New copyright enforcement bill on its way

[Thorton_AP]

Dear God

 

Please smite down all **** trying to stop piracy.

 

Ubisoft DMR finds it's way up the corporate ladder, and i'm sure that it will also end in disaster.

 

 

If you're going to pray for divine intervention, why wouldn't you just pray for God to smite down all those that pirate? Because then you wouldn't need to worry about DRM any more since no one would be pirating.

[Orogun01]

Please make a forum post after you've been burgled. Then we will all try to persuade you to feel sorry for the thief, after all your property was just lying there, waiting to be taken right?

 

Copyright is NOT property rights.

 

****, I would've thought the more Libertarian-leaning people on this board would be the most astute ones on this matter. Guess not.

 

Libertarians respect property rights, it's one of the cornerstones of libertarianism. The copyright / property right argument is also false. You are freely creating something that you would otherwise buy and depriving the creator of the legitimate profit of his or her labour. It's theft, however much semantic loop-the-looping you want to undertake.

Yeah, heavens forbid that we keep the publisher from the profit of the creator's labor.

 

Piracy somehow operates on the same principle of supply and demand, you won't see the peer ratio rise on a product that nobody wants. There is still the fact that as widespread as piracy is its still just a small percentage of sales lost. I find it hard to empathize with a faceless, greedy corporation that wants to put bucks on their pocket but lack the proper product and blame it on piracy.

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, heavens forbid that we keep the publisher from the profit of the creator's labor.

 

Piracy somehow operates on the same principle of supply and demand, you won't see the peer ratio rise on a product that nobody wants. There is still the fact that as widespread as piracy is its still just a small percentage of sales lost. I find it hard to empathize with a faceless, greedy corporation that wants to put bucks on their pocket but lack the proper product and blame it on piracy.

 

Ah yes, the faceless, greedy corporations argument.

 

The author might not get a large chunk of the price of his copyrighted work, but the last time I looked, it was still more than they got for the Pirate Bay version.

 

I know a lot of one-man record companies (in fact, a large chunk of my whole music collection comes from these). Do these already count as faceless? Or is it just enough to operate as an LLC to qualify for the facelessness? I mean, I've always assumed that people like get paid for their work, so obviously they are by definition greedy...

[Monte Carlo]

It's simple, I'd guess that the vast majority of piracy apologists are by and large people who dabble in downloading pirated products. They are simply trying to rationalise / validate their criminality.

[Oblarg]

It's simple, I'd guess that the vast majority of piracy apologists are by and large people who dabble in downloading pirated products. They are simply trying to rationalise / validate their criminality.

 

Unfortunately for those who enjoy being obnoxiously self-righteous, the morality of piracy is far from black and white.

 

Most underground music scenes would be dead were it not for the massive exposure boost given by piracy. The error people often make is in the assumptions that pirates don't buy any music and that the music that they pirate would have otherwise been purchased. These are both false.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Oblarg

[Monte Carlo]

^ I shoot and I score.

 

You are talking about a tiny percentage of the issue at hand, more semantics more loop-the-loop. I am talking about the websites where you can merrily and freely steal products you should pay for. You think you are stealing from a faceless corporation, but that company has employees it pays salaries that put roofs over heads and food in mouths.

 

If waking up every day and trying my level best not to steal, to pay my taxes and be a half-decent contributing, non-oxygen stealing member of society makes be obnoxious and self-righteous then that's a badge I'll wear with pride.

 

Go steal some more software and bask in your alternative, I'm-so-cool attitude. It doesn't change what is or isn't theft.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Monte Carlo

[Thorton_AP]

Yeah, heavens forbid that we keep the publisher from the profit of the creator's labor.

 

Piracy somehow operates on the same principle of supply and demand, you won't see the peer ratio rise on a product that nobody wants. There is still the fact that as widespread as piracy is its still just a small percentage of sales lost. I find it hard to empathize with a faceless, greedy corporation that wants to put bucks on their pocket but lack the proper product and blame it on piracy.

 

So if you had a choice, you'd rather let people continue to pirate software and stick it to the faceless, greedy corporation, than stop piracy?

 

How small is that percentage actually too, btw?

[Oblarg]

^ I shoot and I score.

 

You are talking about a tiny percentage of the issue at hand, more semantics more loop-the-loop. I am talking about the websites where you can merrily and legitimately steal products you should pay for. You think you are stealing from a faceless corporation, but that company has employees it pays salaries that put roofs over heads and food in mouths.

 

If waking up every day and trying my level best not to steal, to pay my taxes and be a half-decent contributing, non-oxygen stealing member of society makes be obnoxious and self-righteous then that's a badge I'll wear with pride.

