Dragon Age Tactics

[TheHarlequin]

Force Field worked well against the Tleilaxu female... gave the party plenty of time to destroy the tentacles with Cone of Cold, etc.

 

It was just the most disgusting boss ever... the animation when she picked up one of my tanks still gives me nightmares.

 

Story wise clarify for me if you would... the big tenticle boobie boss.. from the whispers of the former capt insane dwarf you meet I though the elder dwarf I was looking for turned into that monster. That was what I thought all the hints were. Then after the monster I actually meet the elder dwarf. So... perhaps epic fail for me but I dont get the connection of the elder dwarf I was on the hunt for and boob boss...?

[Pidesco]

Dragon Age seems a bit too easy on normal, to me...

 

I don't use tactics at all, though.

[Volourn]

"Dragon Age seems a bit too easy on normal, to me..."

 

If you are on PC, it's because the first patched made easy and normal modes even easier because of all the complaining about 'hard' DA is.

[Gorth]

Force Field worked well against the Tleilaxu female... gave the party plenty of time to destroy the tentacles with Cone of Cold, etc.

 

It was just the most disgusting boss ever... the animation when she picked up one of my tanks still gives me nightmares.

 

Story wise clarify for me if you would... the big tenticle boobie boss.. from the whispers of the former capt insane dwarf you meet I though the elder dwarf I was looking for turned into that monster. That was what I thought all the hints were. Then after the monster I actually meet the elder dwarf. So... perhaps epic fail for me but I dont get the connection of the elder dwarf I was on the hunt for and boob boss...?

Spoiler (should really be in the discussion thread)

 

 

Hestith (sp?) and the boobie boss were both part of the original team of the paragon. The "paragon" happily sacrificed her followers (her own exposition when you meet her) in her quest for the forge. At least, that is how I interprested it.

 

[HoonDing]

"Dragon Age seems a bit too easy on normal, to me..."

 

If you are on PC, it's because the first patched made easy and normal modes even easier because of all the complaining about 'hard' DA is.

Didn't the patched normal mode just give small bonuses to companions' attack & defense? Doesnt' seem a big deal.

[Oner]

*** DW Warrior (builds used / what worked / progression)

How many times will you ask that?

 

 

Didn't the patched normal mode just give small bonuses to companions' attack & defense?

That it did.

[Pidesco]

I don't think a small change in bonuses to attack & defense can make that much of a difference to the game's difficulty. The problem seems to be that DA's systems just didn't allow the designers much latitude in creating combat set pieces and don't give enough options for the player to devise combat strategies.

 

It's shallow and doesn't harness the medium. In too many bad ways Dragon Age is still a static 2d game made with a 3d engine.

[Volourn]

DA's system isn't shallow or simple. Not even close. If it was, people wouldn't be complaining about how they don't understand how x effects y, z, or m. Nor would BIO have made combat even eaiser yet some people are supposedly (so they say) crusing through the game claiming that the final boss was 'easy' (as they drink dozens of potions). DA gives players LOTS of options. Lots, lots, lots, and lots of options. Way more than BG2 for sure. Or FO. Or say x favored game.

 

Just ask people what the best melee combat style is. One eprson will claim wepaon and shield as worthless while another will claim 2 hander style is worthless. One will claim that their meleers die too quick while otehrs have problems keeping their mages as non targets. Others will whine that rogues are useless while others will brag about hiding in combat and how overpowered it is. Etc., etc.

 

At least in DA - unlike BG2 - fighters have more options than 'swing' their sword and their options actually vary depending on what style they use.

 

Another example is DA ogre vs BG2 ogre. BG2 ogre does nothing but attack while DA ogre will charge, throw stones for area effect damage, scoop a player up and punch him (much like the overwhelm attac), and do a mass attack that hits all players in melee including knocking them back/down. That's a lot of stuff that you gotta to watch out for.

 

DA encounters are awesaome. Plain, and simple.

