I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite thread on Obsidian

[Pidesco]

Continue your Mass Effect 2 discussions, here.

[Hurlshort]

Just beat it, I like the option to keep going as I didn't finish many of the N7 missions. Although I wonder how the import will be handled, hopefully those missions will carry over in the third game.

[Volourn]

New thread. Old stuff.

 

ME2 is a very good game hampered by dumbed down combat and character system. It has made biotics nearly worthless. I pretty much just sat there and shot the gun. Also, due to the fact you will die within seconds of being in the open (barring facing melee enemies like husks), there is only real viable strategy and that is to play peek and boo. Combat can be fun (and smore than a few encounters are set up very wel) but the combat itself is blaisse.

 

Taking away non combat talents are also dumb. Now, everybody is a hacker, and dialogue specialist. It would make all those dialogue chocies that are dependent on your paragon/renegade status more valuable if it wasn't automatic for you have the skill. I laugh when i hear someonen complaining they didn't meet the requirement of x or y choice because their metere wans't high enough? That's nuts. Only way that could be is you played a psycho who randomly went back and forth between forth.

 

Omni gel was ruined as well. It would have been handy to be allowed to use it to bypass the various mini games. I enjoyed them for what theyw ere but the option should be there espicially if you fail. You should have been a lllowed to sell accements mined elements - surely someone would buy them. A real inventory would have been nice. Instead of just hiding to regain health you should have to use omni/medi gel to heal. Stupid shooters dumbing down our rpg.

 

jack should go die in the fire and Z can join her (thoguh their loyalty quests were solidly done).

 

I do love the ability to upgrade the ship and how it actually matters. They should have kept our ME1 vehicle and allowed us to do the same. I loved the mako. Mako wasnot a problem. All the bumpy samey worlds were. Mako itself was fine and with a few twinks (smoother handling and the like) and it could of been better. You shouldn't blindly cut things that weren't perfect but improve them by fixing the flaws. I liked the world mining, and I love the new way to space travel.

 

Instead of cutting talents, they should have been ADDING talents. Now, you got 3 different ammo ones when you really only need one. Tsk, tsk.

 

Story is alright, but they should have given the collectors more life and personalityt. We know they can communicate since they do so in leads up to ME2. Also, the collector general showed more life in the last 3 seconds of the game tehn they did the reast of it. Tsk, tsk. Perhaps, a small collector faction that had somehow broken free of control and somehow communicated that to you. Anything. I love the diea of collectors and such and they were most liekly the coolest enemies in the game, but come on now.

 

The majority of the joinables were awesome. Best group of joinables ever. Even the ones I great dislike were, for teh most part, at least decentleyw ritten. Also, bests et up for an end game ever since your actions throughout the game matter and not just one last second decision or one pre set one. The chocie of who and how many to recruit, whetehr or not to do loyalty quests, how to do them (and the fact you can even FAIL a few of them!), the two dueling pairs which could cost you loyalty, ship upgrades, individual character upgrades, chocies on how to/and when to approach the final suicide mission. All of this matters. That's C&C at its best. The fact you cna get friendly with potential romances and still be able to talk with them as friends.

 

Great opening, great middle (Collector ship as best atmosphere ever for tha W!), great ending. If it wasn't for the dumbed down combat/character system, this would easily be BIO's best game. tsk, tsk.

[Purkake]

Volourn, you truly make an art out of repeating yourself, A+

[Volourn]

Believe me, I'm not the only one with that skill posting on Obsidian. Not even close.

[Purkake]

That's true enough, but why not be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem?

[Volourn]

I don't think it's a problem?

 

It's the same reason why I don't harp on violence in games causing kiddies to be come mass murderers.. 'cause I don't think it's a problem.

 

*shrug*

 

Now.. people who post in topics but don't discuss the topic could also be considered a problem...

Edited February 14, 2010 by Volourn

[Purkake]

Reposting what is essential the same thing each time isn't any closer to "discussing the topic", sorry.

 

I'm pretty sure that everyone who has been in any of the ME2 threads is well aware of your opinion by now.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Purkake

[Volourn]

So.. you plan to discuss ME2 at all.. or do you want to make a thread about me? Either way you are trolling. btw, I said trolling not flaming.

