Mexifornia

[Morgoth]

American kids exhibited their love for their own country by wearing T-shirts with the US flag on it.

 

I see nothing wrong there.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Besides I feel that a clear hierarchy benefits overall stability.

 

Isn't that an important tenant of fascism?

 

Its an important tenant of political thought since the dawn of man, so I don't see where you're going with this.

[Guard Dog]

The editorial from todays Washinton Times:

 

On May 5, five students at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, Calif., were sent home for wearing clothing featuring the American flag. Their offense: trespassing on Mexican heritage during Cinco de Mayo. Administrators called the flag-wearing "incendiary" and likely to cause violence. The school district overrode the decision, and the boys were allowed to return to school. In response yesterday, about 200 students staged a walkout carrying Mexican flags. The question is: Who taught these kids to hate America so much?

 

There should be nothing disrespectful about the U.S. flag to Americans of Mexican descent or to any other immigrant group. Teaching children that their heritage is at odds with their citizenship promotes disunity and divisiveness. While the high school's administrators may have been responding to a real public-safety threat, that threat was the product of their failure to instill a sense of national pride in their students.

 

Identity politics has become such a staple of public life and education in recent decades that incidents like this illustrate the poisonous effects it has on the nation. In the past, immigrant groups would attempt to outdo each other in demonstrating their patriotic attachment to the country that gave them safety, opportunity and freedom. Today, immigrant activist groups think patriotism is at best an inconvenience, at worst a sellout. They have replaced the melting pot with hardening battle lines in a struggle for power.

 

It is odd that Cinco de Mayo has become a focus of conflict. In Mexico, it is a relatively unimportant, mainly local holiday. But in the United States, it has become the de facto Mexican nationalist day, a far cry from its origins in the 1980s as a marketing gimmick by beer importers to sell brews that taste best with lime wedges.

 

This is only the latest instance of Old Glory being forced into the closet. In 2006, a Colorado school seeking to placate Mexican nationalists banned the American flag. After a mass student protest, Mexican flags were banned as well. In 2008, Dos Palos, Calif., high school student Jake Shelly was forced to remove a red, white and blue tie-dyed American-flag T-shirt he had worn to school because he was in violation of a dress code banning "shirts/blouses that promote specific races, cultures, or ethnicities." In 2007, students at Hobbton High School in Sampson County, N.C., were not allowed to wear American-flag-themed clothes on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks because of a general school prohibition on garments featuring flags. The superintendent of schools said that "educators didn't want to be forced to pick and choose which flags should be permissible."

 

Not all flags are created equal. Some flags may be fashion statements, but the American flag is the patriotic symbol of the nation in which we live. This is why the American flag flies outside schools as opposed to, say, Zimbabwe's. Schools should spend less time telling patriotic students not to cause a ruckus simply by wearing the national colors and more time teaching the kids who are offended by the American flag how wrongheaded their views are. This might require teachers and administrators to begin making value judgments and moral choices for the benefit of the children they are charged with educating. The Stars and Stripes should be a proud statement of unity for all.

 

Isn't it odd these kids were forced to leave a school that had an American flag flying out front for wearing A GODDAMNED AMERICAN FLAG!? Remember what I said about the stupid, sick, limp-wristed liberal self hate that is infecting public officials like some kind of vile disease? I was right.

[Monte Carlo]

People keep bringing up St. Patrick's Day and Ireland as a comparison. I don't fully like that because we don't share a gigantic border with Ireland so the immigration was rather minimal in comparison.

 

Excuse me? I suppose you don't get over to the East Coast much, which is fair enough. The Irish-American link is more than tangible. The Irish-American lobby has been a real force in US politics since forever.

 

 

But lets be realistic here, this is about discrimination.

No, it's about behaving like a bit of an arse, which is something entirely different. As a teacher I suspect you have had so much subtle cultural marxist water-boarding over the years you can't see where that one was going.

 

These 5 kids were clearly interested in disrespecting Cinco de Mayo and the Mexican heritage of their classmates.

Just playing devil's advocate, but why must they respect it? And were they clearly looking to disrespect it? Respect has become one of the most misused words of the 21st century. Tolerate this holiday? Yes, absolutely. Respect it. Why?

 

There is nothing patriotic about their act, it's a punk move by punk kids. Given that their parents endorse their behavior, it is clear they have been raised to not respect other cultures. There is nothing redeeming about their actions.

 

Maybe we could build a re-education camp somewhere.

[Guard Dog]

From Time Magazine Columnist Tom Bevan:

 

May 6, 2010

"There Will Be No Apology"

By Tom Bevan

 

Those are the words of the mother of Matt Dariano, one of the five kids at Live Oak High School in the San Francisco Bay Area who were sent home for having the temerity to wear American flag tee shirts on the "Mexican heritage day" of Cinco de Mayo.

 

"There will not be an apology," Mrs. Dariano told the camera crew outside the school. "Matthew is part Hispanic, OK? He's an American. So, no, there will be no apology from any Dariano."

 

Guess who else uttered the exact same phrase last year? James Crowley, the white Cambridge cop who arrested black Harvard professor Louis Gates, Jr. and was singled out in a nationally televised press conference by President Obama for "acting stupidly."

