Deus Ex 3

[cronicler]

Need mor coffee...

Sorry for the confusion, I think I skipped a pharagraph

 

Anyway, I know it is too early to tell but IW tried this too and they ended up cutting too much and making the system bland and boring. Skils are the repesentitive of basic stats/rpg computations to the player while the augs are the superpowers if you will.

 

They might make a decent combined system but I fear they will (again) have too little of both sides like IW...

[Purkake]

Sure, my point is that they can screw it up by having both and make it work by only having one. I'd rather wait and see than worry about that.

 

I'm still super skeptical about the game, but mostly because of the story/writing parts, it's AAA enough to have decent gameplay one way or another.

[cronicler]

Bwahahahahaa yes that is true.

Can you imagine anyone having the cojones to put the fema / Statue of Liberty storyline in a modern game?

I really hate Politically Correctness. (And no, please don't confuse being a decent human and being a politically correct lapdog)

Edited June 21, 2010 by cronicler

[Purkake]

Not exactly what i was getting at, a billion games have had a terrorist/evil government storyline before and after Deus Ex 1.

[Raithe]

We know it's going to involve mass conspiracy storylines.. there's going to be a couple of twists thrown in there somewhere.. Apart from that.. we're all still stuck in the "wait and see" seats.

 

As for the game system.. apart from that short demo at E3 which you can't really see much of.. again..too little information to really justify love or horror about it. <shrugs>

[Purkake]

I'm perfectly happy in my wait and see seat.

 

 

Using my psychic precognition, I predict that DX3 will have good gameplay and art style, but a lackluster story riddled with cliches and oversimplified allusions to various Greek myths. The "true fans" will complain no matter what happens.

 

Edited June 22, 2010 by Purkake

[cronicler]

I think no modern AAA title developer can create a better story and world than old DX (can't gamble much, publisher pressure, anti-game/anti-adult/"pc" pressure and so on).

 

Still a decent story with good gameplay would be nice. Who knows maybe it would be moddable...

[Purkake]

It's multiplatform, so chances are that it won't. The days of games being "fixed" by mods are pretty much over. You either get games specifically made to be modded or games that are not worth the trouble.

 

I think the story problem is mostly caused by the wide target audience and the publisher, also possible the development culture these days.

[Thorton_AP]

Am I the only one that felt the world was already exceptionally politically correct when Deus Ex came out?

[Purkake]

Choo choo, all aboard the off-topic train!

[Thorton_AP]

Not really.

 

I find the idea that Deus Ex 3's story can't be as good because we're too politically correct to be incorrect.

[Purkake]

I agree.

 

Also, you don't need politically sensitive issues to have a good story.

[cronicler]

Sure it isn't enough to make it a bland and cliche story alone but coupled with the usual "lets not take unnecessary risks" aproach , "stay within the modern(?) acceptance of violence", "cardboard 2-d characters (out of a 24 seasion)" and other usual cliches like "mindless sex sells" I think they manage to smother any spark of creativity.

 

Also let's not forget the game for maximum playerbase / lowest common denominator too

[Purkake]

Every game that wants to sell goes for the maximum playerbase, it's simple economics.

 

I don't think that adding politically sensitive issues to a bland and cliche story would make it any less bland and cliche.

 

You can have a good story and still appeal to the mainstream, I don't know why most developers don't realize that. Maybe it's one part the current development culture and one part not having any good writers?

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

... so we've established Deus Ex 3 had a bland and clich

[Thorton_AP]

Sure it isn't enough to make it a bland and cliche story alone but coupled with the usual "lets not take unnecessary risks" aproach , "stay within the modern(?) acceptance of violence", "cardboard 2-d characters (out of a 24 seasion)" and other usual cliches like "mindless sex sells" I think they manage to smother any spark of creativity.

 

Outside of perhaps "unnecessary risks" (and I'd debate that, given games like System Shock 2 had already tried stuff like this), does Deus Ex really do anything different here?

 

I mean, it sounds like DX3 will probably push the envelope in terms of violent imagery, if descriptions of the lethal takedowns are accurate. But Deus Ex isn't really littered with deep characters.

[Slowtrain]

You can expand either system to account for both.

 

 

I agree with this, and its the key point.