 

DA > BG2

[alanschu]

I can agree that the battles aren't "tactical" in that there's almost no consideration for the terrain. Outside of putting an enemy outside my LOS, not much advantage in that regard IMO. I do think that there is a variety of ways you can build your characters, and how they can compliment each other's parties though, that are all valid.

 

 

Just ask people what the best melee combat style is. One eprson will claim wepaon and shield as worthless while another will claim 2 hander style is worthless. One will claim that their meleers die too quick while otehrs have problems keeping their mages as non targets. Others will whine that rogues are useless while others will brag about hiding in combat and how overpowered it is. Etc., etc.

 

I have noticed this a lot on the main boards. Though I personally do consider the Mage to be probably the most powerful class. I haven't tried Blood Mage but I hear it can be quite devastating if min/maxed.

 

 

 

and do a mass attack that hits all players in melee including knocking them back/down.

And yes, this make me love Indomitable

Edited November 24, 2009 by alanschu

[Volourn]

"Though I personally do consider the Mage to be probably the most powerful class."

 

I agree that, overall, they are. But, if one thinks about it, it pretty much has to be that way with any system with magic. With the variety and 'specialness' of magic it has to be unless you make magic to be so limited that it is really no longer magic. I'd hate a game that had magic but made it simply 'equal' to physical prowess. With magic, almost anything is possible... only so much one can do with 'real world stuff' which most fighters/rogue abilities would fall under. Heck, even the hide in plain site/hide in middle of battles are edging into the 'magic' territory.

 

 

"I can agree that the battles aren't "tactical" in that there's almost no consideration for the terrain. Outside of putting an enemy outside my LOS, not much advantage in that regard IMO. I do think that there is a variety of ways you can build your characters, and how they can compliment each other's parties though, that are all valid."

 

Tell that to the people who whined about archers shooting at them from a top a hill or behind a barricade. Or, the enemy that has it happen to them. While it is true more could have been done with terrain, it's certainly a few steps up from the BGs. Though it tends to be in favor of the PC's enemies since largely we are enterting their domains.

 

One way to fix this is have the camp attacked more and you have the option to set traps (magic or normal) for them.

[Azure79]

Force Field worked well against the Tleilaxu female... gave the party plenty of time to destroy the tentacles with Cone of Cold, etc.

 

It was just the most disgusting boss ever... the animation when she picked up one of my tanks still gives me nightmares.

 

Story wise clarify for me if you would... the big tenticle boobie boss.. from the whispers of the former capt insane dwarf you meet I though the elder dwarf I was looking for turned into that monster. That was what I thought all the hints were. Then after the monster I actually meet the elder dwarf. So... perhaps epic fail for me but I dont get the connection of the elder dwarf I was on the hunt for and boob boss...?

Spoiler (should really be in the discussion thread)

 

 

Hestith (sp?) and the boobie boss were both part of the original team of the paragon. The "paragon" happily sacrificed her followers (her own exposition when you meet her) in her quest for the forge. At least, that is how I interprested it.

 

 

I think if you listen carefully, Branka says,

She found the Anvil of the Void but couldn't get past the traps, so she willingly sacrificed her female followers to be turned into the Brood Mothers. The mothers continuously produced darkspawn which Branka used to test the traps leading to the Anvil.

Pretty messed up.

[alanschu]

Tell that to the people who whined about archers shooting at them from a top a hill or behind a barricade.

 

Yup. That's why I said almost no consideration of the terrain. There definitely are some occasions.

[Azure79]

Fireball is the answer to all terrain

[Monte Carlo]

*** DW Warrior (builds used / what worked / progression)

How many times will you ask that?

 

*** DW Warrior (builds used / what worked / progression?)

[Spider]

I need some input.

 

I've planned from the get go to give my rogue the spcializations Assassin and Duelist. I never really planned on getting the duelist talents (I was calculating to level 20, and there just wasn't enough room), so I was picking Duelist only to get the stat bonuses. +2 dex was a nice way to reach those 36 needed for requirements.