 

 

"Reposting essential the same thing each time isn't any closer to "discussing the topic", sorry."

 

This is a ME2 thread. My first post was ALL about ME2. Damn straight i was discussing ME2. *shrug*

[Krookie]

So.. you plan to discuss ME2 at all.. or do you want to make a thread about me? Either way you are trolling. btw, I said trolling not flaming.

 

 

"Reposting essential the same thing each time isn't any closer to "discussing the topic", sorry."

 

This is a ME2 thread. My first post was ALL about ME2. Damn straight i was discussing ME2. *shrug*

 

cry more about being trolled. thats one of things you repeat too!

 

 

anway, mass effect 2 > mass effect 1. that's all that matters. the 1st was a good game, the second is a great one. there is a difference between "dumbed down" and trimming off the stuff that isn't needed (like 20 weapons of the same kind in your inventory).

[Purkake]

@Volo: No you were just reposting your well-known opinion from the last thread without adding anything new. Discussion actually involves multiple participants.

 

As for ME2, I think the combat system is a great improvement over ME1, but could use some more innovative abilities to change up the tactical situation instead of just things that do damage or protect you. Oh and the thermal clips were completely unnecessary, if you want the player to actually move around instead of sniping everyone from cover, use better level design and AI.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Purkake

[Nepenthe]

Just beat it, I like the option to keep going as I didn't finish many of the N7 missions. Although I wonder how the import will be handled, hopefully those missions will carry over in the third game.

 

The Official Word is that any post-game-completion save game can be used as an import. So no special "end-game" saves, just a magic flag that gets ticked off when the suicide mission is complete.

 

Makes me wonder what they have set up in the way of expansions before the launch of ME3.

 

Also, pretty much agree with Purkake on the improvements and deficiencies in combat. To the point that I think anybody who claims me1 combat was better or smarter is smoking crack or freebasing on nostalgia - or just confused and rolls having a bazillion cosmetically different assault rifles into "combat".

Edited February 14, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Purkake]

I totally forgot about the weapons, I think they went from way too many to way too few. If you're going to have three different weapons in each category, please make sure that they are at least really unique.

 

I may be going a dark road here, but maybe having customizable addons to weapons is better than "+20% damage" and whatnot? Make it so that you can't have all the upgrades and actually have to choose them based on your playstyle. This will add tons of depth to the system.

 

Then you'll have to do something about the Biotics and Tech stuff as well, but I don't have a clue about that.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Purkake

[Volourn]

"To the point that I think anybody who claims me1 combat was better or smarter is smoking crack or freebasing on nostalgia - or just confused and rolls having a bazillion cosmetically different assault rifles into "combat". "

 

Between the fact that combat in ME2 simply comes down to playing peek a boo and shooting while biotics are weak, and useless compared to gun power, I think the people who believe ME2 combat is anything BUT dumbdowned are fooling themselves.

[Purkake]

As if ME1's combat wasn't peak-a-boo or most cover-based shooters for that matter.

 

Some blindfire and supression would be nice, though.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Purkake

[Volourn]

"As if ME1's combat wasn't peak-a-boo or most cover-based shooters for that matter."

 

Nowhere near the level of ME2. ME1 enemies could actually miss. they simply don't in ME2 since they all use auto hit guns.

 

I remember plenty of times in ME1 where you can go guns a blazing while dodging bullets if you get lucky and move quick enough since your shields cna last more than 1.2 seconds. Thrown in combat with the mako which was a blast espicially when you could see the coolness of running over enemies to mix things up. In ME2, you just can't do that. Your shields go down very quick. After 3 seconds you had no chocie to hide. Only exceptions are enemies like husks but that makes sense since they don't have super guns. Not to mention biotics were hella a lot more useful and cooler in ME1.

 

Getting shot up in ME2? hide for a fews econds and all is well. Getting shot up in ME1, better have medi gel ready and better have some skill in it to get the most use of it.

 

Don't get me wrong, ME2 did have some fun battles; but it is dumbed down. When the only way to fight is to play peek a boo, you are losing a lot.

[Purkake]

Being in cover most of the time makes more sense to me.

