C&VG: Sega rules out Alpha Protocol sequel

[Flouride]

Nice move by Sega... again.

 

Would AP2 be viable option for some publisher after FNV and DS3? Maybe. If those games are succesful (not buggy, good reviews, good looking etc..) some publisher might think why not give Obsidian another chance with AP. The game has some great elements, but need some tuning and polishing to get the masses excited.

 

If that publisher is any good at all at what they do, they would "force" Obsidian to make some changes to the game to respond some of the critique aimed at AP. Just by tuning the shooting the mechanics to feel more like a shooter and not a rpg (since apparently having rpg mechanics in a rpg is bad) would it make more commercially viable.

 

Though I'm pretty sure it would require a demo or/and some really great reviews to get people to buy a sequel to a game they disliked.

[Altered Idol]

I bought AP straight after release having been drawn to the game for various reasons, most notably being a RPG fanatic. AP stood out because it had a modern day setting and was similar in style to ME and DA:O in terms of graphics and gameplay.

 

Both of those games are on my top five list of favourites and AP is included right alongside them. This game did have a fair few flaws and lacked a bit of polish but overall it was a great gaming experience, creating a believable and realistic game world told through a truly exceptional narrative. The dialogue system was immense and the choices you made did truly alter the story, as was demonstrated to me by various playthroughs.

 

The fact this game may not be getting a sequel is a tragedy. Every game has negatives but unlike some, AP had the potential to rid itself of those negatives and become a truly epic series, had it been given true support. Instead it looks like being consigned to the list of great games that have been canned (such as Grim Fandango) whilst other series somehow persevere.

 

I am hoping sense is seen and AP2 is created, free from the issues of the first game and continuing its excellent platform of story telling.

[Hassat Hunter]

Just by tuning the shooting the mechanics to feel more like a shooter and not a rpg (since apparently having rpg mechanics in a rpg is bad) would it make more commercially viable.

Gee, I hope not.

 

Do we really need a second ME2?

[Flouride]

Just by tuning the shooting the mechanics to feel more like a shooter and not a rpg (since apparently having rpg mechanics in a rpg is bad) would it make more commercially viable.

Gee, I hope not.

 

Do we really need a second ME2?

 

Not really, but I think it's safe to say people hate rpg mechanics deciding if they hit or miss in a game that plays like a first person shooter. By people I mean the majority of gamers.

[Oblarg]

The problem with action RPGs is that RPG mechanics and twitch aiming are inherently incompatible, because they are two different ways of determining the same thing (i.e. whether or not your bullet hits the target). If you require perfect twitch aiming and throw RNG on top of that (AP) you end up with something that can be frustratingly hard. If you tune down the twitch aiming with auto-aim and rely more on the stats and RNG you end up with shooting that feels clunky and superfluous (ME1). If you throw out the RNG and rely entirely on twitch aiming you get something which unsurprisingly doesn't feel like an RPG (ME2). It's a tough balance to nail.

 

I don't think AP was terribly far off the ideal balance, but there is certainly lots of room for improvement. Really, I think the only way to get it right is to test lots and lots of different systems.

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

You know, considering that this game has probably sold a million by now, it's fairly clear that the issue doesn't so much lie with any incredible faults with the game, so much as it does with SEGA pouring massive amounts of money into a game that would never sell that much to begin with. It's very obvious that a lot of mismanagement went on even if you ignore a lot of the stories from people who worked on the game, simply because you should be able to at least break even on something that hits a million or so, unless you're going for a blockbuster release. I think SEGA might have set their sites way too high and now naturally take it out on the developers - pretty much a story told a thousand times in the game industry.

[Hassat Hunter]

AP's combat system was too hard? Seriously?

 

What's so difficult about waiting 10 seconds for the reticle to be perfectly closed, then making an insta-kill headshot?

 

Then again, I've played Deus Ex, which apparently is downright impossible due to this combat system. Waiting for a shot... seriously? What do they think of next? AIMING?

[Karl the Unfettered]

That's what the SMGs are for, people who don't wanna wait to line up the shot.

 

Personally I thought AP's combat was kinda easy. Most of the time I don't even bother with guns unless there's a bunch of mooks; I just sprint up, knee them in the face and stomp them when they're down. Any hits they land are absorbed by armor/endurance, and if I actually take any damage there's probably a health station just around the corner anyway (if not, I just play it a little more cautiously until I find one).

[MysterD]

AP's combat system was too hard? Seriously?

 

What's so difficult about waiting 10 seconds for the reticle to be perfectly closed, then making an insta-kill headshot?

I don't think that is the problem.

 

The problem is when you play a game and its controls feel like a shooter - i.e. you aim down the sights, move the reticle right on their head, so it's plain obviously your shot should hit them - for some reason, the game might just calculate your shot as a "miss," resulting in no damage for a head-shot.

 

That's just silly. At least give me "some" damage here...

[Hassat Hunter]

I've yet to miss a fully aimed assault rifle/pistol shot.

 

What you say doesn't happen when aiming. This isn't Bloodlines, this is Alpha Protocol.

[Morgoth]

This is good news. I hope after the massive success that will be F:NV, SquareEnix is gonna give Obsidian a chance to publish AP2.

