How has this game done financially?

[Volourn]

"@ Volourn:

The distinction seems to be European reviewers review it as an RPG (which, you know, it is). The American's however thread it as an action game (which, well, it ain't), which gives a very false impression."

 

Nonsense.

[LookAndRoll]

"@ Volourn:

The distinction seems to be European reviewers review it as an RPG (which, you know, it is). The American's however thread it as an action game (which, well, it ain't), which gives a very false impression."

 

Nonsense.

 

No, there is some truth in there.

 

Not all US reviewers tho.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, it obviously isn't ALL Americans do that and ALL Europeans do this, but it's pretty close, about 70-80% even?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Maybe European reviewers just like more niche games?

[Hassat Hunter]

I think Europeans in general like RPG's and Adventures more than our American counterparts...

[MysterD]

Also, STEAM sales aren't included on the NPD right?

 

I saw AP in the TOP sellers list for about a week

 

I don't think ANY digital distribution sales are included in the NPD...

 

I wonder how AP PC sold on D2D, as well...

[Libertarian]

I think Europeans in general like RPG's and Adventures more than our American counterparts...

 

Indeed. I'm an American, but I love RPGs like Alpha Protocol, Divinity II: Ego Draconis, Risen, etc.

 

If I had listened to many American gaming outlets, I'd think they were absolute shovelware.

 

It's truly a shame, but the straight up bromance shooters are more appreciated over here.

[Bos_hybrid]

I think Europeans in general like RPG's and Adventures more than our American counterparts...

 

Indeed. I'm an American, but I love RPGs like Alpha Protocol, Divinity II: Ego Draconis, Risen, etc.

 

It's truly a shame, but the straight up bromance shooters are more appreciated over here.

 

Yep Americans absolutely hate rpgs:

 

Morrowind 89

Oblivion 94

Fallout 3 91

NWN2 82

NWN2: MoTB 82

KoTOR 93

KoTOR II 85

The Witcher 81

Mass Effect 89

Mass Effect 2 94

DA:O 91

 

Also Risen 77, is not a hated score. Another funny thing to note, Alpha Protocol 74 has a better critic average, then user score.

[Flouride]

Another funny thing to note, Alpha Protocol 74 has a better critic average, then user score.

 

Yes, because naturally everyone who loved the game went to metacritic to vote. Oh wait, they didn't.

[blackwolfe]

I think Europeans in general like RPG's and Adventures more than our American counterparts...

 

Indeed. I'm an American, but I love RPGs like Alpha Protocol, Divinity II: Ego Draconis, Risen, etc.

 

It's truly a shame, but the straight up bromance shooters are more appreciated over here.

 

Yep Americans absolutely hate rpgs:

 

Morrowind 89

Oblivion 94

Fallout 3 91

NWN2 82

NWN2: MoTB 82

KoTOR 93

KoTOR II 85

The Witcher 81

Mass Effect 89

Mass Effect 2 94

DA:O 91

 

Also Risen 77, is not a hated score. Another funny thing to note, Alpha Protocol 74 has a better critic average, then user score.

 

Well, they probably played those games expecting them to be rpgs. I somehow doubt they did that with alpha protocol even though Alpha protocol is alot more rpg than mass effect 1 and 2.

[Bos_hybrid]

Another funny thing to note, Alpha Protocol 74 has a better critic average, then user score.

 

Yes, because naturally everyone who loved the game went to metacritic to vote. Oh wait, they didn't.

 

And everone that hated it did? Oh wait, they didn't.

 

Well, they probably played those games expecting them to be rpgs. I somehow doubt they did that with alpha protocol.

 

 

Yes because they had never heard of Obsidian before and don't know what RPGs are.....

Edited June 7, 2010 by Bos_hybrid

[Flouride]

And everone that hated it did? Oh wait, they didn't.

 

Yeah, they didn't either. I just think it's silly to look at user ratings when there's like total 70 of them that have voted.

[Volourn]

"I think Europeans in general like RPG's and Adventures more than our American counterparts..."

 

More nonsense. This is simply more bigotry that has no basis in fact. The idea that Europe like RPGs more than Amerikans based on the seperate opinions on one particular game is silly.

 

It's not like it's a secret that Obsidian is a RPG developer. Amerika reviewers surely know this. They simply like AP less than other RPGs. Big deal. They simply prefer NWN2 to AP. *shrug*

 

It's like saying someone doesn't like action games simply ebcause they gave God of War a lower score. L0L

[WorstUsernameEver]

"I think Europeans in general like RPG's and Adventures more than our American counterparts..."

 

More nonsense. This is simply more bigotry that has no basis in fact. The idea that Europe like RPGs more than Amerikans based on the seperate opinions on one particular game is silly.

 

Actually, he didn't say it just based on AP. Also bigotry =/= cultural differences. Looking at various reviews of various non-AAA games, it's clear that european mags (which could or could not be in line with what european gamers think) like RPGs with 'old concepts' more than american ones.