 

On July 23 of last year outside his home, a reporter told Crowley that Gates had asked for an apology from him for his handling of the incident.

 

"There will be no apology," Crowley replied.

 

After a beat, the reporter followed up: "Is this now and ever, 'no apology,?"

 

"Yes," Crowley replied flatly.

The fact is, Americans are increasingly fed up with the racially divisive, politically correct insanity pulsating through the country today. After years of being pressured and browbeaten by the left-wing PC police about what they can say, do, think, and wear, many Americans have had enough. And they're especially furious with being asked to apologize for things that aren't or shouldn't be in the least bit offensive.

 

The idea that high school kids anywhere in America would be called the principal's office - let alone that they would be asked whether they should apologize - for wearing clothes bearing the image of the United States flag, is a perfect case in point.

 

It's the kind of insanity that rankles the sensibilities of millions upon millions of Americans, and has them cheering when someone - whether a Cambridge cop or a Bay Area mother - stands up, refuses to back down, and says, "there will be no apology."

 

It's not enough to be sent home for wearing a shirt with an American flag to an American school, they are now expected to f*****g APOLOGIZE for it???

 

I suddenly feel the need to go buy more guns.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Guard Dog

[Monte Carlo]

^ You see, the irony is I'm one of the most tolerant people you'll ever meet.

 

And the thing that pisses me off is the left-wing abuse of tolerance as part of their kulturkampf on the rest of us. The left lost all the big arguments after the end of the cold war, so they retreated to the foothills of academia and public service to carry on their guerilla warfare from there.

 

And what they can't and won't see is the damage they do. Because to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I hate racism. But when someone occasionally says or does something insensitive could it be down to something else rather than racism? According to the leftie torquemadas of the 21st century the answer is NO. Always.

 

They are causing more racism than they solve.

[Hurlshort]

I've already stated that I think it is incredibly wrong that a group of Mexican Americans would have a problem with other students wearing US regalia on Cinco De Mayo. I've also stated that the administrators did a piss poor job handling the situation, it was a teachable moment, not a disciplinary one.

 

But quite a few folks seem willing to give the 5 boys a free pass here when their intent was clearly suspect.

[Monte Carlo]

^ One of them is part-Hispanic. This doesn't look as simple as it appears, difficult as that might be for the school.

[213374U]

Given that their parents endorse their behavior, it is clear they have been raised to not respect other cultures. There is nothing redeeming about their actions.

Right. Because other cultures are inherently worthy of respect, no matter what. I mean, why waste glucose thinking when we can just apply basic rules of thumb like that and get on with our business.

[HoonDing]

The mistake here was to allow celebrating a foreign holiday that has nothing to do with the US whatsoever. Why isn't this sort of thing celebrated in private? Or do descendants from French colonists celebrate July 14 at American schools too?

 

Be too lenient with immigrants for a few decades and they start to try to change society from within to suit their own needs instead of adapting... in these here parts we have our own nice al-Qaeda cells (first female suicide bomber in Iraq was from Charleroi) & groups striving to introduce the sharia because of years of socialist pampering.

 

In fact this whole incident reminds me of our muslims calling out to natives that dare eat something in front of them during the ramadan period, or calling western women whores for not dressing like the Virgin Mary.

 

EDIT: English is teh hard

Edited May 7, 2010 by virumor

[Calax]

Question: If they had let the kids keep the shirts on and then watched as the 5 got thrashed several times, wouldn't half of you be calling for the administrations blood because they didn't take action?

 

Also I thought we'd established on this board that the school is not governed by the laws and the students aren't free to act as they wish within the law, they still have to follow school rules and the school must act to prevent a potentially violent situation from appearing. The perception was that the 5 were putting on their american flag tee shirts as a provocation, and the administration stepped in to prevent the appearance of the five with black eyes, broken noses, and torn shirts or whatever. Is it overly PC? Probably, but still they had to do something before people started flinging punches at each other.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Nothing wrong with celebrating your heritage, so long as you recognize you're an American citizen first. Unfortunately that no longer always holds, as the editorials pointed out.

[Hurlshort]

^ One of them is part-Hispanic. This doesn't look as simple as it appears, difficult as that might be for the school.

 

It doesn't matter if they were green and tentacled, they were intentionally baiting another group.

[Amentep]

@Amentep:

1. I agree. Regardless, US flags in the US can't or shouldn't be deemed disruptive.

2. You're probably right but you know full well that that's a moot point.

 

1. I think this can only ever be decided by the situation and context. That's why most rules in schools about disruption don't spell out what can and can't be disruptive in totality so as to allow consideration of what is happening at that time. I think that logically we all agree that everyone should have been more than happy to express their pride in Mexican heritage and their pride as US citizens (or either one seperately) and that Flag shouldn't be seen as disruptive. But the reality of the situation is that (a) teens aren't always logical (nor are adults) (b) teens are often looking to provoke confrontations with adults and peers and © we don't know the context of incidents that may have preceeded this (ie there may have been other conflicts between students in the two groups that administrators was trying to prevent returning). There were many subtler ways to have dealt with the issue, and had they been used it'd have been a non issue.

