Wombat Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 I didn't personally code it, but that is the way it is supposed to behave and appears to behave.Thanx. I guess I could have made use of my brains a bit. As for Turn-based vs Reatl-time with Pause, I saw a lot of arguments around Turn-based/Real-time and, as far as I am concerned, I concluded it ultimately end up with, again, personal preferences. However, if I follow the logic of this article (with the courtesy of funcroc), a possible problem would be that there wouldn't be FO:NV if FO hadn't had TB combat. FO might not have attracted young Sawyer enough to motivate him to make a game like it since he is not a great fan of realtime with pause (although he seems to be good at balancing it). Since we are not all from Black Isle boards, some may be interested in reading this piece of writing (The title seems to be from Bjork's song since, as far as I know, he is not Scandinavian ). It's always quite a surprise for me when some designers (even Avellone) mention that Fallout felt something new. For me, it felt something familiar...I think it is one of CRPGs successfully captured the feel of PnP as Spider wrote. For a certain people, the core game play of RPGs seem to be combat simulation plus exploration while I always regard RPG or role-playing game is more of simulation of worlds/characters (I would have nothing to complain of well-made combat system, though). When I read the writing, I felt Sawyer's idea is another attempt to allow the players to explore imaginary worlds with interesting themes and began to stalk him (funcroc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Ergh, sorry Wizardry 8 was slower and more ponderous than anything to do with FO3 VATS That's what I said. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 Ergh, sorry Wizardry 8 was slower and more ponderous than anything to do with FO3 VATS That's what I said. Indeed, my objection was with the "options and possibilities" line. I suppose I should have said "Ergh, sorry not only was Wizardy 8 slower and more ponderous than anything to with FO3 VATS, but..." Also VATS was optional, the borked combat system of Wiz8 was all there was. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Ergh, sorry Wizardry 8 was slower and more ponderous than anything to do with FO3 VATS That's what I said. Indeed, my objection was with the "options and possibilities" line. I suppose I should have said "Ergh, sorry not only was Wizardy 8 slower and more ponderous than anything to with FO3 VATS, but..." Also VATS was optional, the borked combat system of Wiz8 was all there was. Protect, defend, attack, cast spell, pray, change formation, use item, equip, move, beserk, breathe, banish... *shrug* Wiz 8 had more options than most crpgs do. VATS has exactly 0 options. WHich was my point. Nothing more. Certainly wasn't meant to be a referendum on Wiz 8 specifically. I remember when you played Wiz 8 through, I think it was back at the Lair. I remember you had a lot of issues with the combat system. Some I agree with; some I don't. But I do agree, as I said, that it was a slower and more time consuming and ponderous system, than VATS. But many other TB systems aren't. Which was my larger point. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Ergh, sorry Wizardry 8 was slower and more ponderous than anything to do with FO3 VATS That's what I said. Indeed, my objection was with the "options and possibilities" line. I suppose I should have said "Ergh, sorry not only was Wizardy 8 slower and more ponderous than anything to with FO3 VATS, but..." Also VATS was optional, the borked combat system of Wiz8 was all there was. Protect, defend, attack, cast spell, pray, change formation, use item, equip, move, beserk, breathe, banish... *shrug* Wiz 8 had more options than most crpgs do. VATS has exactly 0 options. WHich was my point. Nothing more. Certainly wasn't meant to be a referendum on Wiz 8 specifically. I remember when you played Wiz 8 through, I think it was back at the Lair. I remember you had a lot of issues with the combat system. Some I agree with; some I don't. But I do agree, as I said, that it was a slower and more time consuming and ponderous system, than VATS. But many other TB systems aren't. Which was my larger point. But in the end it doesn't matter what options you have in a game that loves combat consisting of a siege over a hill untargetable by any of your ranged attacks or spells but hitting you repeatedly with area affect spells (remember while you can change formation, you're stuck with your characters being huddled together and an area affect spell will hit them all) while you fight ghost trinnies, which was my point. There may be less options available to the player in FO3, but the options are generally useful. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 But in the end it doesn't matter what options you have in a game that loves combat consisting of a siege over a hill untargetable by any of your ranged attacks or spells but hitting you repeatedly with area affect spells (remember while you can change formation, you're stuck with your characters being huddled together and an area affect spell will hit them all) while you fight ghost trinnies, which was my point. It wasn't really my intent though to say much about Wiz 8, other than making a reference to it in passing. I agree with many of your points about it And I would agree that FO3, as a entire game experience, has more options than Wiz 8. But I'm not talking about FO3 as a whole though. I am specifically referring to VATS as used in FO3 vs other TB systems. I think FO3 overall is pretty good and New Veags is looking even better. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 holy crapples, only a few more months until new vegas gets released!! Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 ONLY a few more months? Page me when it is actually out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrerix Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 bear in mind that the only reason i signed onto these forums was cause i was so happy that obsidian was going to get a chance to make a fallout game. so it feels like i've been waiting a long time for this. only a few months feels pretty crazy to me... but go ahead and poop on my party, i dont care Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 That would be highly inappropriate, not to mention unhygienic. I remember why I joined, they closed the Black Isle Interplay boards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhailian Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 That would be highly inappropriate, not to mention unhygienic. I remember why I joined, they closed the Black Isle Interplay boards... I didn't have the internet back in those days. But for all of us, there will come a point where it does matter, and it's gonna be like having a miniature suit-head shoving sticks up your butt all the time. - Tigranes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deraldin Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 That would be highly inappropriate, not to mention unhygienic. I remember why I joined, they closed the Black Isle Interplay boards... Lies! Interplay forums were still functioning when these boards opened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Why did we all come here if Interplay boards were still working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Why did we all come here if Interplay boards were still working? Because FO3 and BG3 were cancelled, and most of the Black Isle staff had been laid off. (Or whatever you call it when an employee stops coming to work because his last payroll check bounced.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Oh, right. Too bad we don't have the archives from those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wombat Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 From 24:00 of this clip FO:NV part starts. From 26:03, they mention "breathing" which makes sniping difficult but is this true? I presume that it may be the strength penalty and or more unlikely, due to lack of enough skill points. Even if it is something like character stats related, I hope the final version of the game will make it clear to the players. BTW, a good punch for the reason why they couldn't know about dialogue if it doesn't help info-wise at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Just get the Expert Breather perk and you're set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) From 24:00 of this clip FO:NV part starts. From 26:03, they mention "breathing" which makes sniping difficult but is this true? I presume that it may be the strength penalty and or more unlikely, due to lack of enough skill points. Even if it is something like character stats related, I hope the final version of the game will make it clear to the players. BTW, a good punch for the reason why they couldn't know about dialogue if it doesn't help info-wise at all. Seems pretty clear that he's talking about the anti-materiel rifle which HAS a pretty steep strength requirement from what we've seen from the videos. Wouldn't be surprised if the sway was caused by that. EDIT : The starting areas are difficult? What game has he played? Honestly, are these guys doing reviews? Seriously? Edited July 2, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 The reviewers are reviewing the game for the average gamer, not the hardcore, so one would expect them to judge the game based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wombat Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Seems pretty clear that he's talking about the anti-materiel rifle which HAS a pretty steep strength requirement from what we've seen from the videos.Wouldn't be surprised if the sway was caused by that. Thanks. Now I remember that. The recoiling seems to be quite strong especially when the character is much weaker. EDIT : The starting areas are difficult? What game has he played? Honestly, are these guys doing reviews? Seriously?Yea...nowadays, not so many people read manuals. However, designers needs to make them deal with things by themselves in the game world before they are "bored." In fact, I have already spotted a thread complaining about the strength requirement in Beth board. Of course, for us, it's just a joke but for the designers, it's a bad joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 The reviewers are reviewing the game for the average gamer, not the hardcore, so one would expect them to judge the game based on that. I've yet to find an average gamer that tells me that Fallout 3 was too hard at the beginning. Really, you come out of the Vault, go to Megaton, talk to a shopkeeper and already receive an armor upgrade, weapon skills have practically no effect so you can effectively use every weapon in the game, the game is choke full of stimpaks and so on and so on. You don't need to be an hardcore gamer to find the game easy, trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I certainly didn't go to Megaton first, I just wondered around and got mauled by a radbear. Maybe that's what happened to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorstUsernameEver Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I certainly didn't go to Megaton first, I just wondered around and got mauled by a radbear. Maybe that's what happened to him? Yao-guai are VERY far from Megaton. He's lamenting about hard areas at the beginning of the game. To consider that area the beginning well... It's this kind of complaints that brought us mechanics as broken as Oblivion's level scaling. Part of the fun in a RPG is to make the player feel his character getting better. And if you really really find it hard.. well, difficult settings are there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) If you head north fresh out of the Vault, there's a viaduct with some raiders that can quickly kill a freshman player. There's also a barn where a Mr Gutsy can spawn in a random encounter. If you're really unlucky, Talon mercs can spawn there right away too. Head too far south and one reaches Fairfax Ruins, where there are lots of raiders with assault rifles and rocket launchers. So yeah, it can be pretty hard alright for kiddies that came from Oblivion and expected the same type of level scaling. Edited July 2, 2010 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) I once met a deathclaw and a robobrain plus some raiders at the Super Duper Mart on my first quest. It was actually my first encounter. Good thing they were too busy fighting each other getting demolished by the Deathclaw to notice me. Edited July 2, 2010 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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