Calax Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I think there has been a noticeable decline in quality. Games are much more complex now from a technical point of view. The experiences are more streamlined, the games more formulaic. The innovation seems to come more from smaller indie games with the bigger developers taking less risks. The complexity of gameplay and the importance of story/characters/writing may have declined, but the overall quality of products has undoubtedly gone up. This, also as gaming has become larger in terms of audience and appeal certain niches have died out because gamers need to have things moving swiftly and dislike not having a clear direction. This is why Turtle RTS's and adventure games like Monkey Island and Myst have kinda fallen off the map. Turtle games because most players don't want to spend an hour trying to crack the nut of a king turtles base. And the adventure games often give you a goal, but 0 hints on how to reach it, often requiring you to look stuff up on gamefaqs. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Purkake Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Having a larger market should actually help the niches, but maybe we'll get there eventually. There used to be a nice balance between innovation and wide-market appeal, but now full-price games are all mainstream and simple-ish indie games have all the innovation. There's also stuff like Age of Decadence, but it's pretty much an off-the-radar pet project more than a products that will generate any real money.
alanschu Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I think that that has a lot to do with the fact that the price of games has remained static ($60ish dollars and always have been), while the cost of developing games has gone up quite quickly.
Slowtrain Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I actually like the way games are going, mostly because artistic direction is getting much, much better. artisitic direction is greater than either gameplay or story? Bioshock is a better game than System Shock 2 because it looks better? No, this is all just personal preference. SO is your personal preference to play a game that loosk better/has a better presentation vs one that plays better/has a better story? Given a limited amount of resources, as most game devs do in fact have, something has to be given short shrift. SO if people do in fact value presentation above other things, then the other things are going to get less attention from developers. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Purkake Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) SO is your personal preference to play a game that loosk better/has a better presentation vs one that plays better/has a better story? Given a limited amount of resources, as most game devs do in fact have, something has to be given short shrift. SO if people do in fact value presentation above other things, then the other things are going to get less attention from developers. In who's opinion? Everything isn't as black and white as you make it seem. @Alanschu: Quite possibly, but the industry pretty much dug that hole for themselves and people happily paying $60 for whatever minigame collection has the shiniest cover isn't helping either. Edited October 1, 2009 by Purkake
alanschu Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 SO is your personal preference to play a game that loosk better/has a better presentation vs one that plays better A game that looks better doesn't have to be one that does not play better. One of the things I like about games looking better and having finer details, is that I no longer need a text description of "The guard looks at you scornfully" but rather, I can see right on his face that he's looking at me scornfully. I have found with improved animations and graphics have also come improved detail and versatility in how your characters can move and react. Not always, but I'm thinking Splinter Cell style games and whatnot. I think a large part of what makes those games good is the level of detail in the art design for the game.
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I think there has been a noticeable decline in quality. Games are much more complex now from a technical point of view. The experiences are more streamlined, the games more formulaic. The innovation seems to come more from smaller indie games with the bigger developers taking less risks. The complexity of gameplay and the importance of story/characters/writing may have declined, but the overall quality of products has undoubtedly gone up. Wow "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Purkake Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I would have, if I hadn't found that sweet crossed out = symbol. It just looks neater.
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Your personal opinion ≠ fact. Yes, you've learned that opinions are not facts, good for you. Now take a short quiz: Betty wears a green dress. Betty is nice. Can you spot the fact? Very good girls and boys. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
HoonDing Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) I have no complaints about diminishing quality... I always manage to play some diamonds in the rough - Drakensang & Divinity 2 were two quality RPGs that I've played this year. Risen will probably be up there too. I just wish there were still quality adventure games made. I can't remember anything remarkable being made since Dreamfall (and that game was only remarkable because it coming out 7 years after TLJ)... Broken Sword 4 was a bitter disappointment as well. White Birds Productions didn't really deliver either... Beno Edited October 1, 2009 by virumor The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
alanschu Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Your personal opinion ≠ fact. Yes, you've learned that opinions are not facts, good for you. Now take a short quiz: Betty wears a green dress. Betty is nice. Can you spot the fact? Very good girls and boys. Are you implying that your perspective of the quality of games today is fact?
Bos_hybrid Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) The only games where quality has dropped are space sims. Unfortunately that's going to stay the same for the foreseeable future. God I hope EA does something more with the next Wing Commander game other then another arcade game. Edited October 1, 2009 by Bos_hybrid
Purkake Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Your personal opinion ≠ fact. Yes, you've learned that opinions are not facts, good for you. Now take a short quiz: Betty wears a green dress. Betty is nice. Can you spot the fact? Very good girls and boys. Then you realize that you can't objectively say that the quality of games has gone down and did indeed present your opinion as a fact?
Slowtrain Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 SO is your personal preference to play a game that loosk better/has a better presentation vs one that plays better A game that looks better doesn't have to be one that does not play better. AGreed, And all things being equal I thinka better presentation is preferable to an inferior one. But as a gamer, I find it distubing that DA might sell 500,00 fewer copies because of the "bad" graphics. (Or whatever number was mentioned in the other thread.) Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
alanschu Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I agree. I also have no idea who that chap is or what he bases his numbers on.
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Your personal opinion ≠ fact. Yes, you've learned that opinions are not facts, good for you. Now take a short quiz: Betty wears a green dress. Betty is nice. Can you spot the fact? Very good girls and boys. Then you realize that you can't objectively say that the quality of games has gone down and did indeed present your opinion as a fact? An opinion is by definition subjective. Why do you claim I presented my opinion as fact? Anyone who understands the difference between opinions and facts (which is taught in elementary school btw, hence my example) can't possibly think I'm claiming my opinion is fact, unless I explicitly stated that, which I didn't. Unfortunately 90% of the internet seems to have missed that day of school. Edited October 1, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Slowtrain Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 The only games where quality has dropped are space sims. Unfortunately that's going to stay the same for the foreseeable future. God I hope EA does something more with the next Wing Commander game other then another arcade game. Somebody's making space sims? Like Privateer and the X universe games? Link plz. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Purkake Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Great, your opinion has been noted, WoD. Edited October 1, 2009 by Purkake
alanschu Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) (which is taught in elementary school btw, hence my example) Is it? It's been so long I don't remember when I learned that. Seriously, it would have been better to just explain that you never stated your opinion as a fact rather than some weird example to try to prove a point, hoping he understand what point you're trying to make. I didn't learn that I had to be concise until post-secondary though And I still suck at it haha. Edited October 1, 2009 by alanschu
deganawida Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (which is taught in elementary school btw, hence my example) Is it? It's been so long I don't remember when I learned that. Seriously, it would have been better to just explain that you never stated your opinion as a fact rather than some weird example to try to prove a point, hoping he understand what point you're trying to make. I didn't learn that I had to be concise until post-secondary though And I still suck at it haha. Suck at what? Being concise, or post-secondary education?
Tel Aviv Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) So how about that Mass Effect. Is that Rahna bunk confirmed? Because if so Kaiden's going to spin his nut. ...if he's alive. Edited October 1, 2009 by Tel Aviv
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 It'd be interesting if it was true, and I wouldn't be surprised, but it's by no means confirmed. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
Recommended Posts