Teen Banned from US

[mkreku]

First, thanks for the links. I did not know there was such a difference, as I live in Sweden. The country Julian Assange flees to after being hunted in the US for publishing what he considers should fall under the freedom of speech act (I am undecided about that myself, as it is being tested right now).. Being able to provide such specific links makes you seem very knowledgeable, I'll admit.

 

But then..

 

"...P with an ENIS at the end"

 

as that is an english word...

 

...is the result o' your ignorance. once you recognize that point you will maybe be able to back out graceful... but we doubt it.

So you claim P with an ENIS is an English word, accuse me of ignorance and wants me to back out of the thread..?

 

Here, if you think English is the problem: http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_post...5712&start=

 

I am not losing sight of the big picture. In fact, I think you are blind to the big picture because you're in the middle of it. My whole point is that you may think you have freedom of speech (since it is written in law and your Holy Paper), you pride yourself on it and talk about it all the time, but in reality.. you don't see it. You let corporate powers run all over it (national TV, most mainstream US media, this very board), you let your government distort it (don't threaten the president!, don't publish our secrets!). You even go so far as to call out LIBERTY to defend your right to this self-censoring (which might be the dumbest thing I've read on this board ever, and I've read the thread trying to teach Wrath of Dagon statistics). I see a clear difference between how Europe (or at least the Nordic countries, Germany, France and England) and the US behave in regards to this subject and I am genuinely interested as to why it exists.

 

My own conclusion is a marked difference between general moral standards and nations being reflected in how different companies set up their boards. You desperately claim it isn't so, but your arguments are bordering on silly (European boards are insignificant, because they want to, because it's their liberty, etc.) and I am not convinced.

[mkreku]

Ok, that thread got out of hand in a heartbeat.

[Gromnir]

first of all, you is a bit late with the P and Enis clarification, but thanks for the info... and proving our point 'bout trivialities. type p3n15 and "forum" into your favorite search engine and you will find dozens o' American fora that allow the term... but so what? is not a meaningful free speech issue, and it sure not have anything to do with threats o' violence 'gainst the President. mk might be unaware, but threatening elected officials in sweden with physical violence is not protected in your homeland. publishing state secrets is also illegal in sweden, so am not sure of your point regarding assange, who is being prosecuted in multiple countries for hacking. assange has fled many different places. the fact that sweden might offer him a safe haven is hardly something to be proud of, but is historically consistent. am recalling that more than a few ww2 war criminals fled to sweden.

 

as for the rest... nice rhetoric, but no substance... which is what we has come to expect from you. generalizations 'bout the evils o' American media and government is hardly convincing. we provided cases showing how free speech is handled in the US. we also provided American and international articles identifying the differences 'tween American free speech and the euro/swede ideal. and most damning o' all, you still wanna ignore that your initial post were complete off the mark and pointless in regards to free speech.

 

"I see a clear difference between how Europe (or at least the Nordic countries, Germany, France and England) and the US behave in regards to this subject and I am genuinely interested as to why it exists."

 

the writers at the bbc, cbs and elsewhere also see a difference. they recognize that the US is more protective of free speech than most other western nations. maybe you should actually read the links provided... you might learn something. we learned origin o' p and enis, but you has learned nothing. sad.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps

Edited September 24, 2010 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

again, just 'cause mk is kinda slow to make connections, Gromnir has provided many links regarding how Free Speech is handled in the US and how educated folks outside the US compare the relative free speech protections o' the USA and europe (and sweden in particular.) free speech in the USA is offering citizens and the press freedom from government interference. free speech clearly is not meant to compel private citizens to endure offensive speech in their homes, business or places o' worship. actually, from a legal pov, it don't work any different in sweden either. however, Americans IS protected from government intrusions on their liberty, whereas swedish folks is apparently preoccupied with p3n15. here in the USA people can criticize muslims and jews and nazis and aliens from alpha centari. we can wear jackets that says "F&@% the Draft" when we walk into government buildings. burn a cross on a neighbor's lawn and you can gets thrown in jail or fined for trespass and other stuff, but NOT for hate speech or hate crime. sweden does have pretty expansive protections for freedom o' the press, which is why your example o' assange (the hacker and possible rapist) is noteworthy. even so, the Aftonbladet were fined in 2002 when some arguably racist yutz posted some ire-inducing messages on one o' the paper's message boards or chat rooms. the "racist" were posting from an American server, and his message were okie dokie in the US, but as the message violated sweden hate speech laws, Aftonbladet were libel for the publication. sweden has some pretty substantial free speech laws... compared to the rest o' europe. sadly, such swedish protections typically pale in comparison to American provisions.

 

 

mk wanna argue that Americans is prudish 'cause the first baptist church o' Stillwater, Oklahoma doesn't let him spam 'em with p and enis references? fine. argue that those darn Americans is a backwards and prudish lot and at least you gotta silly but arguable point. the notion that Obsidian should be compelled to allow you the use o' their private owned and run board to promote your message (regardless o' whether that message is offensive or just plain inane) is incomprehensible to Gromnir. perhaps you don't understand the meaning o' "liberty".

 

mk feels some sense o' national pride 'cause he can says p and enis on the ikea site? great. too bad you can't use " insulting language or behavior, whereby a person insults another by means of offensive invective or allegations or other insulting behavior towards him." you also is not protected when causing "agitation against a population group, whereby a person threatens or expresses contempt for a population group or other such group with allusion to race, color, national or ethnic origin, religious faith or sexual orientation." sssssoooooo pretty much half o' the stuff posted on the wot board is not actually protected speech in sweden... but you can says p and enis. congrats.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Humodour]

****.

[Gromnir]

****.

 

 

surely you can see the correlation 'tween a drunken uk citizen (ironically named luke Angel) being asked to stay outta the USA following an email tirade in which said bedfordshire resident threatened the President, and your inability to say **** sans censoring on the Obsidian boards.