There's no bigotry in saying that, and it's not certainly meant as a condescending remark.

 

Let's not even touch the adventure genre topic...

[Hassat Hunter]

Yup, not based on AP at all.

Think the Witcher, Divinity 2, Drakensang etc.

 

Germany produces quite a few RPG's (and even if not, like Divinity, Germany gets the game before even the country is was made in, Belgium) and Adventures. Coincidence? I don't think so...

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

RPGs are not niche products. Final Fantasy, Neverwinter Nights, Kotor, Dragon Age, Mass Effect etc. prove otherwise.

Final Fantasy has a massive fan following, but honestly it's still kind of a niche. Most fans of Final Fantasy are fans of Final Fantasy and little else, in my experience, save for other Japanese RPGs. Western RPGs are a whole other market.

 

Neverwinter Nights is a D&D-based RPG. It sold well for the type of game it was (and it came out when PC gaming was still quite strong), but it's hardly a mainstream title.

 

Knights of the Old Republic is Star Wars, and anything Star Wars will sell.

 

Dragon Age had huge amounts of hype and media coverage behind it. Despite releasing on three platforms and having about five years of development, I don't think it sold much more than a million copies. No original IP = hard sell.

 

Mass Effect isn't much of an RPG. Gameplay-wise it's a relatively sloppy shooter, and it features simplified play mechanics. Mass Effect 2 was dumbed down even more to the point where it's basically an action game, and from what I recall it outsold the original Mass Effect almost two to one.

 

So yeah, frankly, RPGs are kind of a niche genre, especially when you compare them to big game franchises like Gears of War, Halo, Call of Duty, Splinter Cell, Super Mario, Zelda. The only time RPGs really see success even vaguely comparable to other genres is when they have huge marketing campaigns, are attached to well-known brands, and are accessible and easy to get into.

 

As for Metacritic: Metacritic weights reviews differently depending on the site. Reviews from popular sites like IGN and Gamespot have more effect on an average than smaller sites, the assumption being that they are "more reputable" - and of course, it's always possible that there's business dealings going on that favour those sites as well. In any case, Metacritic is neither an accurate representation of a game's quality, nor is it an accurate representation of average reviews. Sites like GameRankings tend to be more reputable, but even then there are a lot of problems with only cherry-picking opinions based on how popular those opinions are.

Edited June 7, 2010 by sea

[WorstUsernameEver]

Final Fantasy has a massive fan following, but honestly it's still kind of a niche. Most fans of Final Fantasy are fans of Final Fantasy and little else, in my experience, save for other Japanese RPGs. Western RPGs are a whole other market.

 

You seriously think that a million-seller JRPG like Final Fantasy sells only amongst the die-hard fans? That's a bit naive.

 

P.S. : Just to clarify I didn't want to be rude or sarcastic/****-ish and that's what the smile means.. in before an inevitable angry response

Edited June 7, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

Final Fantasy has a massive fan following, but honestly it's still kind of a niche. Most fans of Final Fantasy are fans of Final Fantasy and little else, in my experience, save for other Japanese RPGs. Western RPGs are a whole other market.

 

You seriously think that a million-seller JRPG like Final Fantasy sells only amongst the die-hard fans? That's a bit naive.

 

P.S. : Just to clarify I didn't want to be rude or sarcastic/****-ish and that's what the smile means.. in before an inevitable angry response

I'm not saying that's the only people who buy the games, no, but from all that I've seen over the years, JRPGs are a specific market, and that market tends to be self-contained. It's large, but also somewhat walled off- you're not going to be selling Final Fantasy to fans of shooters, for example, and most fans of games in the genre also generally aren't too concerned with mainstream Western titles. Final Fantasy is actually a bit of an exception (as is Dragon Quest). While it sells huge numbers, most JRPGs tend to hover between 200,000 and 600,000 on average - not awful by any means, but definitely falling into niche territory.

Edited June 7, 2010 by sea

[WorstUsernameEver]

I'm not saying that's the only people who buy the games, no, but from all that I've seen over the years, JRPGs are a specific market, and that market tends to be self-contained. It's large, but also somewhat walled off- you're not going to be selling Final Fantasy to fans of shooters, for example, and most fans of games in the genre also generally aren't too concerned with mainstream Western titles. Final Fantasy is actually a bit of an exception. While it sells huge numbers, most JRPGs tend to hover between 200,000 and 600,000 on average - not awful by any means, but definitely falling into niche territory.

 

I don't know. One of my friends is bat**** insane when it comes to rpgs, both J and W, and has picked up FFXIII day one, and I've yet to meet a 'JRPG fan' as you describe it, outside of gaming forums. Then again, my personal experience doesn't mean much, but those numbers must come from some people, and trust me, they can't be all JRPG hardcore fans.

 

EDIT : Also, about Dragon Age, I'm pretty sure I saw solid datas that put its sales (a lot of time ago, by the way) at over 2 millions... at least.

Edited June 7, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

EDIT : Also, about Dragon Age, I'm pretty sure I saw solid datas that put its sales (a lot of time ago, by the way) at over 2 millions... at least.

