jaguars4ever Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 On top of that, the JE world was massively boring and of course they start out the game by shoving a ton of expository cutscenes down your throat. Isn't that how every game begins? Yes, and therein lies the hypocrisy of JE dissidents. Games in general have universal problems within the medium. RPGs have universal problems within the genre. Beating up JE for expository cutscenes (common symptom with rpgs) or 1/2 game breaking abilities (common problem with games), is like blaming your Ford Fiesta for the motorway bottleneck traffic.
Pop Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 "Look at the rest of this ****" has never really been an effective defense of a game. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
Slowtrain Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 "Look at the rest of this ****" has never really been an effective defense of a game. awesome. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Shryke Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 i'm sure i've argued this with Volo before, but i found Jade Empire good for one playthrough and then forget about it entirely the story was nothing special. not overly bad, but nothing overly good either from memory there were a couple of token "good" closed fist choices and "bad" open palm, but for the majority of the game it was the generic "nice guy" or "jerk" responses the combat... ugh the combat i chose tiger strike and longsword at the start, and never had to do a single thing except spam the attack button, and if they were immune to one, switch to the other never needed to use chi strikes, barely had to ever heal, and never used focus mode i tried to play through a second time, but i really couldn't get into it. i got as far as the imperial city then gave up when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse!
Volourn Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 "the combat... ugh the combat i chose tiger strike and longsword at the start, and never had to do a single thing except spam the attack button, and if they were immune to one, switch to the other never needed to use chi strikes, barely had to ever heal, and never used focus mode" *shrug* Whatever you need to tell yourself to make yourself feel better. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Shryke Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 and typical Volo - a response that actually has nothing to do with the points i brought up my "feeling better" has absolutely nothing to do with what i said when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse!
Oner Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 JE ran between 20 and 30 fps and came out one year after Ninja Gaiden and in the same year as DMC3. Just in case anyone wants to frame relevant competition in terms of mechanics. If they had made the mechanics like that then you would see a lot of RPG purists saying that it was too hard. RPG= Strategy/Skill. Last RPG I remember that had something I could genuinely call strategy was Gothic. Strategies in games like BG and Co. is hard to differentiate from what is essentially cheating. Scout with the thief and throw a fireball on the enemy from outside their FoV, draw them away one-by-one, etc. Casting dispel on a buffed party isn't what I'd call strategy either. More like common sense. Jade Empire scores high marks with me for having an ending where the Bad Guy wins... which doesn't happen enough in games.Don't say that. I just read Doubt, so don't say that. DMC4 has a pretty nice character progression/advancement system. Put those mechanics in a game with player choice and consequence and congrats: you have an RPG with great combat mechanics running at 60. Would you please make that game? My Obs wish list is getting too long, but +1. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
bhlaab Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 On top of that, the JE world was massively boring and of course they start out the game by shoving a ton of expository cutscenes down your throat. Isn't that how every game begins? Well if it actually had to explain anything besides "You are the chosen one" I could understand the 20 minutes of info dump
Oner Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 On top of that, the JE world was massively boring and of course they start out the game by shoving a ton of expository cutscenes down your throat. Isn't that how every game begins? Well if it actually had to explain anything besides "You are the chosen one" I could understand the 20 minutes of info dump FO 2 didn't waste your time with cutscenes and exposition. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
skuld1 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 On top of that, the JE world was massively boring and of course they start out the game by shoving a ton of expository cutscenes down your throat. Isn't that how every game begins? Well if it actually had to explain anything besides "You are the chosen one" I could understand the 20 minutes of info dump FO 2 didn't waste your time with cutscenes and exposition. Instead it wasted your time with the temple of trials
Orogun01 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 "the combat... ugh the combati chose tiger strike and longsword at the start, and never had to do a single thing except spam the attack button, and if they were immune to one, switch to the other never needed to use chi strikes, barely had to ever heal, and never used focus mode" *shrug* Whatever you need to tell yourself to make yourself feel better. Didn't you know? There were Harmonic combos, you could two-shot almost every enemy. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
bhlaab Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 On top of that, the JE world was massively boring and of course they start out the game by shoving a ton of expository cutscenes down your throat. Isn't that how every game begins? Well if it actually had to explain anything besides "You are the chosen one" I could understand the 20 minutes of info dump FO 2 didn't waste your time with cutscenes and exposition. My new years resolution is to stop citing Fallout as doing everything perfectly, but yeah. In the Fallout games there generally a couple highly skippable "flavor" cutscenes, and then another one that is also skippable but manages to condense everything you need to know to start the game into a couple of sentences. I can't speak for all of Bioware's games, but Jade Empire and Mass Effect 1 begin with what I can only describe as boardroom meetings.