 

Go steal some more software and bask in your alternative, I'm-so-cool attitude. It doesn't change what is or isn't theft.

 

You're implying I would pirate software. Once again, it is not black and white, as you would make it seem - people do not either pirate everything or pirate nothing.

 

You know, you ought to make fewer assumptions. It'd help you.

[Thorton_AP]

You're implying I would pirate software. Once again, it is not black and white, as you would make it seem - people do not either pirate everything or pirate nothing.

 

You know, you ought to make fewer assumptions. It'd help you.

 

So you do pirate sometimes?

[Monte Carlo]

No, my friend, because I suspect I'm totally on the money.

[Monte Carlo]

You're implying I would pirate software. Once again, it is not black and white, as you would make it seem - people do not either pirate everything or pirate nothing.

 

You know, you ought to make fewer assumptions. It'd help you.

 

So you do pirate sometimes?

 

Dude, eliciting the admission is so much more fun, 'K?

[Thorton_AP]

You're implying I would pirate software. Once again, it is not black and white, as you would make it seem - people do not either pirate everything or pirate nothing.

 

You know, you ought to make fewer assumptions. It'd help you.

 

So you do pirate sometimes?

 

Dude, eliciting the admission is so much more fun, 'K?

 

 

I figured I was

[Oblarg]

You're implying I would pirate software. Once again, it is not black and white, as you would make it seem - people do not either pirate everything or pirate nothing.

 

You know, you ought to make fewer assumptions. It'd help you.

 

So you do pirate sometimes?

 

Well, now we're going into "I wonder how long until the moderators step in" territory, but I think you can guess the answer to that.

 

Suffice to say that, contrary to what Monte Carlo would have you believe, no one is going to miss their rent when someone pirates a heavy metal album from 20-30 years ago. In fact, quite the opposite - sales increase from the exposure, because the few bands in the genre that still exist are relatively unknown, and people can't buy albums by bands they have never heard.

[Hurlshort]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

[Oblarg]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

 

No, it's really not. Is someone supposed to buy an album on a leap of faith? Christ, it would take several hundred dollars just to stumble upon a band you enjoy. I don't know about you, but I only buy music from bands that I already know and enjoy (exception for debut albums, of course).

 

If you were to deny people the means of discovering obscure music, which these days is mainly piracy, obscure music would die.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Oblarg

[Purkake]

You're implying I would pirate software. Once again, it is not black and white, as you would make it seem - people do not either pirate everything or pirate nothing.

 

You know, you ought to make fewer assumptions. It'd help you.

 

So you do pirate sometimes?

 

Well, now we're going into "I wonder how long until the moderators step in" territory, but I think you can guess the answer to that.

Don't worry, even the guy who pretty much admitted to being a pirate and calling for other to pirate AP didn't get banned.

[Orogun01]

Yeah, heavens forbid that we keep the publisher from the profit of the creator's labor.

 

Piracy somehow operates on the same principle of supply and demand, you won't see the peer ratio rise on a product that nobody wants. There is still the fact that as widespread as piracy is its still just a small percentage of sales lost. I find it hard to empathize with a faceless, greedy corporation that wants to put bucks on their pocket but lack the proper product and blame it on piracy.

 

Ah yes, the faceless, greedy corporations argument.

 

The author might not get a large chunk of the price of his copyrighted work, but the last time I looked, it was still more than they got for the Pirate Bay version.

 

I know a lot of one-man record companies (in fact, a large chunk of my whole music collection comes from these). Do these already count as faceless? Or is it just enough to operate as an LLC to qualify for the facelessness? I mean, I've always assumed that people like get paid for their work, so obviously they are by definition greedy...

It sort of renders the argument useless if they aren't actually suffering from it. In the end the one man companies end up being consolidated into the the mega-corporations; if their product is popular enough and become part of the same faceless industry. If everyone actually pirated every game and songs these industries would have no revenue and collapse.

They haven't.

 

 

It's simple, I'd guess that the vast majority of piracy apologists are by and large people who dabble in downloading pirated products. They are simply trying to rationalise / validate their criminality.

 

Unfortunately for those who enjoy being obnoxiously self-righteous, the morality of piracy is far from black and white.

 

Most underground music scenes would be dead were it not for the massive exposure boost given by piracy. The error people often make is in the assumptions that pirates don't buy any music and that the music that they pirate would have otherwise been purchased. These are both false.

This is the other side of the coin, piracy is a riskless investment for the consumer that wouldn't have been exposed to it had it not given it a chance. E.G. person that doesn't enjoy a particular genre of music/games hears a lot hype and decides to jump on the wagon. But he doesn't want to spend his money on a investment that will not return so he takes the less risk with piracy and whether they like it or not, they now know.