That was a typo, I meant a million or so on the PC, which is probably pretty accurate. I think around two and a half million is accurate for all platforms (assuming about a million on Xbox 360, and maybe half that on PS3), which is still good, but not great, especially considering how long it took to make the game (and also when you consider how hard EA has been pushing for post-release DLC).

 

It's also worth pointing out that VGChartz isn't a reputable source when it comes to game sales figures, since for the most part they are estimated guesses based on NDP figures and market trends. They have been wrong in the past to the point of overestimating sales by 100%.

Edited June 7, 2010 by sea

[Orchomene]

I tend to agree that CRPG sell less than FPS.

In France, very few RPGs have been done, I know only Arx Fatalis which represents well the french games tendency on adventure.

Adventure games are the main game produced in France. Alone in the dark is the one that has had the most success outside of France, I think.

[Libertarian]

FFXIII was GD awful. Burn it with fire!

[Volourn]

"Actually, he didn't say it just based on AP. Also bigotry =/= cultural differences. Looking at various reviews of various non-AAA games, it's clear that european mags (which could or could not be in line with what european gamers think) like RPGs with 'old concepts' more than american ones.

There's no bigotry in saying that, and it's not certainly meant as a condescending remark"

 

It is bigotry. No way around it. And, like the vast majority of bigotry, its due to pure wanton ignorance.

 

Amerikans don't like 'old skool' rpgs? Must explain the success of the GB games. The Wizardrys. The Might & Magics. the Fallouts.The Ultimas. the Bgs.

 

This myth that Europeans are all so smarter because they seems to prefer SLIGHTLY one particular action rpg more than Amerikansis silly talk rooted in flat our bigotry.

 

 

"I think around two and a half million is accurate for all platforms (assuming about a million on Xbox 360, and maybe half that on PS3), which is still good, but not great, especially considering how long it took to make the game (and also when you consider how hard EA has been pushing for post-release DLC)."

 

Silly talk. 3mil copies sold is fantastic. Anymore than that, and DA would be at the level of true mainstream games like Mario, Madden, and the like. BIO is not at that level. Any game that sells 3mil is a blockbuster.

 

 

"most fans of games in the genre also generally aren't too concerned with mainstream Western titles."

 

Any evidence? Speaking in generalities really helps nobodye spicuially with words like 'most' can mean almost anything. (just like almost)

 

 

"Knights of the Old Republic is Star Wars, and anything Star Wars will sell."

 

Nah. No doubt there are SW games that flop or sell middle of the world. SW games, in a way, are a niche.

 

 

"hover between 200,000 and 600,000 on average - not awful by any means, but definitely falling into niche territory."

 

You make it sound like it's the norm for games to sell a mil+. It isn't. A game hit a mil, it's a hit. m Niche is way too broad of a word to mean anything. D&D is a niche afterall, yet the fanbase is huge enough to support games. SW is a niche yet obvious the fanbase is huge.

 

 

"Mass Effect isn't much of an RPG. Gameplay-wise it's a relatively sloppy shooter, and it features simplified play mechanics. Mass Effect 2 was dumbed down even more to the point where it's basically an action game, and from what I recall it outsold the original Mass Effect almost two to one.

"

 

Doubtful. Last accounting was ME2 at just over 3 mil, and ME1 sold about 3mil copies. And, oh, both MEs are Action RPGs.

 

As for DA, it's sold 3mil+ copies as well. To claim it was some sort of 'mild success' is silly... unless you were really expecting it to sell 10mil copies which would be silly since most BIO hits sell in the rnage of 3mil. This is why, while JE was a solid hit, it wasn't a block buster since it sales, IIRC, came in about 1.5-2mil. Still a goopd amount, but definitely not BIO blockbuster numbers.

[WorstUsernameEver]

It is bigotry. No way around it. And, like the vast majority of bigotry, its due to pure wanton ignorance.

 

Amerikans don't like 'old skool' rpgs? Must explain the success of the GB games. The Wizardrys. The Might & Magics. the Fallouts.The Ultimas. the Bgs.

 

This myth that Europeans are all so smarter because they seems to prefer SLIGHTLY one particular action rpg more than Amerikansis silly talk rooted in flat our bigotry.

 

Great. You're basically citing only old games. That kinda proves my point, thanks Vol!

And no, again, no one wanted to prove that americans are dumber than europeans, just that tastes are apparently slightly different, if the reviews are to be believed.

There's nothing inherently wrong in that, and the only one making it sound like that is you.

[Volourn]

"Great. You're basically citing only old games. That kinda proves my point, thanks Vol! "

 

Dragon Age. NWN series. KOTOR series.

 

Probalem with bigots who look down from others is that they are ignorant. They simply don't know what theya re talking about.

 

Just because Amerikans may not like AP as much as Europeans do does not mean theya re dumber or hate RPGs. That's silly talk. Plain, and simple. Espicially, since the ratings aren't that much of a difference.