jaguars4ever Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) On top of that, the JE world was massively boring and of course they start out the game by shoving a ton of expository cutscenes down your throat. Isn't that how every game begins? Well if it actually had to explain anything besides "You are the chosen one" I could understand the 20 minutes of info dump FO 2 didn't waste your time with cutscenes and exposition. Instead it wasted your time with the temple of trials Firstly, FO2 cheats because its using FO1 as its functional cutscene/exposition. Secondly, don't diss Aroyo - one should never underestimate the value of a sharpened spear! Edited February 4, 2010 by jaguars4ever
Oner Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Secondly, don't diss Aroyo - one should never underestimate the value of a sharpened spear!It sells well alright. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
ramza Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I haven't played any of the most recent Bio games (ME 1 & 2, DA), but I do believe JE was one of the worst, on the same level as BG1. Despite what you people say, NWN1 was a very good game no matter how you see it (with its flaws, sure) but it allowed me to have fun for 5 years at least (OC, expansions, modules, online play). For its time, it offered many novelties despite the bad graphics. Kotor 1 was very nice too, Bio did a good job with the star wars universe (it hooked me even though I am not a star wars fan). JE was something like a Kotor clone with a different setting and different combat system. The problem is that it was short and not memorable. BG2 is my top RPG of all time. BG1 was ok, guess (just a primitive bg2). "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Oner Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 BG1 was ok, guess (just a primitive bg2).Sorry, but that was probably the dumbest way to phrase that sentence. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
jaguars4ever Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 BG1 was ok, guess (just a primitive bg2).Sorry, but that was probably the dumbest way to phrase that sentence. Good Sir, I must insist you pardon the testimonial infirmities pertaining to Corporal Ramza's locution. Truly, his articulation for semantical exposition has suffered following that ghastly expedition in East Africa. Unfortunately, Earl Kaftan Barlast of Etterington insisted I forgo the multitudinous legion of indigenous serfs at our disposal. Apparently the old bean reckons this wily gesture will extend an olive branch to the savages, following our righteous education of their heretical ways. Yours truly is inclined to agree, given the bombardment incident at Burundi. Nasty business that.
ramza Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Ha! Good one! Yeah, I guess I mistyped a few things. Is that so tragic? Vol does that all the time... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Oner Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Ha! Good one! Yeah, I guess I mistyped a few things. Is that so tragic? Vol does that all the time... Vol has the brainpower of a handful of dead butterflies. You don't. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
ramza Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Ha! Good one! Yeah, I guess I mistyped a few things. Is that so tragic? Vol does that all the time... Vol has the brainpower of a handful of dead butterflies. You don't. What's that supposed to mean? On the other hand though, I have the CAT POWER! "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
HoonDing Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Leave Jade Empire alone!! The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Oner Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Ha! Good one! Yeah, I guess I mistyped a few things. Is that so tragic? Vol does that all the time... Vol has the brainpower of a handful of dead butterflies. You don't. What's that supposed to mean? I retract my earlier statement. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
ramza Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Ha! Good one! Yeah, I guess I mistyped a few things. Is that so tragic? Vol does that all the time... Vol has the brainpower of a handful of dead butterflies. You don't. What's that supposed to mean? I retract my earlier statement. I was just checking if you meant that it was acceptable for Vol to mistype things (because of his limited brain capacity - sorry Vol, nothing personal) and that it wasn't for other people with normal brains. "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Oner Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Hmm...you have a point, my mistake. Dunno why he mistypes. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
RPGmasterBoo Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Well its been concluded that no one remembers Jade Empire anyway. Now let the game sink into well deserved obscurity. Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
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