 

...

 

no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nepenthe]

first of all, you is a bit late with the P and Enis clarification, but thanks for the info...

 

I'm pretty sure I brought it up earlier, but everybody's just ignoring me (which is usually for the best, so I'm not too unhappy about it.)

[Kaftan Barlast]

I thought freedom of speech meant that if you have a public forum, you have to let people say ****. it might be woned by someone, but its till public. If you had it running on a computer at your home and you had to be in your apartment to access it, then you might be allowed to decide your users cant say **** and ****.

[Monte Carlo]

^ Well at least you've learnt that your understanding was fatally flawed. This forum is private property and we are guests who have agreed to T&Cs when we registered. The end.

[mkreku]

blah blah

Those two posts you wrote would probably have been relevant if I had ever argued that Swedish freedom of speech laws were the 'best' in the world. I haven't.

 

Again you go on a rant about your precious laws, yet the difference in the real world remains. The difference being that in the US I have to search for an uncensored board while in Europe I have to search for a censored board. See the difference? You call it "backwards" and "prudish" and I call it American moral standards. Same ****, different name.

 

But I'm glad you came to your senses and admitted it!

[Meshugger]

I think that we also have to make a difference between a stand-alone-forum and a forum for a company that is selling a product. Mkreku, can you say "kuk, pissfitta, b

Edited September 24, 2010 by Meshugger

[Wrath of Dagon]

Didn't the Swedish government once shut down a website because it had a cartoon of Mohammed on it? http://www.uta.fi/laitokset/politiikka/opi...TS1_Arter_5.pdf

 

When the government learned of the cartoon, the internet service provider was pressurised to close the party’s website down

lol pressurized

 

But that's OK, it's more important to be able to swear on any forum, that's true freedom of speech.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[Meshugger]

I dunno about Sweden, but in Finland free speech is less compared to the US. We have different hate speech laws against people of different religions, blasphemy and so on. This is ofcourse extended to the arts as well. But thankfully foreign radio and TV, and nowadays the internet makes a perfect platform to express your opinion.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Unless you opinions aren't liked by the mods.

[Gromnir]

blah blah

 

 

But I'm glad you came to your senses and admitted it!

 

 

...

 

am not sure why you thinks our links is irrelevant. you suggested a difference 'tween euro and American free speech. we agreed that there is a difference: the US is more protective o' free speech rights than is virtual all o' europe. is bbc and international commentators who back that position up... as opposed to mk's gut level p and enis testing.

 

as for our admissions... we admitted that you were dazed, confused, or complete ignorant, when you suggested some wacky correlation 'tween drunken uk college students being banned from future US travel, and your inability to say p and enis on the obsidian boards. many euros such as walsh and mc seem to understands that your rant 'bout freedom o' speech and p and enis is misplaced when speaking o' a privately owned and maintained message board, but if you wanna continue to expose your ignorance, we is more than willing to drag this out indefinite.

 

keep up the good work.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 24, 2010 by Gromnir

[Nepenthe]

Walsingham and Monte Carlo are British, though - they don't really count as Europeans.

 

And no, I'm not completely joking

Edited September 25, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Raithe]

Walsingham and Monte Carlo are British, though - they don't really count as Europeans.

 

And no, I'm not completely joking

 

Hey, and you have to be careful on the use of British... That's like.. the collective of English, Welsh and Scottish.

 

 

Which is really annoying with how a lot of government forms these days don't list English as a possibility to put down. If you want to say you're English you have to tick "Other" and write it in yourself..

[Nepenthe]

Hey, and you have to be careful on the use of British... That's like.. the collective of English, Welsh and Scottish.

 

That was mostly intentional on my part.

[Monte Carlo]

Walsingham and Monte Carlo are British, though - they don't really count as Europeans.

 

Freaking 'A' I'm not European.

[Orogun01]

Walsingham and Monte Carlo are British, though - they don't really count as Europeans.

 

Freaking 'A' I'm not European.

Then what are you?Asian?

[Meshugger]

He's a Briton of course. The british have no cultural/racial/lingvistic connection with barbarians at the continent at all.

[Hurlshort]

We are forgetting the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes.

[Gorth]

A bit funny since invading England is a favourite occupation amongst its neighbours. The Celts did it, the Saxons did it, The Danes did it, the Iriash had a go at it every now and then, the Normans did it, the Scots did it etc. resulting in a country where most of its people are of either German, French or Danish origin. Even the royal family is German (Hannoverian) iirc.

[Oblarg]

A bit funny since invading England is a favourite occupation amongst its neighbours. The Celts did it, the Saxons did it, The Danes did it, the Iriash had a go at it every now and then, the Normans did it, the Scots did it etc. resulting in a country where most of its people are of either German, French or Danish origin. Even the royal family is German (Hannoverian) iirc.

 

Question is: Why would anyone want to conquer Britain? Certainly not for the lovely weather.

[Gromnir]

Walsingham and Monte Carlo are British, though - they don't really count as Europeans.

 

Freaking 'A' I'm not European.

 

mk lumped England in with the rest o' enlightened europe, so we were willing to accept his misguided proposition. am apologizing if we offended any o' you snaggle-toothed plonkers with our flawed characterization.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps mk might take note that plonker is not censored.