So Fallout 3

[bhlaab]

Bah, I still don't get why everyone gets so worked up about the stats. You could tag Medicine, Repair and Barter and have no problem completing the game.

 

Yeah, you could tag Medicine, Repair, and Barter and complete the game using small guns, melee, and lockpicking. That's why.

 

And hell yes I just quoted a post from 20 pages ago

Edited October 17, 2009 by bhlaab

[Purkake]

Bah, I still don't get why everyone gets so worked up about the stats. You could tag Medicine, Repair and Barter and have no problem completing the game.

 

Yeah, you could tag Medicine, Repair, and Barter and complete the game using small guns, melee, and lockpicking. That's why.

 

And hell yes I just quoted a post from 20 pages ago

 

That doesn't change what I said.

 

Also @ the people still bitter about FO3, it's been almost a year, let it go.

[Oner]

Also @ the people still bitter about FO3, it's been almost a year, let it go.

Time flies fast.

[Syraxis]

Also @ the people still bitter about FO3, it's been almost a year, let it go.

Time flies fast.

 

It's like we're all one big happy family.

[Slowtrain]

Yeah, you could tag Medicine, Repair, and Barter and complete the game using small guns, melee, and lockpicking. That's why.

 

That's the way Bethesda believes a crpg should be: choices don't matter.

[ramza]

Talking about an overrated game...

[Oner]

Talking about an overrated game...

I see you're hellbent on not liking this game.

[alanschu]

I'd consider a 3.5/5 from Ramza a pretty good score for this game.

 

I mean, it's no Jefferson, and he's been on the record numerous times about how games just aren't made for him anymore, and even went as far as inflicting additional penalties to Fallout 3 based purely on his disagreement with the game being called an RPG.

[ramza]

Shall I lower it to 3, then?

[Purkake]

Yeah, you could tag Medicine, Repair, and Barter and complete the game using small guns, melee, and lockpicking. That's why.

 

That's the way Bethesda believes a crpg should be: choices don't matter.

 

Ooh, are we making a Bethesda hate pile?

 

It was Fallout in name only!

[Oner]

They messed up the fluff completely!

Burn the witch, burn the witch!

[Slowtrain]

Yeah, you could tag Medicine, Repair, and Barter and complete the game using small guns, melee, and lockpicking. That's why.

 

That's the way Bethesda believes a crpg should be: choices don't matter.

 

Ooh, are we making a Bethesda hate pile?

 

It was Fallout in name only!

 

 

Nothing to do with Fallout specifically since Oblivion suffered from the same problems. It's Bethesda's way all the way, regardless of what IP they choose to work on.

 

Hey, they make a wad of cash so who can argue.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I still don't understand the 'it's not an rpg' arguments. Many quests have a number of ways to complete them with violent and non-violent solutions and plenty of dialogue options.

[Fionavar]

I just started, finally, playing FO 3 GOTY and I think its rather pleasing to play from PoV. No game will ever meet everyone's needs, but I am quite pleased with it - especially on the PS3 and on my HDTV! My own 4-leggeds were not so pleased when they heard I had to exterminate some of their cyber kin!

[Masterfade]

My own 4-leggeds were not so pleased when they heard I had to exterminate some of their cyber kin!

 

Hmmmm...Did Bethesda declare no dogs were harmed during the development of Fallout 3? Maybe they actually shot a real dog in their recording studio. Interplay's lawyers should hurry up and investigate, it's not too late to add another claim in their countersuit.

[jero cvmi]

I still don't understand the 'it's not an rpg' arguments. Many quests have a number of ways to complete them with violent and non-violent solutions and plenty of dialogue options.

[intelligence]So you're saying it's an RPG?

 

I find the "it's not an rpg" argument pretty void, too. I never cared about where a game gets filed under, RPG, FPS, RTS, BBQ or any other 3 Letter Acronym, and i don't think there's anything more boring than a "what's an RPG" discussion.

The point is that Fallout 3 was a game full of choices, but all of them were as meaningless as what kind of beard your character would have. And you could change even that later in the game. You could always do whatever you want regardless of your choices, and the outcome was always more or less the same. You could tag a skill and max all others. You could nuke a town and keep your local grocer and questgiver.

That was not the way the original Fallout worked, and for anyone who's not used to playing this type of dress-up-and-play-pretend game and wanted to play a Fallout sequel, not an Elder Scrolls sequel, it was frustrating as expected. In fact, i think it would be less frustrating if they skipped the whole stats and skills and dialogue "options" thing altogether, and made a GTA-style sandbox game, that would make more sense than having some numbers that do essentially nothing.

[Masterfade]

In fact, i think it would be less frustrating if they skipped the whole stats and skills and dialogue "options" thing altogether, and made a GTA-style sandbox game, that would make more sense than having some numbers that do essentially nothing.

