SW:TOR

[Oblarg]

So, I only just now bothered to go and see how badly BioWare has shat all over all of the depth KotOR2 added to the KotOR backstory, and I'm genuinely pissed off about it.

 

Apparently, according to BioWare, we should ignore all of the hints Kreia dropped about Revan having greater things in mind - no, he simply ran into the "real" bad guy and was consequently corrupted. How ****ing original and inspired!

 

What a waste of a perfectly good series.

[Purkake]

Tell us how you really feel.

 

Also, it's pretty obvious that Revan ran into the Yuuzhan Vong.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Purkake

[Bos_hybrid]

What a waste of a perfectly good series.

 

I thought that was decided after it was announced it was going to be an MMO?

[Oblarg]

What a waste of a perfectly good series.

 

I thought that was decided after it was announced it was going to be an MMO?

 

They didn't have to completely retcon all the interesting things KotOR2 added to the series simply because it's an MMO, though. It's as if BioWare honestly tries to make their characters one-dimensional.

[Serrano]

Knowing Bioware there's probably more to it than that and will be revealed in the game. That said it does sound like he's becoming a sort of Jeckle & Hyde parody. Maybe he'll have a twitch this time, once for light side, twice for dark?

[WorstUsernameEver]

What we know for sure is that Revan's fall to the dark side was if not caused, certainly helped by the True Sith.

What we don't know is if his war against the Republic, where he meticulously conserved the Republic infrastructures, was meant to help or hinder them.

What we know is that Kreia pretty much drooled every time she mentioned Revan's name, so it's not like she was particularly objective about him. She's also a consummate liar who could have lied about Revan simply to justify herself

What we know is that the True Sith were delayed for 200 years after Revan went into space to search for them, so it's not a stretch to imagine that he had some kind of plan to stop them or, at least, delay them.

 

As much as I'm not particularly thrilled about what I saw of TOR, it's too early to just cry retcons and Bioware killing KOTOR2's depth.

[Nepenthe]

Wouldn't be the first time trailers for bio games give grossly simplified or outright wrong information.

 

Still not going to buy into the game until there's an os x client.

[Oner]

What we know is that Kreia pretty much drooled every time she mentioned Revan's name, so it's not like she was particularly objective about him. She's also a consummate liar who could have lied about Revan simply to justify herself

Weren't you the one who told me that it was pretty obvious that Kreia didn't lie to you?

[WorstUsernameEver]

What we know is that Kreia pretty much drooled every time she mentioned Revan's name, so it's not like she was particularly objective about him. She's also a consummate liar who could have lied about Revan simply to justify herself

Weren't you the one who told me that it was pretty obvious that Kreia didn't lie to you?

 

I don't remember the context to be honest, but I am just saying it would not be outlandish to justify it that way. Granted, it would bother me more than a little bit if Bioware completely ignored KOTOR2...

[Raithe]

There was the "Mysteries" teaser trailer that hints there's a lot more to the story of Revan then just the simple "he met the True Sith and was corrupted" ... so apparently there is going to be a rather extensive "quest/adventure" arc that will be open to certain groups...

 

And it looks like at least a cameo of someone with the catchphrase of "meatbags."

 

Edit: Dang it..that's what you get for rapid copy'n'paste..

Edited September 16, 2010 by Raithe

[Oner]

Fix your link Raithe.

 

Worst: We talked about her after an ign top 100 bad guys list was posted.

[Hurlshort]

Dang, this is really going to ruin that record the Star Wars universe has had for avoiding plot holes!

[Tale]

What we know is that Kreia pretty much drooled every time she mentioned Revan's name, so it's not like she was particularly objective about him. She's also a consummate liar who could have lied about Revan simply to justify herself

Weren't you the one who told me that it was pretty obvious that Kreia didn't lie to you?

 

I don't remember the context to be honest, but I am just saying it would not be outlandish to justify it that way. Granted, it would bother me more than a little bit if Bioware completely ignored KOTOR2...