The problem is with the economic models that force someone to piracy. We have simply gone from burning or doing a tape recording of a friend's album, to having a whole lot of people offering it to you. The problem was already there before it has just now grown.

[Hurlshort]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

 

No, it's really not. Is someone supposed to buy an album on a leap of faith? Christ, it would take several hundred dollars just to stumble upon a band you enjoy. I don't know about you, but I only buy music from bands that I already know and enjoy (exception for debut albums, of course).

 

If you were to deny people the means of discovering obscure music, which these days is mainly piracy, obscure music would die.

 

There are quite a few avenues to legitimately sample music. I have a hard time believing this obscure music you are talking about is only available via illegal methods.

[Gorgon]

It's not uncommon for bands to leak their albums early on PTP networks to create a buzz. We are talking about bands whose main interest is to get noticed of course. Right now the prime add space on The Pirate Bay is a plug for a free download album. It's perfectly legal, but the site providing the PR isn't.

 

The top 100 music downloads on the same site reads pretty much exactly like a billboard chart though, so I don't know how genuine the notion of them being a grassroots launch platform for unknown acts is.

[Oblarg]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

 

No, it's really not. Is someone supposed to buy an album on a leap of faith? Christ, it would take several hundred dollars just to stumble upon a band you enjoy. I don't know about you, but I only buy music from bands that I already know and enjoy (exception for debut albums, of course).

 

If you were to deny people the means of discovering obscure music, which these days is mainly piracy, obscure music would die.

 

There are quite a few avenues to legitimately sample music. I have a hard time believing this obscure music you are talking about is only available via illegal methods.

 

Other than youtube (which is **** quality and inconvenient), no, there really isn't.

[Orogun01]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

 

No, it's really not. Is someone supposed to buy an album on a leap of faith? Christ, it would take several hundred dollars just to stumble upon a band you enjoy. I don't know about you, but I only buy music from bands that I already know and enjoy (exception for debut albums, of course).

 

If you were to deny people the means of discovering obscure music, which these days is mainly piracy, obscure music would die.

 

There are quite a few avenues to legitimately sample music. I have a hard time believing this obscure music you are talking about is only available via illegal methods.

 

Other than youtube (which is **** quality and inconvenient), no, there really isn't.

One word: Pandora

[Oblarg]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

 

No, it's really not. Is someone supposed to buy an album on a leap of faith? Christ, it would take several hundred dollars just to stumble upon a band you enjoy. I don't know about you, but I only buy music from bands that I already know and enjoy (exception for debut albums, of course).

 

If you were to deny people the means of discovering obscure music, which these days is mainly piracy, obscure music would die.

 

There are quite a few avenues to legitimately sample music. I have a hard time believing this obscure music you are talking about is only available via illegal methods.

 

Other than youtube (which is **** quality and inconvenient), no, there really isn't.

One word: Pandora

 

Pandora is ****. Bad at approximating taste, arbitrary limit on number of song skips, pretty limited library, and annoying interface (really, I'll stick with a standard media player). Last.fm is a bit better, but it suffers from similar problems. Besides, it's much easier to get a feel for a band when you have their entire discography available in mp3 format.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Oblarg

[Meshugger]

Meh, my original intent was not about the morality of piracy, rather how interest groups try give themselves extra legal mandate in order to

 

1) control what's on the internet, all in the name of fighting piracy

2) undermine the point of all been equal under the law

 

This whole "hurr-durr it's theft, pay millions of dollars NAO!" is so silly that it isn't even funny. The smart ones in the industry will adapt to the situation and turn it into profit (iTunes, Steam, Spotify, Netflix) and those who don't will fail. End of story.

 

Like radio destroyed the LP, like VHS destroyed movies, like the cassette destroyed the....wait.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Meshugger

[Nepenthe]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

 

I'd say that's the only valid reason I can think of. And by 'hard', I mean limited /200, where 187 albums were destroyed in a fire and the remaining ones are owned by an eccentric billionaire.

 

Sometimes, there simply is no legal way to purchase something. (And before the weed-smokers rejoice, that is not really the point here)

[Oblarg]

That is a fairly ridiculous argument. It's ok to pirate because the album is difficult to find? Really, that's a major stretch.

 

I'd say that's the only valid reason I can think of. And by 'hard', I mean limited /200, where 187 albums were destroyed in a fire and the remaining ones are owned by an eccentric billionaire.

 

Sometimes, there simply is no legal way to purchase something. (And before the weed-smokers rejoice, that is not really the point here)

 

You misunderstand - it's not pirating something because you are unable to buy it. It's pirating something to see if you like it, because it's not worth throwing $20/album at a band's discography to see if you enjoy their music. Mainstream music gets enough exposure that people can generally know if they like a band or not before buying an album. Underground music does not.