 

But events in the Fade led med to reaching Dex 36 without Duelist, so now those aren't as important. I'm using dual wield mastery, so I don't have weapons that do damage based on dex (with or without a fix). I also realized I'm likely to reach a level higher than 20, so I might actually have use for the talents. Maybe.

 

So now I'm a bit torn between the duelist and the bard. The bard adds one point of cunning and two points of willpower, which is the interesting part. I do use up stamina with my rogue awfully quick, and although the top assassin talent helps a little, more is always better. We also get the benefit of the first bard song (the one that regenerates stamina), and possibly disorient. I just don't know if the first song is worth it, in terms of effectiveness. Rejuvenation, for instance, was a bit of a dissapointment.

 

The dex points will increase to hit chance (something cunning doesn't do with Lethality, which is somewhat of a drawback to that approach), as will the duelist talents (which will join Momentum in talents that are activated after the initial skills have been burned, essentially making it free).

 

So has anyone had experiences with either duelist or bard they care to share?

[Gromnir]

"I agree that, overall, they are. But, if one thinks about it, it pretty much has to be that way with any system with magic."

 

bs. Gromnir mentioned this on the biowarian board a Long time ago. the problem is that magic ain't treated by most game developers same way they treat other aspects o' combat. you build an archer and the archer ain't gonna be great in melee. the 2h da fighter is not an optimal tank and sucks at ranged, but is good at dealing big damage in melee. the dual-wielding rogue, especially early on, is gonna get slammed by any critter with big armour/damage resistance... 'cause no matter how many times you hit, dr gets taken off the top, and early level rogues just not gut the stats to do big damage... and they sure ain't tanks. etc.

 

the thing is, most developers has a brain seizure when they consider magic. they split schools o' magic based on elements like ice and fire, or traditional moor**** or vance stuff. has geek appeal, but it is a retarded way to build a rational system o' Combat magic. magic would be just as special if it were rational. for a da warrior to be successful, he gotta focus on a particular "school"... try to be good at dw and archery and 2h and you is epic fail. mages, on the other hand, can pick and choose from the smorgasbord o' da spells and be great at... every aspect o' combat. can does big single hit damage likes a 2h fighter. can does ranged and better area effect than any archer. can does a better job of disabling opponents than any rogue build. for chrissakes, make 'em pick one thing to be good at.

 

other alternative is to vast reduce the number o' spells. is far easier to balance with fewer spells.

 

regardless, make magic rational wouldn't make magic any less kewl... but it would make different, and da weren't going for different. am fully understanding why da didn't go for different. got traditional class breakdown and the familiar elves/dwarves/humans/ orcs (darkspawn) races and all the other trappings o' familiar fantasy setting. da tried to do slight and meaningful variations on tradition, but they weren't gonna get very far away from what players expect. is perfect understandable to do so, 'cause is risky to do original when you know that people likes familiar... and familiar not have to mean cliche neither.

 

tradition is a fine thing... save for when tradition sucks. traditional magic, with a huge potential catalog o' spells that allows mages to replicate and exceed most of the Combat abilities o' any other class, is a self-defeating approach... and it ain't necessary. 'cause something is expected not make it necessary.

 

also, as already noted, if da enemies reacted to mages rationally, people would be far less inclined to think that they were overpowered. if every time you entered combat with intelligent foes they all focused their efforts on your mage, combat would not be much fun at lower levels. sure, once you gets sleep and area effect spells and misdirection and death hex and other spells, then you can stroll through any combat... but how many folks would quit in frustration before reaching such point?

 

for spider,

 

we finished less than 1000 xp from level 23, and we missed some stuff... am not sure how many traps we simply set-off. at least a handful of quests too.

 

we used the french chick as a bard. her willpower sucked 'cause we tried to get her dex and cunning up to useful levels. her disorient worked on chumps who rare needed to be disoriented... were usually fail on boss and elites. am honest not sure o' the impact o' the first bard song thingie. didn't seem all that noteworthy though. lack of transparency regarding rules makes difficult to judge.

