Dragon Age discussion

[Stephen Amber]

Yea, vampiric feast would wipe out pretty much everything... even got the demi-lich Rammaq with it. Other than that, and a few other choice spells, most of time is spent watching the "pack mule" Okku roll over everything... Same with Hotu. You give the fallen paladin/blackguard Aribeth a storm giant belt and +10 sword of death and she cuts through everything. Epic play sucks.

 

BG2 post Jon Irenicus is anti-climatic. That and the never ending series of over the top epic boss encounters of ToB just burned me out.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I suppose it is if you expected a full blown sequel. The fact that the game considers itself only chapter 7 (IIRC) of the BGII storyline somewhat remedies the situation.

 

Every villain and setup immediately after Irenicus would inevitably end up feeling underwhelming. Especially in the limited space of an expansion.

Edited February 16, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Junai]

I've tried to digest DA, but sometimes I feel more immersed - or at least involved - playing the IE games. IE provides a better strategic overview and immediate feedback reg. party-control. NWN is decent, but I find DA and NWN2 to be slow.

 

For me a good CRPG-engine should give the player total control. Better if they trade some graphics-performance for improved animations combined with better (quicker) feedback. A steady overview cam with a good zoom-out which you don't have to adjust all the time. Less (if any) flashy (spell-)effects which hinder or confuse immersion, and optional avatar marker-circles. Just the most token of scripts. A well-drawn and spacious inventory which makes sense.

 

If they could just strip it all down to a bare minimum, and drop me right in the middle of big city, with six chars (which I can choose to roll up), and make it intuitive enough so I can figure it all out by myself. No forced companions and long drawn out tedious railroading intros, or cutscenes which go on forever.

 

How about some art? Remember the tile-mosaic -like picture of Irenicus as you finish SoA chap.1? Nothing fancy, but it made a difference. Cutscene-chars in DA and NWN2 just can't convey what a good painted picture and a decent storyteller-voice can. Cutscenes with generic and sexless avatars chatting with incoherent lip/eye/hand movements just gives me the creeps, and I wish they'd keep it to a minimum.

 

Player-control, immersion, instant feedback combined with art, taste and mature story (not zombie-grinding) will do the trick.

That's not too much to ask.. is it?

 

WoT will have all that, and more.. *cough*..

 

J.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Why do fighter characters stop attacking an enemy if you turn their AI off? I give Sten an attack order, but if the enemy changes position he just stands in place? What gives?

[RPGmasterBoo]

How about some art? Remember the tile-mosaic -like picture of Irenicus as you finish SoA chap.1? Nothing fancy, but it made a difference. Cutscene-chars in DA and NWN2 just can't convey what a good painted picture and a decent storyteller-voice can. Cutscenes with generic and sexless avatars chatting with incoherent lip/eye/hand movements just gives me the creeps, and I wish they'd keep it to a minimum.

 

I agree with you - but no one else seems to think so. 3D everywhere is the order of the day. Even though AAA titles with superlative graphics still feature characters who look like potato figures and appear jarring and ugly when six months later a new "hit" arrives.

 

I remember reviewers praising the "great graphics" of Neverwinter Nights - a game comprised of ugly, blocky objects and drab textures. It wasn't pretty to look at when it was new, now its just horrendous. (not to mention that Morrowind came out at the same time).

[Stephen Amber]

I remember criticisms of NWN1 graphics even when it was new. Think Dungeon Siege came out around the same time and looked better.

 

The big DLA castle tile-set added in the final patch redeems the game somewhat in that respect.

[Volourn]

"I remember criticisms of NWN1 graphics even when it was new."

 

And, heck of a lot of praise. The same people who bashed NWN as a whole bashed its graphics on principal alone. I think NWN's graphics are underrated, and are vastly sueprior to the IE games, andn just as good if not better than DS. Then again, I played DS for like an hour so didn' get to see the entirety of their graphical parts.

 

 

"Why do fighter characters stop attacking an enemy if you turn their AI off? I give Sten an attack order, but if the enemy changes position he just stands in place? What gives?"

 

You shut off the AI, mayhaps. No AI means you control him 100%. That said, I never had any real problems with non controlled characters attacking (and using abilities). *shrug* But, you know, if you shut off the AI of course the AI won't do anything.

[cronicler]

Boo: it's probably the hold position order. When you disable ai and hold position, the chars basically become idiot savants. no response to being attacked, no movement nothing. you either have to baby sit it or just configure its ai and leave it.

 

Just being able to issue hold position to specific chars (ie, mages and archers) would have made the whole combat much more better.

[Hurlshort]

NWN was definitely criticized for the graphics, it also came out the same time as Morrowind. Oddly enough, over the next year or so modders managed to do some amazing things with the NWN engine, and really helped it reach its full potential.

 

Basically it seemed like Bioware just didn't fully use the potential of the engine in their original campaign. The expansions and the user mods really did that. They get the credit for making such a great engine and toolset.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Boo: it's probably the hold position order. When you disable ai and hold position, the chars basically become idiot savants. no response to being attacked, no movement nothing. you either have to baby sit it or just configure its ai and leave it.

 

Just being able to issue hold position to specific chars (ie, mages and archers) would have made the whole combat much more better.

 

Hmm, I'll check it out.

 

I turned the AI off on purpose but I thought he would go through with the attack order indefinitely (chase an enemy) until one of em is dead, but he just stops if fighting if the enemy moves or uses a knockdown/stun effect (and stands still when he gets up).