 

2. Really shouldn't be; I think anyone angry enough about the flag being disrespected by the administrators who didn't allow the students to wear it should be upset over the fact the flag wasn't given its proper respect by being worn as a bandana and a t-shirt in the first place.

[Volourn]

"But quite a few folks seem willing to give the 5 boys a free pass here when their intent was clearly suspect."

 

No. I give them a pass because they did NOTHING wrong.

 

 

 

"Also I thought we'd established on this board that the school is not governed by the laws"

 

Yes, they are. Everybody else is. I like to see that school admit to not hiring a teacher ebcausde that teacher is Muslim and see how fast thats chool is slapped with a lawsuit. Nobody is above the law.

 

 

If they had let the kids keep the shirts on and then watched as the 5 got thrashed several times, wouldn't half of you be calling for the administrations blood "because they didn't take action?"

 

Absolutely. It's the school's repsonsibility to stop hooligans from attacking people. But, you punish and stop the hooligans not the potential victims who did NOTHING wrong.

 

Or do you find it acceptable tom kick out black students because racist white students will beat them up if they stay? Come on now. I hope not. You warn the white students that they'll be expelled if they continue to threats and then EXPELL them if they do soemthing to warrant it. Duhg.

 

Why is it acceptable to be bigoted against Amerika in Amerika? It is illogical. It is immoral. It is sick.

 

I don't know of two many countries that will find such a thing acceptable.

 

P.SD. I never even ehard of this particular 'holiday' until this thread. L0LZ

Edited May 7, 2010 by Volourn

[RPGmasterBoo]

Be too lenient with immigrants for a few decades and they start to try to change society from within to suit their own needs instead of adapting... in these here parts we have our own nice al-Qaeda cells (first female suicide bomber in Iraq was from Charleroi) & groups striving to introduce the sharia because of years of socialist pampering.

 

Finally, a european.

 

It doesn't matter if they were green and tentacled, they were intentionally baiting another group.

 

Come on Hurlie, don't be so stubborn. Judge the act itself, not the intention you presume to know, even if you're probably 99.99% right.

 

The act: wearing the US flag on a Mexican holiday. *shrugs* So what?

[Oblarg]

Oh, come on.

 

Even if there intent was to be disruptive, it shouldn't have been an issue. FFS, how can anyone be offended by an american flag in america? This is thoroughly ridiculous.

 

And 200 people marched with mexican flags in response? Honestly, it's not like the two nations are at war. Grow up.

[Hurlshort]

Everyone agrees that it SHOULDN'T be an issue.

 

But the reality is it was.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Everyone agrees that it SHOULDN'T be an issue.

 

But the reality is it was.

 

That bodes well for the future.

[Oblarg]

Everyone agrees that it SHOULDN'T be an issue.

 

But the reality is it was.

 

If the Mexican students started a fight, the Mexican students should have been punished. People need to learn that you need to rise above such petty nonsense.

[Amentep]

Everyone agrees that it SHOULDN'T be an issue.

 

But the reality is it was.

 

If the Mexican students started a fight, the Mexican students should have been punished. People need to learn that you need to rise above such petty nonsense.

 

If the school has reason to believe that a fight is going to start over object "A" and the school doesn't attempt to diffuse the tension over object "A" and a fight starts, then the school, arguably, has not done its part to provide a safe place for its students.

 

Agreed it is petty nonsense, but dealing with kids and parents makes you realize that the modern kid and parent seem to THRIVE on petty nonsense.

[Oblarg]

Everyone agrees that it SHOULDN'T be an issue.

 

But the reality is it was.

 

If the Mexican students started a fight, the Mexican students should have been punished. People need to learn that you need to rise above such petty nonsense.

 

If the school has reason to believe that a fight is going to start over object "A" and the school doesn't attempt to diffuse the tension over object "A" and a fight starts, then the school, arguably, has not done its part to provide a safe place for its students.

 

Agreed it is petty nonsense, but dealing with kids and parents makes you realize that the modern kid and parent seem to THRIVE on petty nonsense.

 

The cause of the fight is the overreaction, not the shirts. The group that is unreasonable is the group that should be inconvenienced to diffuse the situation.

 

The simple fact is, if what they were doing was offensive, it's the fault of those who were offended. No reasonable person would give a **** about an American flag on someone's shirt in America.

[Hurlshort]

I don't mean to sound condescending here, but there does seem to be quite a disconnect between some of the posters here and what happens on a High School campus in California. The reason I called these kids punks is because I know them all too well, I deal with them on a daily basis. There is no great political statement behind their action. They wanted attention, they got it.

[Oblarg]

I don't mean to sound condescending here, but there does seem to be quite a disconnect between some of the posters here and what happens on a High School campus in California. The reason I called these kids punks is because I know them all too well, I deal with them on a daily basis. There is no great political statement behind their action. They wanted attention, they got it.

 

Their intentions were irrelevant.

[Hurlshort]

Their intentions were irrelevant.

 

That is ridiculous.