 

virumor thinks the french tart is the cat's meow, so maybe he gots a better notion regarding bard songs. our party were far better without her than with her... and we had given her all 4 bard talents.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[alanschu]

mages, on the other hand, can pick and choose from the smorgasbord o' da spells and be great at... every aspect o' combat

 

I think that an idea where continued focus in a particular school of magic improves the potency of all spells in that school of magic would have been an interesting way of doing things.

[Enoch]

mages, on the other hand, can pick and choose from the smorgasbord o' da spells and be great at... every aspect o' combat

 

I think that an idea where continued focus in a particular school of magic improves the potency of all spells in that school of magic would have been an interesting way of doing things.

I was under the impression that heavy investment in each of the 4 major groupings (elemental, spirit, entropy, and whatever) would decrease the mana costs of the spells contained therein. But that's less significant than an increase in potency would have been-- you can always address cost issues with lyrium potions.

[alanschu]

I didn't notice a decrease in mana cost, but I didn't really look for one either.

[Enoch]

I didn't notice a decrease in mana cost, but I didn't really look for one either.

I didn't notice it in effect, but for some reason I thought that the rule was there. Maybe one of the loading screen infobits?

Edited November 24, 2009 by Enoch

[Gromnir]

mages, on the other hand, can pick and choose from the smorgasbord o' da spells and be great at... every aspect o' combat

 

I think that an idea where continued focus in a particular school of magic improves the potency of all spells in that school of magic would have been an interesting way of doing things.

I was under the impression that heavy investment in each of the 4 major groupings (elemental, spirit, entropy, and whatever) would decrease the mana costs of the spells contained therein. But that's less significant than an increase in potency would have been-- you can always address cost issues with lyrium potions.

 

most of the mana/stamina cost features o' the game seem poorly conceived. no doubt mass rejuvenate does... something, but for a tier 4 spell it were laughable. am understanding why there is virtual no stamina regenerating options in the game. death blow + potions o' greater stamina would be ridiculous, no? our 2-h fighter were doing base damage in excess o' 60 midway through game. if he could use mighty blow with wild abandon the game would become somewhat busted. even so, as a player, the lure o' mana/stamina regeneration replenishment magic were high and we eagerly jumped at such options... only to find out that such spells and features were... impotent. lack o' rules transparency made character building feels like we were a contestant on Let's Make a Deal. Monty Hall would laugh his arse off to see how often we stoopid chose the mystery option behind curtain #2.

 

Monty: Now Gromnir, you have seen how well fireball works in this game, and you can add it to Wynne's spell list after three levels of investment. Or...

 

Gromnir: "Or" what Monty?

 

Monty: "Or" you can choose mass rejuvenate right now. Mass rejuvenate may be fantastic spell, or it may be like 1/3 of the spells available in dragon age: a complete loser. So, what will you choose?

 

Gromnir: You can't tell me anything more about mass rejuvenate before I make my choice?

 

Monty: What more do you need to know? The name says it all, or perhaps it doesn't. That's what makes choosing so exciting, right?

 

Gromnir: (sigh) I'll take what's behind curtain #2.

 

the curtain rises revealing a small can of play-doh with a ribbon on it.

 

*$%#

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Oner]

Mass Rejuvenation gives 5 stamina/mana /sec I think. The little buff icon next to the xp bar says so IIRC.

[Enoch]

Mass Rejuvenation gives 5 stamina/mana /sec I think. The little buff icon next to the xp bar says so IIRC.

But they don't tell you that until after you've picked the spell and tried to use it. And even then it's hidden on a tooltip that only pops up when you mouseover a very small icon.

[Oner]

But they don't tell you that until after you've picked the spell and tried to use it.

Never said they do. But now it's here for all to see and learn.

[Tigranes]

Yeah, this playthrough with respec I've given Morrigan Spirit Healer too, and both she and Wynne are sticking with Heal, Group Heal and Revive.

 

Grommy is right on all points on this one, lack of transparency regarding spells and abilities just doesn't make any sense, and I honestly thought that 'completion bar' above each type of ability/magic was showing some kind of general proficiency...