You've lost a customer

[Humodour]

Third-party DRM on Steam - what were you thinking?

 

If I have to put up with DRM I chose Steam, but you then go and add another DRM scheme on top of it? How is that rational? And while I doubt I'll hear anything since Rorie left, but the last thing I want to hear is "It's up to the publisher" - so have a bloody talk to them about it!

 

This isn't a thread complaining about DRM. We've been there before. This is a customer formally complaining about the stupidity of the decision to include two forms of DRM on your game. I was about to cough up the full $70 you want from us Aussies on a pre-order, so I'm happy to pay your premium even, but this bull**** is just insulting.

 

Reference: http://store.steampowered.com/app/34010/

 

"3rd-party DRM: Uniloc

5 machine activation limit"

Edited May 6, 2010 by Krezack

[The Jackalope]

Damn

[kirottu]

Buy it from a store? Then you have only one DRM to deal with.

[mr insomniac]

Haven't we known for awhile now that AP would use this Uniloc DRM scheme? There's another thread about it here somewhere.

[kirottu]

Third-party DRM on Steam - what were you thinking?

 

If I have to put up with DRM I chose Steam, but you then go and add another DRM scheme on top of it? How is that rational? And while I doubt I'll hear anything since Rorie left, but the last thing I want to hear is "It's up to the publisher" - so have a bloody talk to them about it!

 

This isn't a thread complaining about DRM. We've been there before. This is a customer formally complaining about the stupidity of the decision to include two forms of DRM on your game. I was about to cough up the full $70 you want from us Aussies on a pre-order, so I'm happy to pay your premium even, but this bull**** is just insulting.

 

Reference: http://store.steampowered.com/app/34010/

 

"3rd-party DRM: Uniloc

5 machine activation limit"

 

Yo dawg! We herd u like DRM so we put DRM inside ur DRM so u can DRM while DRMing.

[Tigranes]

Krezack has a point, Steam is already a form of DRM. In fact, Steam is more invasive and foolproof than Uniloc. Why bother?

 

Of course, I'd say if you were happy to login to Steam every time you wanted to play, then it's not like it will really matter whether there is Uniloc or not, is there? I mean, it doesn't really change anything.

[Humodour]

The physical stores use Uniloc, kirottu. I refuse to buy games with activation limits. And Tigranes, that's rubbish - Steam doesn't contain activation limits - it is in no way worse than Uniloc. Regardless of what you think, I choose Steam as the lesser of two evils and it's a completely nonsensical move to double-DRM a game.

 

Haven't we known for awhile now that AP would use this Uniloc DRM scheme? There's another thread about it here somewhere.

 

We thought Steam would NOT contain 3rd party DRM since Steam is DRM itself.

[Humodour]

Look, **** it, I'll buy ME2 instead. This doesn't have to end badly for me.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Firstly you should blame SEGA, the publisher, and not Obsidian as developers rarely have direct control over the DRM used with their products. Secondly, the retail version, while having the same copy-protection, will/should receive a patch that removes it within 18-24 months (something that they have done with other Unicode-secured titles). Plus they've made it so you can deactivate a PC without actually have to run anything on that PC, enabling you do, say, get an activation back from a crashed machine. compared to Steam this is nothing and, while I understand why you're miffed, this that you're actually encouraging them to adopt a more restrictive form of DRM.

 

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I refuse to buy games with activation limits.

 

So you don't buy Steam games?

 

Steam doesn't contain activation limits...

 

Uhhhh... What? When you tie a game to Steam you use up its one and only activation - if that's not an example of "activation limits" then I think we need to reexamine what we are calling "activations" and what we are calling "limits".

 

...it is in no way worse than Uniloc.

 

How so? While Uniloc seems rather flexible and user-friendly, Steam is rather draconian and is sometimes hostile to gamers.

 

...it's a completely nonsensical move to double-DRM a game.

 

That we can agree on.

 

Look, **** it, I'll buy ME2 instead.

 

You could have chosen a better game.

[kirottu]

The physical stores use Uniloc, kirottu. I refuse to buy games with activation limits.

 

You get the activation back when you uninstall so I really don

[Pop]

Edited May 6, 2010 by Gorth
Circumventing language filter

[Busomjack]

For all the outrage over DRM, I have never had an issue with it with any game.