 

Just because a few power gamers can max out every skills doesn't mean skills do "essentially nothing". Maxing out every skill is a gameplay choice and not everybody choose it. It requires a different play style which may make your character weaker for much of the game unless you go out of your way to hunt down hundreds of skill books early on. I had a maxed out character, I won't build another again because such powergaming isn't fun for me. That's meaningful choice.

 

Even if every character will end up maxing all skills(which isn't the case with FO3), it still doesn't mean numbers are meaningless. You still choose what skills to build up first and your choice will affect the gameplay until you actually max out everything. I don't think all our real life choices mean nothing just because in the end there will be a Big Freeze or Big Crunch or Big Whatever and all life will cease to exist. Do you?

Edited October 19, 2009 by Masterfade

[Slowtrain]

Maxing all skills isn't even the problem really. More generally its the plethora of skill points and the fact that skills don't have a huge impact on the game, both of which work to reduce the value of skill choices, which is pretty counter to the idea of a crpg.

 

 

Personally I think bethesda woudl be better off just making exploration shooters and drop the whole concepts of skils and levels and dialogue and role playing. I think that focus would make their games better and it appears to be what they do well.

[GreasyDogMeat]

[intelligence]So you're saying it's an RPG?

 

I find the "it's not an rpg" argument pretty void, too. I never cared about where a game gets filed under, RPG, FPS, RTS, BBQ or any other 3 Letter Acronym, and i don't think there's anything more boring than a "what's an RPG" discussion.

The point is that Fallout 3 was a game full of choices, but all of them were as meaningless as what kind of beard your character would have. And you could change even that later in the game. You could always do whatever you want regardless of your choices, and the outcome was always more or less the same. You could tag a skill and max all others. You could nuke a town and keep your local grocer and questgiver.

That was not the way the original Fallout worked, and for anyone who's not used to playing this type of dress-up-and-play-pretend game and wanted to play a Fallout sequel, not an Elder Scrolls sequel, it was frustrating as expected. In fact, i think it would be less frustrating if they skipped the whole stats and skills and dialogue "options" thing altogether, and made a GTA-style sandbox game, that would make more sense than having some numbers that do essentially nothing.

That is true, but its also the case for most RPGs in recent memory. Even NwN 2 has a point where you can work for the guard or thieves and you end up taking the same quests with slight changes and dialogue and the same outcome. I don't remember the last modern RPG where you could do something with real negative consequences.

[Mamoulian War]

[intelligence]So you're saying it's an RPG?

 

I find the "it's not an rpg" argument pretty void, too. I never cared about where a game gets filed under, RPG, FPS, RTS, BBQ or any other 3 Letter Acronym, and i don't think there's anything more boring than a "what's an RPG" discussion.

The point is that Fallout 3 was a game full of choices, but all of them were as meaningless as what kind of beard your character would have. And you could change even that later in the game. You could always do whatever you want regardless of your choices, and the outcome was always more or less the same. You could tag a skill and max all others. You could nuke a town and keep your local grocer and questgiver.

That was not the way the original Fallout worked, and for anyone who's not used to playing this type of dress-up-and-play-pretend game and wanted to play a Fallout sequel, not an Elder Scrolls sequel, it was frustrating as expected. In fact, i think it would be less frustrating if they skipped the whole stats and skills and dialogue "options" thing altogether, and made a GTA-style sandbox game, that would make more sense than having some numbers that do essentially nothing.

That is true, but its also the case for most RPGs in recent memory. Even NwN 2 has a point where you can work for the guard or thieves and you end up taking the same quests with slight changes and dialogue and the same outcome. I don't remember the last modern RPG where you could do something with real negative consequences.

 

The Witcher

[Slowtrain]

[real negative consequences.

 

 

I don't even think a crpg needs that. Or should have that. I just think that in a crpg decisions should have tangible in game consequences.

 

You do realize that in FO3, you can start with a base 25 skill in small guns and completely max the skill without ever spending an actual level up skill point on it.

[Monte Carlo]

Just a quick observation....

 

Here in the UK there are a load of TV adverts for FO:3 GotY edition. Which is amazing, I mean straight console titles make TV ads frequently here (Brutal Legend is all over the place) but Fallout?

 

Bethseda have successfully mainstreamed Fallout.

 

Cheers

MC

[Nightshape]

Just a quick observation....

 

Here in the UK there are a load of TV adverts for FO:3 GotY edition. Which is amazing, I mean straight console titles make TV ads frequently here (Brutal Legend is all over the place) but Fallout?

 

Bethseda have successfully mainstreamed Fallout.

 

Cheers

MC

 

YAY! Bethseda love rivelling that of Alex Evans's love for Tom Howard.

[entrerix]

rejoice that one of the best hardcore rpg's has been dumbed down to the point where clickyjoe the halo player can **** around with the game for a handful of hours and "blow sum headz off those big green dudes".*

 

 

 

 

 

 

* i liked fallout 3 despite my frequent complaints about it.

[bhlaab]

Bethseda have successfully mainstreamed Fallout.

 

I wouldn't say successfully-- they had to tear it apart and reorder everything in order to do so