The background for Miriluka mentions that Visas Marr helped rebuild the Jedi order. So they're definitely not completely ignoring it.

[Nepenthe]

What we know is that Kreia pretty much drooled every time she mentioned Revan's name, so it's not like she was particularly objective about him. She's also a consummate liar who could have lied about Revan simply to justify herself

Weren't you the one who told me that it was pretty obvious that Kreia didn't lie to you?

 

I don't remember the context to be honest, but I am just saying it would not be outlandish to justify it that way. Granted, it would bother me more than a little bit if Bioware completely ignored KOTOR2...

The background for Miriluka mentions that Visas Marr helped rebuild the Jedi order. So they're definitely not completely ignoring it.

 

They're probably working on what was 'canonised' into the SW bible afterwards. IIRC that's a lot of the side characters, but Revan and Exile have not been written up a bit more than is necessary. Wookiepedia probably has something that is close to the official version, for those who really care.

[WorstUsernameEver]

The background for Miriluka mentions that Visas Marr helped rebuild the Jedi order. So they're definitely not completely ignoring it.

 

I wasn't aware of that, it's certainly a nice touch. And in fact, I didn't want to imply that Bioware was completely ignoring it, just say that if they did it would piss me off, since as unfinished as it was, there was a lot of material worth preserving.

[Purkake]

Dang, this is really going to ruin that record the Star Wars universe has had for avoiding plot holes!

A Yuuzhan Vong did it!

Edited September 16, 2010 by Purkake

[Oner]

Dang, this is really going to ruin that record the Star Wars universe has had for avoiding plot holes!

The Yuuzhan Vong did it!

And it was glorious.

[HoonDing]

What we know for sure is that Revan's fall to the dark side was if not caused, certainly helped by the True Sith.

What we don't know is if his war against the Republic, where he meticulously conserved the Republic infrastructures, was meant to help or hinder them.

What we know is that Kreia pretty much drooled every time she mentioned Revan's name, so it's not like she was particularly objective about him. She's also a consummate liar who could have lied about Revan simply to justify herself

What we know is that the True Sith were delayed for 200 years after Revan went into space to search for them, so it's not a stretch to imagine that he had some kind of plan to stop them or, at least, delay them.

 

As much as I'm not particularly thrilled about what I saw of TOR, it's too early to just cry retcons and Bioware killing KOTOR2's depth.

The Old Republic comic from Dark Horse establishes that Revan & Malak were made lapdogs of the Sith Emperor and were sent back to Republic space to prepare the return of the Sith.

 

About time he fell off his pedestal, anyway.

[Oblarg]

What we know for sure is that Revan's fall to the dark side was if not caused, certainly helped by the True Sith.

What we don't know is if his war against the Republic, where he meticulously conserved the Republic infrastructures, was meant to help or hinder them.

What we know is that Kreia pretty much drooled every time she mentioned Revan's name, so it's not like she was particularly objective about him. She's also a consummate liar who could have lied about Revan simply to justify herself

What we know is that the True Sith were delayed for 200 years after Revan went into space to search for them, so it's not a stretch to imagine that he had some kind of plan to stop them or, at least, delay them.

 

As much as I'm not particularly thrilled about what I saw of TOR, it's too early to just cry retcons and Bioware killing KOTOR2's depth.

The Old Republic comic from Dark Horse establishes that Revan & Malak were made lapdogs of the Sith Emperor and were sent back to Republic space to prepare the return of the Sith.

 

About time he fell off his pedestal, anyway.

 

Wookieepedia confirms this, and it pretty much robs the KotOR backstory of any depth it had. Gone is the Revan who had sympathizeable motivations. I guess BioWare is too good for things like character depth. What a pity.

