlezone so I could play with him! the game did not run but I still have disc from back then!! Holy crap, thanks. )

Edited October 3, 2010 by Irrelevant

[Hurlshort]

Um, people that bought Assassin's Creed 2 or any gave with DRM that gave them issues either waited for an official fix, returned the game, or used some form of piracy. Is it reasonable to say that significant ammount of non-technical consumers got so pissed of at soething they purchased that they turned to piracy? Or people lost or broke their game disks? Digital stores are very recent, the extreme convinced offered by these was and still is available in the form of piracy(except piracy is even more convenient) I remember very well the time I found out I was only a few kilobytes of CD-cracks away from importing my entire game collection to my hard drive.

 

There are a lot of problems with what you just wrote.

 

1. If you bought AC2, then you aren't a pirate.

 

2. Waiting for a fix or returning it are the proper ways of handling the situation. I don't buy Ubisoft products because of their online always policy.

 

3. Non-technical consumers are not technical enough to turn to piracy. Applying cracks and using torrents requires a decent amount of know-how.

 

Piracy isn't all that convenient. You are opening yourself up to all sorts of problems. Cracked software typically comes with plenty of problems on its own. People pirate because they are cheap or they are impatient.

[Calax]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/vie...ject-Ten-Dollar

 

Actually that video kinda gives you a break down of the costs being attributed to where. At about 1:03 they bring up a pie chart that shows exactly how much goes where (for those unwilling to watch Retailers get 15, Returns are 7, Distribution is 4, Platform Royalty is 7 and the publisher gets 27 bucks of that 60 dollar game)

[Oblarg]

Um, people that bought Assassin's Creed 2 or any gave with DRM that gave them issues either waited for an official fix, returned the game, or used some form of piracy. Is it reasonable to say that significant ammount of non-technical consumers got so pissed of at soething they purchased that they turned to piracy? Or people lost or broke their game disks? Digital stores are very recent, the extreme convinced offered by these was and still is available in the form of piracy(except piracy is even more convenient) I remember very well the time I found out I was only a few kilobytes of CD-cracks away from importing my entire game collection to my hard drive.

 

There are a lot of problems with what you just wrote.

 

1. If you bought AC2, then you aren't a pirate.

 

2. Waiting for a fix or returning it are the proper ways of handling the situation. I don't buy Ubisoft products because of their online always policy.

 

3. Non-technical consumers are not technical enough to turn to piracy. Applying cracks and using torrents requires a decent amount of know-how.

 

Piracy isn't all that convenient. You are opening yourself up to all sorts of problems. Cracked software typically comes with plenty of problems on its own. People pirate because they are cheap or they are impatient.

 

Using torrents requires know-how? Whaaaaaaaaat? Hahahahahahaha.

[Irrelevant]

1. I think under the DMCA you are(if burning back-ups of Movies counts as a felony then using a no-cd crack or something similar is probably as well)

2. Thats obvious, however if you inconvenience customers like in AC2's case, the most likely option is the above, its easy and much faster than waiting for a fix.

3. I disagree,people in first world countries don't know how the internet works, but they can upload pictures, videos, know about file formats, ect. They are around computer technology or use it daily. Also pirating data is easy and has a low risk,(of course chances are that it is one of the ways that black hat hackers and spam companies steal their bandwidth but viruses and the like are mostly created for the sole commercial purpose of stealing unused bandwidth, not deleting your hard drive and putting a funny message on your monitor.)

Edited October 3, 2010 by Irrelevant

[Calax]

Um, people that bought Assassin's Creed 2 or any gave with DRM that gave them issues either waited for an official fix, returned the game, or used some form of piracy. Is it reasonable to say that significant ammount of non-technical consumers got so pissed of at soething they purchased that they turned to piracy? Or people lost or broke their game disks? Digital stores are very recent, the extreme convinced offered by these was and still is available in the form of piracy(except piracy is even more convenient) I remember very well the time I found out I was only a few kilobytes of CD-cracks away from importing my entire game collection to my hard drive.

 

There are a lot of problems with what you just wrote.

 

1. If you bought AC2, then you aren't a pirate.

 

2. Waiting for a fix or returning it are the proper ways of handling the situation. I don't buy Ubisoft products because of their online always policy.

 

3. Non-technical consumers are not technical enough to turn to piracy. Applying cracks and using torrents requires a decent amount of know-how.

 

Piracy isn't all that convenient. You are opening yourself up to all sorts of problems. Cracked software typically comes with plenty of problems on its own. People pirate because they are cheap or they are impatient.

 

Using torrents requires know-how? Whaaaaaaaaat? Hahahahahahaha.

It requires know how that isn't easily available or covered. I mean how many people know how to use WORD much less download and figure out a torrent site, and then figuring out the actual torrent program and THEN getting half the stuff required to get the thing you just snagged to work.

[Oblarg]

Um, people that bought Assassin's Creed 2 or any gave with DRM that gave them issues either waited for an official fix, returned the game, or used some form of piracy. Is it reasonable to say that significant ammount of non-technical consumers got so pissed of at soething they purchased that they turned to piracy? Or people lost or broke their game disks? Digital stores are very recent, the extreme convinced offered by these was and still is available in the form of piracy(except piracy is even more convenient) I remember very well the time I found out I was only a few kilobytes of CD-cracks away from importing my entire game collection to my hard drive.

 

There are a lot of problems with what you just wrote.

 

1. If you bought AC2, then you aren't a pirate.

 

2. Waiting for a fix or returning it are the proper ways of handling the situation. I don't buy Ubisoft products because of their online always policy.

 

3. Non-technical consumers are not technical enough to turn to piracy. Applying cracks and using torrents requires a decent amount of know-how.

 

Piracy isn't all that convenient. You are opening yourself up to all sorts of problems. Cracked software typically comes with plenty of problems on its own. People pirate because they are cheap or they are impatient.

 

Using torrents requires know-how? Whaaaaaaaaat? Hahahahahahaha.

It requires know how that isn't easily available or covered. I mean how many people know how to use WORD much less download and figure out a torrent site, and then figuring out the actual torrent program and THEN getting half the stuff required to get the thing you just snagged to work.

 

Step one - download bittorrent

Step two - google

Step three - download and run .torrent file

 

Not rocket science.

[Calax]

Like I said, people can't figure out word or how to download attachments from their computer, and you expect them not only to download and run torrents and programs, but also to be able to get a program to mount the files, and tweak it so it runs wiht the crack they need...

 

Ever seen your grandparents play a ps2? it's like that.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Calax