I think PC gamers use DRM mostly as a scapegoat to justify their addiction to piracy.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Look, **** it, I'll buy ME2 instead.

 

You could have chosen a better game.

 

Scratch this, I thought you had written MW2 and not ME2.

[Raithe]

Hm, for some reason I thought they made mention of not using Steams drm in the FAQ about AP's drm.. So even if you buy it from Steam, it only uses the Uniloc drm.. not a double-whammy.

 

Now I'll have to chase the linky down... Not that I'm getting the digital version, but now I'm curious as to how faulty my memory is..

 

Edit:

Here we are :

We also do not use Steamworks - the Steam released version will use Uniloc DRM.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?p=5788545#post5788545

Edited May 6, 2010 by Raithe

[Tigranes]

Well Krezack, Steam is a DRM. I mean, I won't bring my own dislike of Steam into here, it's not relevant, my point is, if you're buying through Steam, you're already logging into it every time you want to play the game, and you have to be online when you first get it.

 

In other words, if there is a double-whammy of Steam and Uniloc, you're already inconvenienced by Steam, not Uniloc. If anything's gonna bother you it'll be Steam rather than Uniloc, until such time as when you have used all 5 activations and need to go to the website to get them back.

 

Again, my point is - yeah, it's stupid, why have both? But it's really a small thing. I really don't see why it's a buy-or-don't-buy deal, unless you think online activation DRMs specifically are super bad and will boycott it whenever possible (but uh, logging into Steam is okay.)

[Sannom]

until such time as when you have used all 5 activations and need to go to the website to get them back.

 

Nah, you don't even need to do that. When you try to activate the game and all five activations are used up, the game takes you through the process of deactivating one of the other installations. It seems all really intuitive.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Sannom

[Humodour]

I refuse to buy games with activation limits.

 

So you don't buy Steam games?

 

Steam doesn't contain activation limits...

 

Uhhhh... What? When you tie a game to Steam you use up its one and only activation - if that's not an example of "activation limits" then I think we need to reexamine what we are calling "activations" and what we are calling "limits".

 

"We" don't, you do. You have a stupid definition of activation. I'll just point out that this 'activation' you talk about is a once-off account activation upon purchase which enables you to play the game (on that account) on as many computers as you want (and increasingly on both Mac and Windows without rebuying the game, and soon to be Linux).

 

By comparison Uniloc allows 5 installs without no benefits to the customer whatsoever.

 

...it is in no way worse than Uniloc.

 

How so? While Uniloc seems rather flexible and user-friendly, Steam is rather draconian and is sometimes hostile to gamers.

 

Yeah no. Steam requires you to login to your account or go offline. If you consider that draconian I don't give a damn - as I said: that's for another thread (one which I already made, go revive it if you wanna push your agenda). Same with anybody else in this thread who dislikes Steam as much as I do crappy schemes like Uniloc. All I want is not to be slapped with a DRM scheme that has limited installs.

 

...it's a completely nonsensical move to double-DRM a game.

 

That we can agree on.

 

Look, **** it, I'll buy ME2 instead.

 

You could have chosen a better game.

 

Yeah, definitely not MW2 lol! Although at least the Steam version of that, like ME2, doesn't have 3rd party DRM. Just no LAN functionality. Arseholes.

 

Well Krezack, Steam is a DRM. I mean, I won't bring my own dislike of Steam into here, it's not relevant, my point is, if you're buying through Steam, you're already logging into it every time you want to play the game, and you have to be online when you first get it.

 

In other words, if there is a double-whammy of Steam and Uniloc, you're already inconvenienced by Steam, not Uniloc. If anything's gonna bother you it'll be Steam rather than Uniloc, until such time as when you have used all 5 activations and need to go to the website to get them back.

 

Again, my point is - yeah, it's stupid, why have both? But it's really a small thing. I really don't see why it's a buy-or-don't-buy deal, unless you think online activation DRMs specifically are super bad and will boycott it whenever possible (but uh, logging into Steam is okay.)

 

For smeg's sake dude, because as I keep pointing out to you people, Steam doesn't limit what computers (or specifically how many) I can install the bloody game on. That will always make it superior to schemes with install (read: activation) limits for me, which ARE CLEARLY more inconvenient than Steam because a) I have to activate rather than just load Steam, choose a game, and click play, and b) if I ever forget to de-activate, or have to reformat, or replace some hardware, I'm screwed, and I can easily see that happening more than 5 times to any game I replay (i.e. most decent RPGs).