 

The problem was that, even though Bioware improved their level design and variety considerably, the battles were still pretty static. They need to look at games like Uncharted 2 and make each big battle a huge set piece with its own unique twist(more than "shoot the generators, then the boss"). Movable/destructible cover, enemies with unique abilities that force you to change your tactics, dynamic battlefields(like the train level in UC2), etc.

 

For example, the shield drain radiation on the Tali recruiting mission was an awesome idea, but completely underutilized so it ended up being an annoyance more than anything else.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Purkake

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I totally forgot about the weapons, I think they went from way too many to way too few. If you're going to have three different weapons in each category, please make sure that they are at least really unique.

 

I may be going a dark road here, but maybe having customizable addons to weapons is better than "+20% damage" and whatnot? Make it so that you can't have all the upgrades and actually have to choose them based on your playstyle. This will add tons of depth to the system.

 

Then you'll have to do something about the Biotics and Tech stuff as well, but I don't have a clue about that.

Agreed. It's too easy to upgrade every weapon, there's not much choice involved. IMO, they should just copy Deus Ex's weapon upgrades.

 

As for Biotics and Tech... Increased flame damage? Longer stun? You could get pretty creative with these, since these are pretty much spells.

Edited February 14, 2010 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY

[Guest Slinky]

I join the club of gentlemen who have finished ME2. I've been reading the two last ME2 topics and it looks like many of the good and bad stuff has been brought up enough already, so I won't go there. Instead I feel the need to rant about something that hasn't been talked yet.

 

Ladies and getlemen, welcome to DD's "Where the heck is Bioware's quads?!"

 

And by missing quads, I specifically mean Cerberus and the squad members. Could somebody explain to me why the Cerberus yeoman is a shrink, who wants to hug Garrus until everything is alright again? Why the Cerberus crew members are easy going likeable sort? Boooriiinggg. I could just as well fly around with Alliance crew members.

 

And why the badass, ultra dangerous squad members couldn't scare even a kid? Jack, the mega biotic acts more like angry teenager than someone who should be locked away forever. Thane, the most dangerous assassin in the galaxy is like that monkey from the "hitman monkey gets no pleasure from his work" funny picture. Grunt, the perfect krogan is just a another krogan.

 

I don't know about you, but I would like ME2 a lot more if members of Cerberus would be rasist space-nazi bastards who would show respect to you only if you would agree with their ways. And if even some of the squad members would really be dangerous and act in ways that makes you wonder would it be better for the mission if you just shot them, before they do something wacky?

 

Just think about the possibilites! The atmosphere that would be created from the hostile crew around you, trying to keep things from falling apart before you even have the change to go offensive..

 

[/rant]

 

Anyway, I would say that ME2 is the best game from Bio since BG2. Has some problems that keep it from being a great game instead of "just" a good game, but overall I enjoyed it much more than I expected. Good show Bio! And give my dearest thanks to the person who is responsible for the planet scanning mini-game..

[Purkake]

@Will: I think the split at the last skill level was a good start. Maybe have ~3 paths for each of the skills or some kind of mix and match system? So you could upgrade the radius/damage/duration/whatever separately and have unique bonuses for focusing on a path. This way you could have one super-charged ability or a choice of multiple specialized ones.

 

As for Thane, the most dangerous assassin in the galaxy, he has the weakest excuse ever for being a good guy, "I don't kill people, I let my evil drell alter ego take over and do all the dirty work". Bioware, I am disappoint.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Purkake

[Maria Caliban]

I totally forgot about the weapons, I think they went from way too many to way too few. If you're going to have three different weapons in each category, please make sure that they are at least really unique.

 

BioShock 2 handled this surprisingly well. Each weapon feels fairly unique.

 

Whatever Mass Effect 2's flaws when it comes to combat, I find it far more entertaining and interesting than ME 1 was. I use cover all the time. Maybe too much, but in ME 1, I only used cover when I fought the rocket drones on the moon and when I fought the colossus on whatever planet you rescue Liara on. After my soldier got immunity and some of the better armors, I'd fight enemies by running right at them and taking them down one by one as they all shot at me.