 

I think discounting Kreia as having lied or being mistaken about Revan is a copout - the story gains much more from Kreia being correct, and there's absolutely no doubt that she was intended to be correct (as Kreia's entire character was sort of a voice for Chris Avellone's views on the star wars universe). Unfortunately, it sort of blurs the "light side good, dark side bad" dogma, which may ultimately be why BioWare is going to ignore it. Kreia's lines are certainly pretty strongly worded: "...perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil." Sure, there is a lot of conjecture in there, but several things are stated in absolutes ("The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war...") and in the context of the game I think it's overwhelmingly obvious this is intended to add depth to Revan's character for a (now non-existent) sequel.

 

Though, if you read through their website, they also portray Kreia as a one-dimensional villain with no motivations outside of hating the force, which is pretty insulting to the character's writing. It's clear if you read the dialogue that Kreia's actions are mainly driven by her desire to preserve, train, and test the Exile. She even describes her own actions at the end of the game as a manner of "final test."

Edited September 16, 2010 by Oblarg

[Tale]

I always thought the "Revan was attacking the Republic to make it stronger to fight against the True Sith" angle was utter tosh.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Tale

[HoonDing]

Revan & the Exile disappearing into the Unknown Regions was originally just a way to get rid of a powerful character to make way for new characters in sequels.

 

It doesn't make sense for Revan to go into the Unknown Regions alone, at any rate, if he got seemingly subjugated by the Sith Empire years before. What would make sense is Revan staying behind and becoming some kind of war leader of the Republic in preparation of the coming war.

 

Giving Revan a role similar to Conan in Age of Conan would've worked out.

[Raithe]

Wookieepedia confirms this, and it pretty much robs the KotOR backstory of any depth it had. Gone is the Revan who had sympathizeable motivations. I guess BioWare is too good for things like character depth. What a pity.

 

I think discounting Kreia as having lied or being mistaken about Revan is a copout - the story gains much more from Kreia being correct, and there's absolutely no doubt that she was intended to be correct (as Kreia's entire character was sort of a voice for Chris Avellone's views on the star wars universe). Unfortunately, it sort of blurs the "light side good, dark side bad" dogma, which may ultimately be why BioWare is going to ignore it. Kreia's lines are certainly pretty strongly worded: "...perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil." Sure, there is a lot of conjecture in there, but several things are stated in absolutes ("The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war...") and in the context of the game I think it's overwhelmingly obvious this is intended to add depth to Revan's character for a (now non-existent) sequel.

 

Though, if you read through their website, they also portray Kreia as a one-dimensional villain with no motivations outside of hating the force, which is pretty insulting to the character's writing. It's clear if you read the dialogue that Kreia's actions are mainly driven by her desire to preserve, train, and test the Exile. She even describes her own actions at the end of the game as a manner of "final test."

 

 

Which also sounds a lot like the whole "Legacy" series where Solo's son turns to the dark side to save the Republic/Galactic Federation.. and right at the end when he finally gets "killed" has the whole "Hey, this brought everyone together to deal with this.. it worked..." final lines

 

So you could say that the official SW lore liked the Revan sacrifice idea so much they put their own variation on it...

[Oner]

Though, if you read through their website

Whose?

 

 

I always thought the "Revan was attacking the Republic to make it stronger to fight against the True Sith" angle was utter tosh.

For one, we never learn Revan's MO while he led the sith (I didn't at least), so it can fly.

OTOH, he tried to kill his rivals at Malachor.

Still, yeah, as nice as it sounds, it's pretty bull.

"Hm, how could we beat the sith? ..I know! Let's kill our best generals, pretend we're all sih then attack the Republic! I'm soo brilliant, if I may say so myself."

 

 

So you could say that the official SW lore liked the Revan sacrifice idea so much they put their own variation on it...

I thought that book is older than the KotORs. Edited September 16, 2010 by Oner

[HoonDing]

It wouldn't be Star Wars if history didn't repeat itself over and over again..

 

So you could say that the official SW lore liked the Revan sacrifice idea so much they put their own variation on it...

I thought that book is older than the KotORs.

Nope.

Edited September 16, 2010 by virumor

[Wrath of Dagon]

lol at anyone who expects a coherent story from Bio