 

And Steam does the one thing every other DRM Steam can't: it's a DRM scheme which adds value and is hassle-free. Steam is a single repository of all my games (and increasingly save-games via Steam Cloud) which I can access from any computer (and increasingly from any OS via Steam Play). And the vast majority of such games were purchased at steeply discounted prices in American dollars which further justifies the (to me unobtrusive) DRM that is Steam. Whether you feel that way about Steam or not, I do, and subverting Steam in order to push your own 3rd party DRM as Raithe seems to indicate is happening is a pain in the ass for the customer.

 

I have never once argued that Steam is for everyone, so don't go telling me Steam isn't for me.

 

Wish I hadn't made the damn thread. I've already voted with my wallet.

 

For all the outrage over DRM, I have never had an issue with it with any game.

I think PC gamers use DRM mostly as a scapegoat to justify their addiction to piracy.

 

Yes because I'd make this thread solely to justify going out and illegally downloading the game. Our hatred of DRM has got nothing at all to do with civil liberties. Thank you for your input. I value it oh so very much.

[WorstUsernameEver]

if I ever forget to de-activate, or have to reformat, or replace some hardware, I'm screwed, and I can easily see that happening more than 5 times to any game I replay (i.e. most decent RPGs).

.

 

Not that I think it'll change your mind but I've to point out that no, if you format or replace hardware you're not screwed, since you can de-activate an installation from Uniloc's website.

They also promised to patch the DRM out, so assuming they keep their promise, the only advice I can give you is buying it after they do.

Sucks, I know, but the DRM scheme has been already decided, the only thing I can see them doing is patching it sooner if they see it is affecting sales.

[Sannom]

@ Krezack :

 

I must say that I really don't understand your problem with AP's DRM scheme if you don't have a problem with Steam

 

Either with Steam or Uniloc, you still need to activate the game online after you install it. Uniloc only has the minor setback that if your activation count is full, you need to deactivate one, and like I said, the game takes you through it, and it's easy to do. But it has the advantage that you can lend the game to friends (I have become a Steam-hater after I was unable to play Half-Life 2 because I lent it to a friend before playing it) and that you can resell it.

[Purkake]

Well, someone just shot themselves in the foot.

 

On the plus side we might get an awesome ****storm like on the 2K forums when Bioshock first came out...

[Tigranes]

b) if I ever forget to de-activate, or have to reformat, or replace some hardware, I'm screwed,

 

Wrong, did you read up on the DRM before making your decision? If your computer explodes with an activated install of AP you can still deactivate it.

 

I have never once argued that Steam is for everyone, so don't go telling me Steam isn't for me.

 

I didn't. This has nothing to do with my own dislike of Steam. This has nothing to do with your preference for Steam. I am not stepping on this to say "LOOK STEAM SUCKS".

 

Seriously, just look at the facts. What does the double-DRM do to your experience? (a) it adds an extra 3-minute activation step, an inconvenience. (b) if you ever use all 5, you have to take a 3-minute deactivation step. That's it. Now, if that is enough for you to not buy AP, or, if you just won't buy anything with any form of online activation on it, fair enough, your call.

 

But right now it just sounds like you're making a big deal and a reactionary decision without bothering to learn what exactly the DRM does... then call other people morons when they weren't even accusing you of piracy. Come on man, you're not that unreasonable.

[Oner]

Who here has 5 PCs anyway?

[Raithe]

And it's not a double DRM. If you read through the sega thread faq on Alpha Protocol's drm... they only use Steam to download it.. they don't use Steam's drm .. They only use the Uniloc drm...

 

Or am I just totally crazily reading "we do not use Steamworks" as not using Steam drm?

 

 

Beyond that, how many people will really install it on 5 seperate computers concurrently? And Uniloc has a major ease of deactivating when you uninstall, or by a simple log in on the web and deactive remotely...

[Purkake]

Ooh, maybe we'll have a major Obsidian schism now. The AP Defense Force and the Forsaken?

 

Also, perhaps we can play "spot that hypocrisy" by going through the various(and bloody) DRM threads?