 

ME2

Edited February 14, 2010 by Maria Caliban

[Purkake]

If Bioshock 2's weapons were like Bioshock 1's, then I agree. But then again, most FPSs manage to get that right.

 

I really don't know what ME2 was trying to do with it's weapon system, it feels like they just stopped halfway though.

[Guest Slinky]

If you listen to them, most of them ARE Alliance crew members.

 

I don't consider this 'quadless.' TIM wants Shepard to think well of Cerberus. He's not going to stock the ship with the scientists that worked at Acuze, is he? He's going to stick in nice Allience types who think Cerberus is just a pro-human orginization that gets the job done. This is no different than creating a plush 'Captain's Loft' for Shepard.

I came to the same conclusion, but that doesn't stop it from being boring.. This is one of the rare times I would put fun over logic, I can't help but think it as lost opportunity.

[Gromnir]

am pretty sure that vol is one o' the only folks that thinks me2 utilizes a dumbed down version o' me1 combat. that being said, peek-a-boo combat does make many o' the me2 powers somewhat pointless. being out of cover gets you dead in 3 seconds or less... having shields, barriers or fortification get you an extra 1.5 seconds? also, while we personally thought the rock-paper-scissors shtick were a step forward for me2, we can sees how some folks were bothered. me2 were pushing the franchise increasingly towards the shooter end o' the rpg-shooter continuum we saw birthed in me1. am personally not a fan o' shooters, so we can understand the complaints 'bout me2 combat.

 

the character generation and development options, while hardly dumb, is limited. only genuine important choices is class and bonus power... and class choice happens at level 1. no matter how many times we play an me2 infiltrator our character will has largely the same powhaz and will play exact the same. some rpg rules systems does make choice o' class the most important decision, but rare does they make class choice the only important choice... 29 subsequent levels o' illusory or pointless choices. is bad design... for an rpg.

 

story...

 

me1 were space opera. me2 were magnificent seven/seven samurai.... with additional loyalty quests and n7 missions. honestly, we likes westerns as 'posed to space opera, but bio didn't build me2 the way we would expect from a western. bioware didn't thinks they needed a compelling villain in me2. the collectors were enigmatic puppets o' the even more remote and enigmatic reapers. were maybe 'sposed to be spooky, kinda likes system shock 2? dunno. didn't ever feels genuine scary. regardless, is tough to feels emotional build-up if you ain't gotta a target for the fear or anger or anxiety or... whatever. me2 climax were anti-climax, due in large part to the absence o' a compelling villain. also, if the magnificent 7 characters were as angsty and broken as the normandy crew, we woulda' been rooting for the bandits to win. me2 went too hard for Pathos. also, am thinking that story were focused too much on recruitment and loyalty, and not enough critical path. collectors felt almost like an afterthought. perhaps the me2 writers coulda' worked in some collector aspect into many/most/all of the loyalty missions... woulda' made the link to collectors stronger and woulda' strengthened story as a whole as seemingly unrelated story aspects woulda' been shown to have connections. me2 story weren't bad, but a western (kurosawa modeled seven samurai on american westerns) needs intriguing villains and compelling heroes. me2 were missing the villains, and the heroes were more like a collection o' guests for dr. phil than seven samurai.

 

more weapons. more armour. lack o' customization o' character were exacerbated by lack o' ability to customize gear. not need wacky extreme o' me1 with a bazillion varieties o' ammo and armour upgrades, but we were genuine disappointed by lack o' customization options for gear. again, our infiltrator shepard will probable look much the same as enoch's or numbers... though not vol's... 'cause vol is nutty.

 

me2 got rid of mako (huzzah!) and replaced with planet scan (damn!) planet scan... sucks. takes approx five minutes to do a single planet scan on xbox. takes 5-10 minutes to do a typical n7 mission. spent more time doing planet scans than optional planet side missions? that is so wrong.

 

is a fun game that we will play again... probable a few times.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Purkake]

Another thing that annoyed me was turning the different ammo types into skills, that was probably the worst thing they could have done with them. The distribution between the classes was pretty random and switching them put all the other abilities on cooldown, which made me just stick with one. Spending skill points on them was pretty much a waste as well, at least as an infiltrator.

 

They really need to think of something different for ME3.