Israel

[Gorgon]

No, these were Turkish militant activists, they are not the same 'people' as the Hamas militants during the Israli incursion. Details matter.

[Gorgon]

There is little doubt that the action only became a success because of the fatalities though. Not everyone is sufficiently cynical to admit it, but it's surely true.

[Dark_Raven]

5 of these activists died of head shots, at point blank range. Sounds like an execution to me.

 

 

Isarealis editing footage, editing pictures, sounds like a group of people trying to prove their innocence.

 

Yeah I got your foot in mouth right here pal.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Dark_Raven

[Wrath of Dagon]

Clubs are used at point blank range, in case you didn't know. If the militants were far away, there would not be any need to shoot them. And it wasn't Israel editing pictures, it was Reuters to make Israel look bad.

[Calax]

Clubs are used at point blank range, in case you didn't know. If the militants were far away, there would not be any need to shoot them. And it wasn't Israel editing pictures, it was Reuters to make Israel look bad.

Generally when somebody is coming at you with a club, you don't exactly have time to line up for a head shot. Particularly in a melee like that shown on the video where, you know, people are jostling for better positioning to fight, and probably would knock your arm in the wrong direction.

 

Also, why is it some mass media conspiracy to discredit Israel? Why didn't you bring up said conspiracy when they actually were kinda supporting Israel? Like when Fox News Glenn Beck (no I don't like bringing him into every conversation, but he's just the easiest target) tells us that he video of the Israeli commandos roping in obviously shows that Israel was justified in their use of force (and that you won't see said video on any other channel, dispite it being shown on every major network in the previous 48 hours).

[213374U]

5 of these activists died of head shots, at point blank range. Sounds like an execution to me.

 

 

Isarealis editing footage, editing pictures, sounds like a group of people trying to prove their innocence.

 

Yeah I got your foot in mouth right here pal.

You haven't got any better at this whole "reading" business, I see.

 

 

Generally when somebody is coming at you with a club, you don't exactly have time to line up for a head shot. Particularly in a melee like that shown on the video where, you know, people are jostling for better positioning to fight, and probably would knock your arm in the wrong direction.

A lot of guessing and assuming there, champ. How many times have you been involved in life-or-death CQC scenarios? Got any commando training techniques you'd like to share with us, that you are basing your assumptions on?

 

And, by the way, point blank isn't execution style... it's exactly the distance at which an attacker with blunt weapons or knifes would be shot at.

[Calax]

Generally when somebody is coming at you with a club, you don't exactly have time to line up for a head shot. Particularly in a melee like that shown on the video where, you know, people are jostling for better positioning to fight, and probably would knock your arm in the wrong direction.

A lot of guessing and assuming there, champ. How many times have you been involved in life-or-death CQC scenarios? Got any commando training techniques you'd like to share with us, that you are basing your assumptions on?

 

And, by the way, point blank isn't execution style... it's exactly the distance at which an attacker with blunt weapons or knifes would be shot at.

Do you have anything to say that somehow a person in the middle of a jostling shifting mob can maintain a steady enough aim to hit somebody in the head?

[Humodour]

I heard the scuba divers were also killed execution style. Why?

[Walsingham]

Cal, you don't have to shoot someone in the head on purpose. You can do it by accident.

[Calax]

Cal, you don't have to shoot someone in the head on purpose. You can do it by accident.

The way I was hearing it sounded more like execution style headshots that left neat little bullet wounds from a slight distance, rather than "Whups my hand slipped and blew your cheek apart... sorry dude"

[Walsingham]

Fair enough. I'm just saying that aiming at the head and hitting is different to aiming at the person and hitting the head.

[Nemo0071]

5 of these activists died of head shots, at point blank range.

Cal, you don't have to shoot someone in the head on purpose. You can do it by accident.

5 times?

 

Just going by the posts here, btw.

[Wrath of Dagon]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

[Walsingham]

5 of these activists died of head shots, at point blank range.

Cal, you don't have to shoot someone in the head on purpose. You can do it by accident.

5 times?

 

Just going by the posts here, btw.

 

Me too. Sights error? Ranged at longer distance?

[heathen]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

 

You probably have no idea what you're talking about.

[Walsingham]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

 

You probably have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Hold on. Let's check.

 

Hands up, any commandos on the forum?

[Calax]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

 

You probably have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Hold on. Let's check.

 

Hands up, any commandos on the forum?

Not I, but everything I was told in the military and have seen in semi-realistic military fiction is that you always shoot for the chest/center of mass so that you have a much better chance of hitting stuff.

[Walsingham]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

 

You probably have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Hold on. Let's check.

 

Hands up, any commandos on the forum?

Not I, but everything I was told in the military and have seen in semi-realistic military fiction is that you always shoot for the chest/center of mass so that you have a much better chance of hitting stuff.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you there. As I understand it you want to hit a point dead centre, anywhere from the nose down to the bottom of the sternum. However, if your sights are set a few hundred yards too far away, and you factor in recoil it's possible (I have no idea how possible) that you'd shoot high.

[ShadySands]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

 

You probably have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Hold on. Let's check.

 

Hands up, any commandos on the forum?

Not I, but everything I was told in the military and have seen in semi-realistic military fiction is that you always shoot for the chest/center of mass so that you have a much better chance of hitting stuff.

 

Aiming center mass is good when shooting at a distance but if your opponent is only a few feet away... I was no commando but we often did firing drills where we would aim for the head while moving. It's not much of a stretch to me for someone with much more extensive combat training to get a head shot in a split second at that range.

[Wrath of Dagon]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

 

You probably have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Hold on. Let's check.

 

Hands up, any commandos on the forum?

I watched the "The Deadliest Warrior". Does that count? I think it's one in the head, two in the chest.

[ShadySands]

As commandos, they're probably trained to shoot in the head. Plus if you're close, that's where the shot naturally lines up, and there's no time to aim.

 

You probably have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Hold on. Let's check.

 

Hands up, any commandos on the forum?

I watched the "The Deadliest Warrior". Does that count? I think it's one in the head, two in the chest.

 

It's two in the chest then one in the head, a failure to stop drill.

[Gorth]

For all the media attention, hype, propaganda and mutual (presumably) lies, it isn't the largest number of casualties on a non-combatant ship attacked by Israel in high seas. I believe the attack on the USS Liberty holds that little enviable record with more than 30 dead Americans and 170 wounded.

[Walsingham]

I also have to say that I love the way we go all armchair analyst every time something like this happens. Yet you look at the more 'mundane' enquiries that happen with virtually any police complaint and you find those are unresolvable a lot of the time.

 

If you run with scissors, people get hurt.

[Gorth]

On the internet, we are all experts

[213374U]

Do you have anything to say that somehow a person in the middle of a jostling shifting mob can maintain a steady enough aim to hit somebody in the head?

Do you have anything to say that they were aiming for the head, and that the headshots were the only wounds received by those killed that way? Do you have anything to say about IDF rules of engagement pertaining to their use of deadly force? Do you have anything to say about IDF commando conditioning techniques with regards to high-stress situations?

 

Because I don't.

 

 

Not I, but everything I was told in the military and have seen in semi-realistic military fiction is that you always shoot for the chest/center of mass so that you have a much better chance of hitting stuff.

Uh-huh. Because you were assigned to and completed your multi-year training in quick-response, high-risk units, and "semi-realistic" military fiction tells you everything you need to know about one day in the life of a commando, right? Edited June 16, 2010 by 213374U