[cronicler]

You need to configure the Ai to some basic command like attack strongest enemy / attack enemy: magical/ranged attacker and Aggrasive stance for a fire and forget scheme.

 

I usually prefered;

tank: attack closest, spam ability

rogue: attack tank's target, use momentum

ranged: attack tank's target, use suppressive fire

healer: heal tank, attack tank's target

mage: attack tank's target with basic spells.

(I used my own micro to cast mass heal, aoe or scattershot as the Ai is really bad with them. either friendly fireing or drawing unnecessary aggro)

[Stephen Amber]

NWN was definitely criticized for the graphics, it also came out the same time as Morrowind. Oddly enough, over the next year or so modders managed to do some amazing things with the NWN engine, and really helped it reach its full potential.

 

And the work continues to this day... There is a group completely overhauling NWN1.

[RPGmasterBoo]

 

It will take a lifetime to fix that

[Volourn]

"NWN was definitely criticized for the graphics"

 

Nobody claimed othwerwise, but it was a minority. Go abck and read reviews. You don't get a bunch of 90%+ ratings by having crappy graphics. No way no how. Hell, even ME2 has those whoc riticize its graphics. DA was criticzed even more than NWN for its 'lacklustre' graphics. Don't confuse the handful of people who bash NWN for the majority. That's embarassing.

 

EVERY game gets criticzed for their graphics, and everything.

 

If it exists, it's been criticized. Just a fact.

[HoonDing]

I turned the AI off on purpose but I thought he would go through with the attack order indefinitely (chase an enemy) until one of em is dead, but he just stops if fighting if the enemy moves or uses a knockdown/stun effect (and stands still when he gets up).

Turning AI off turns the game into NWN 2 with puppet mode activated, but without the possibility to queue up commands. Mind-numbingly tedious, unless you are not against pausing the game every 2 seconds to check whether your party members are still doing something.

 

If there were an option to auto-pause every round, it would be much better. But I'm not even sure whether there are even rounds in the game... it works best if it is played as a MMO.

[Bos_hybrid]

And there's no romances

 

 

Awakening just lost half it's audience.

[Starwars]

It doesn't phase me personally, but I must say I'm very surprised they decided on no romances in Awakening. It seems to be such a big thing for many Bioware fans.

 

On another note, I started up a new character (not sure if I'll follow it to the end, but...). Made a female dwarf noble. Was very impressed with this Origin, my favorite so far. Having played through the game before, you can of course kinda see what the "twist" is so to speak, but it's still done in a really excellent way. I also think this is the Origin that managed to weave the whole "Joining the Grey Wardens" plot in a satisfactory way. Very good stuff and provides excellent backstory to Orzammar.

 

Still haven't tried the Dalish Elf and Dwarven Commoner Origins.

[HoonDing]

I've finished the game with a human noble, City Elf, Dalish Elf & Elf mage and since I loathe Dwarves, I'm pretty much done with the game.

 

If a future full-blown sequel takes place in another part of Thedas, I might return again. Nothing what I've seen & heard about the expansion entices me into purchasing... although I am still tempted because of the apparent appearance of Skeletor.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I've finished the game with a human noble, City Elf, Dalish Elf & Elf mage and since I loathe Dwarves, I'm pretty much done with the game.

 

If a future full-blown sequel takes place in another part of Thedas, I might return again. Nothing what I've seen & heard about the expansion entices me into purchasing... although I am still tempted because of the apparent appearance of Skeletor.

 

I thought you said you didn't like it. What kept you going through 4 playthroughs??

[HoonDing]

I thought you said you didn't like it. What kept you going through 4 playthroughs??

A sad combination of obsessive compulsive disorder and lack of other new games to play.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Well this was slightly comical.

 

I set about killing Flemeth.

 

Sten + Alistair + Wynne were my party of choice. (lvl 15)

 

A minute into the fight Sten and Alistair are dead. Too expensive to keep raising them so I keep them like that.

 

I hang out on the other side of the map with Wynne healing me and throw two "Storm of the Century", with a few small spells in between. Flemeth just keeps fireballing me, which doesn't do anything since I've got a high fire resistance. Flemeth dies.

 

If I was willing to throw away health poultices I could have killed the dragon on my own which makes no sense... at all. Not much of an achievement.

 

Mages are definitely overpowered. At least a pure elementalist like mine.

Edited February 19, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[HoonDing]

Mages have lyrium potions, while other classes don't have any "stamina" potions. There should've been a lyrium addiction mechanic to balance it, me thinks. Similar to the Witcher's toxicity levels that came with potions.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Probably, because this way 10 lyrium potions killed an ancient dragon. I did pay a few gold coins for the ingredients though

 

The point was that it boiled down to attrition: my potions vs her health bar - not tactics, which is kinda sucky. The battle arena didn't exactly allow her to move around and change position. Wonder whose clever idea that was.

Edited February 20, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[~Di]

I've never mage-killed Flemeth. I usually have Alistair and Shayle (I mean, look at his hps!) beat on the front of her while my rogue backstabs until she either stamps us all to the ground, or tail-bats my rogue halfway across the map. Then we hop up, chug-a-lug healing potions while Wynne chug-a-lugs lyrium. Rinse and repeat. Rogue backstabs take her down incredibly fast, if one has a pair of top quality, rune-enhanced daggers. My rogue nearly always lands the killing blow.

 

I should make a group that can cast STorm of the Century. I've never seen it, because my mages ignore electrical altogether. Looks like I'm missing out...

Edited February 20, 2010 by ~Di

[Sand]

Lightning is the best spell chain in the game in my humble opinion.