 

Back in the days of Invisible War we were told exactly that, that the skill system of DX would be folded into a complex aug system that would more than make up for the loss of skills. AT the time, being young and impessionable and naive as I was, I believed them. Ooops. Bad move on my part. I see no reason why I shoudl believe exatlcy the same rhetoric, when the gamin climate is even less conducive to making interesting games than it was when IW was in development.

 

One of the things that made DX interesting was the interplay between augs, skills, gear and mods as you built your version of JC Denton. There were an almost infinite number of choice son how to do it.. In IW, there was no interplay with anything. None. Even the ammo was all the freaking same. It was nightmare of streamlininng and uber-simplification to the point of utter boredom.

 

If DX3 REALLY has a complex aug system then yes, it could make up for the loss of skills. If it were up to me though, I'd keep the skills and the augs because we know it works.

[Purkake]

... so we've established Deus Ex 3 had a bland and clich

[Oner]

Soo..what's the problem with DX's shooting mechanics exactly?

 

Some people did not like the fact the RPG stats played into your aiming skill. No matter how good YOUR (players) aiming was the skill points played a part into your hitting. Similar to the whining about bloodlines firearms skill/shooting. For example if you only have 1 skill point in the rifle skill and was using a sniper rifle the rifle would randomly sway left/right and up/down as you aimed even if you were not moving, also you would reload slow. More points into the skill the sway became less and less and your reload speed increased for every point.

 

I personally liked the system. If one wants to play a FPS then go play modern warfare or call of duty where the game mimics YOUR skill. In a CRPG you ROLE PLAYING a character so of course the RPG stats should and do play a part in the characters ability ingame. CoD isn't claiming to be a CRPG, DE is however.

I see people were dim back in 2000 too. Edited June 22, 2010 by Oner

[Nepenthe]

... so we've established Deus Ex 3 had a bland and clich

[TheHarlequin]

... so we've established Deus Ex 3 had a bland and clich

[TheAssassin]

I'm kinda hopeful that it won't have a half-arse storyline. Also I'm very interested in the theme. Really catches my eyes.

[cronicler]

Thank you for your confidence. True I am at best an amateur writer with only a few long campaigns in my resume but I do read.

 

Being cliche doesn't mean automatically being bad (at least not always, look at Dresden Files for example) but can you seriously argue that current generation of games have good stories? Nearly all of them are recycled to death materials or copy pasta sequels.

 

Anyway back to topic; as Slowtrain mentioned above, most of the promises and dev. explanations really remind me of IW. (I agree that) I am biased but it doesn't change the fact that besides good graphics (which IW didn't even have) we have nothing substential but pr talk.

[Nepenthe]

Being cliche doesn't mean automatically being bad (at least not always, look at Dresden Files for example) but can you seriously argue that current generation of games have good stories? Nearly all of them are recycled to death materials or copy pasta sequels.

 

Indeed, the story in games has fallen far from the days of Pacman, Bubble Bobble, Operation Wolf, Arctic Fox and Death Track.

 

I can't think of any game, past or current, that would meet the "standards" a well-written game would seem to require to gain the "forum-poster stamp of approval".

 

My point is that "badly written" is basiclly the most subjective of "objective" criticisms, and as such is always the easiest to apply.

[Wombat]

Back in the days of Invisible War we were told exactly that, that the skill system of DX would be folded into a complex aug system that would more than make up for the loss of skills. AT the time, being young and impessionable and naive as I was, I believed them. Ooops. Bad move on my part. I see no reason why I shoudl believe exatlcy the same rhetoric, when the gamin climate is even less conducive to making interesting games than it was when IW was in development.

Then, I understand but I think it's your problem. I read a reasonable number of reviews from various sources and bought DX:IW with appropriate expectations. Being hyped is one and checking out what the designer is saying is quite another. In fact, I couldn't but notice that designers often try to cover up what they couldn't do. Oddly, I find designers who frequent boards tend to be honest.

 

BTW, speaking of naivety, the same thing goes to the designers, I think. Fans/players tend to like to know everything about their games but, if they are decent folk at all, I don't think they like to make the position of the designers difficult. So, if any of the designers here reading this, please be silent when we asked such questions rather than trying to explain it or cover it up. As the industry expands, designer-player communication may become less pastoral but I think there must always be better ways.