[Zack Fair]

Just by tuning the shooting the mechanics to feel more like a shooter and not a rpg (since apparently having rpg mechanics in a rpg is bad) would it make more commercially viable.

Gee, I hope not.

 

Do we really need a second ME2?

 

Not really, but I think it's safe to say people hate rpg mechanics deciding if they hit or miss in a game that plays like a first person shooter. By people I mean the majority of gamers.

Well, nobody is forcing them to play an RPG. If they want to play a shooter, they should play ME2.

[Karl the Unfettered]

Or Resident Evil 4.

[Oblarg]

Here's the thing - with twitch aiming, people expect their shots to go where the reticle is pointed. Yes, fully aimed crits always hit, but really on a pistol those didn't become practical until you reached the higher skill levels. I said "can be frustratingly hard," and it certainly can if you go into the game expecting the shooting to play out like a standard shooter, and consequently not hit a damn thing.

 

Now before you all jump down my throats about "well, it's an RPG, not a shooter," I personally think the shooting in AP worked fine once you got used to the system and got your weapon skill up. That said, the scaling with weapon skill was pretty wonky (abysmally bad accuracy and short range in the beginning, pinpoint accuracy and nearly unlimited range by the end), the close-range weapons (SMG, shotgun) simply didn't work too well because the level design didn't really accommodate players who wanted to only use them, and the RNG versus twitch aiming balance overall was not as good as it could have been. The "wait for aim to narrow before shooting" mechanic worked fine once you got used to it, but the balance of crit versus noncrit was so bad (especially for pistol) that you could spray an entire clip at a point blank foe and barely do any damage. That's not a good system. I appreciate the idea behind the crits, but standard shooting must be viable, or at least not completely hopeless, if you want a smooth system.

[Rostere]

I've yet to miss a fully aimed assault rifle/pistol shot.

 

What you say doesn't happen when aiming. This isn't Bloodlines, this is Alpha Protocol.

 

I agree... Also, I don't really understand those who say standard shooting is completely hopeless. Are you using a weapon you have no skill in on the hardest difficulty?

[Pop]

Ex-Obsidian designer Patrick K. Mills said Obsidian owns Alpha Protocol IP.

Oh Patrick, you were always a scrapper.

[Oblarg]

I've yet to miss a fully aimed assault rifle/pistol shot.

 

What you say doesn't happen when aiming. This isn't Bloodlines, this is Alpha Protocol.

 

I agree... Also, I don't really understand those who say standard shooting is completely hopeless. Are you using a weapon you have no skill in on the hardest difficulty?

 

Max your pistol skill, and try to spam a few shots at a nearby enemy. You'll be lucky if you scratch him.

[Tigranes]

What? At max pistol skill your reticule zooms in as soon as you aim at an enemy. It only takes half a second for it to become a tiny dot - in other words, half a second to headshot an enemy from max range.

 

it's just blatant exaggeration, if you aim properly you can get headshots most of the time even in the Greybox.

[Flouride]

Well, nobody is forcing them to play an RPG. If they want to play a shooter, they should play ME2.

 

True, but some of these guys are actually paid to play the game....

[Hassat Hunter]

When people say "pistol is unhandable" they do mean "the pistol is so redicilously overpowered it insta-kills EVERYONE throughout the entire game, from mere starter terrortists to bosses in 1 shot"... RIGHT?

Sure, you have to close in a bit more than the rifle, unless you use Cheat Shot, but it's well worth the effort to move closer.

 

In most of my rifle games I have to do EFFFORT to even miss. Enemies just fall so quickly (read: instantly) to 3 headshots to the head, and with even half the skillbar it takes next to no time for the reticle to close.

[Oner]

I have to hand it to Angry Joe, the first minute of his review highlights the problem with pistols unmistakably.

 

The players are retarded.

 

[Oblarg]

What? At max pistol skill your reticule zooms in as soon as you aim at an enemy. It only takes half a second for it to become a tiny dot - in other words, half a second to headshot an enemy from max range.

 

it's just blatant exaggeration, if you aim properly you can get headshots most of the time even in the Greybox.

 

I've already stated that once you get used to the system, with max skill in pistols the shooting works fine.

 

That's not standard shooting. Standard shooting involves putting as many rounds on target as quickly as possible until the target dies. You can't do that in AP with any efficacy at all, which understandably frustrates many people who came to the game expecting the shooting portion to function like a standard shooter.

 

And the scaling with skill is unbelievably wonky.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Oblarg

[Hassat Hunter]

That works for rifles though.

 

If you want to play like that, use rifles, not the pistol. The pistol is for stealthy lethal takedowns.

 

But I suppose that's a flaw, that a SECONDARY weapon actually doesn't work as well in combat as an ASSAULT rifle. I mean, who would think of that, people with "common sense"? Surely, who has that?

 

@ Oner: Lol, exactly.

I once tried introducing AP to a console-playing friend of mine and I could say "wait for the reticle to close" a zillion times and he still shot around like an idiot wasting all his ammo.

[WorstUsernameEver]

If the majority of people are not getting how the system works maybe you have to rethink at least how to present it.

[Purkake]

If the majority of people are not getting how the system works maybe you have to rethink at least how to present it.

Yup, or don't make the game for the mainstream if you think your system is superior.