New Game Show

[Gfted1]

And why there is serious resistance to offering homosexuals equal protection from being beaten to death???

 

 

I think you just got a little overboard but Id like some clarification. Do you honestly think its legal to kill a homosexual in the U.S.? As a matter of fact, you will get a extra special long sentence if you commit a hate crime in the U.S. So, technically, the groups included in that list already get extra protection.

[lord of flies]

I think you just got a little overboard but Id like some clarification. Do you honestly think its legal to kill a homosexual in the U.S.? As a matter of fact, you will get a extra special long sentence if you commit a hate crime in the U.S. So, technically, the groups included in that list already get extra protection.

What is the ethical difference between beating a man to death because he is black, and beating a man to death because he is gay? There is none. Yet many in the United States do not want to see the same protections granted to homosexuals as is granted to blacks, and as a consequence they still aren't. "Equal protection" means that the law will punish just as harshly - obviously, if we're talking about actual protection from murder, we are ludicrously out of whack, since 1 out of every 12 transsexuals are murdered, cops make "jokes" about their status, et cetera.

[Gfted1]

What is the ethical difference between beating a man to death because he is black, and beating a man to death because he is gay? There is none. Yet many in the United States do not want to see the same protections granted to homosexuals as is granted to blacks, and as a consequence they still aren't.

 

Maybe I wasnt clear. Sexual orientation is covered by State hate crime laws in 32 of 50 states. However, you are correct, there is no Federal law.

 

"Equal protection" means that the law will punish just as harshly

 

Hate crime laws punish more harshly then the exact same crime against a non-minority.

 

- obviously, if we're talking about actual protection from murder, we are ludicrously out of whack, since 1 out of every 12 transsexuals are murdered, cops make "jokes" about their status, et cetera.

 

Link?

[lord of flies]

Maybe I wasnt clear. Sexual orientation is covered by State hate crime laws in 32 of 50 states. However, you are correct, there is no Federal law.

Thank you for admitting I am correct.

 

Hate crime laws punish more harshly then the exact same crime against a non-minority.

No, hate crime laws punish people who commit hate crimes. If I kill a black guy because I want his money, that is not a hate crime; if I kill a white guy because he is white, that is a hate crime. Happy to help.

 

Link?

Bluh, dunno validity, but here's one source. It's easy to find data on the fact that American transsexuals are ludicrously overrepresented in murder rates, even if that particular number is wrong. Edited July 8, 2009 by lord of flies

[213374U]

this is a ****ty post.

 

sorry mate.

Ah, well. I'll take that as a compliment.

 

 

"Ah, yes, the 'gay-haters' and 'anti-sex education factions' are a very small minority." That'd be why there is an entire political party in the United States which focuses heavily upon this? And why even "progressive" Obama has yet to pass any serious pro-gay reform? And why the official position of the Catholic Church (a centralized organism) is that homosexuality is a sin and so is using a condom? And why there is serious resistance to offering homosexuals equal protection from being beaten to death???

They are Christians. They are Republican. They are, according to you, anti-gay. Go on and establish the relationship between those conditions, past the purely anecdotal and incidental. Show us how being Christian makes you an anti-gay Republican. Show us how NOT being Christian makes you like gay people better. And as long as those groups you cited do nothing to quash the freedoms/rights whatever of the minorities they don't like, their opinions are just as valid as your own. You're just going to have to live with that.

 

I already argued against the centralized character of the Catholic Church, btw.

 

"pro-gay reforms", lol. Positive discrimination is still discrimination, m'kay?

[lord of flies]

They are Christians. They are Republican. They are, according to you, anti-gay. Go on and establish the relationship between those conditions, past the purely anecdotal and incidental. Show us how being Christian makes you an anti-gay Republican. Show us how NOT being Christian makes you like gay people better. And as long as those groups you cited do nothing to quash the freedoms/rights whatever of the minorities they don't like, their opinions are just as valid as your own. You're just going to have to live with that.

Um, I'm pretty sure they say Christianity is the reason they're anti-gay Republicans? Just FYI. Why don't you show how they're wrong?

I already argued against the centralized character of the Catholic Church, btw.

You see, the pope is really a powerless figurehead of the Catholic Church and does not really represent its various bishops and archbishops, despite the method in which he is selected. Furthermore

"pro-gay reforms", lol. Positive discrimination is still discrimination, m'kay?

Repealing DOMA, extending hate crime protection to sexual orientation, making gay marriage law at federal level, guaranteeing that homosexuals will not be discriminated against in business or housing = discrimination. Oooookay...

[213374U]

Um, I'm pretty sure they say Christianity is the reason they're anti-gay Republicans? Just FYI. Why don't you show how they're wrong?

Nope. You're the one trying to place everyone in the same camp. The burden of proof lies with you.

 

 

You see, the pope is really a powerless figurehead of the Catholic Church and does not really represent its various bishops and archbishops, despite the method in which he is selected.

And I guess you know this for the same reason you know that every Christian must be a Republican bigot. Okay.

 

What does it have to do with what I said, anyway?

 

 

guaranteeing that homosexuals will not be discriminated against in business or housing = discrimination.

How is that specifically pro-gay? And why should it be limited to gay people? Tsk tsk.

 

Hate crime legislation IS positive discrimination. Sorry if you don't agree. You're right about DOMA, though. But, how is it linked with the alleged bigotry of Christians as opposed to Americans in general? We have gay marriage over here, and Catholics are a majority. *shrug*

[Blarghagh]

I don't mean to be rude, but I'd like to give attention to the part where you guys have started getting entirely into specifics while completely forgetting about tying it into the point you were trying to make in the first place.

[Walsingham]

Buddhism is the only organized religion that makes any sense.

 

Love thy neighbour? Turn the other cheek? Alms to the poor?

 

Oh yes, makes no bloody sense at all.

 

That is just one bit of Christianity, Walsh. Take it as a whole, not piecemeal. At the same time as Christians advocate love thy neighbor most are also spouting off bigotry when it comes to those who they think are living in sin such as gays and lesbians. While they are advocating to turn the other cheek, there are those among them that seek to start wars and hoping that Israel starts Armageddon. A religion is only as good as its followers.

 

It is YOU who are taking things piecemeal. Being a fascist bigot and blaming Jesus does not invalidate Christianity. At least it had better not or by inference the BNP being fascist bigots in the name of Britain means I am by inference one too.

 

In any case you can't measure any belief system by its worst examples. As I could swiftly prove if I knew precisely which belief system you claimed to follow.

 

BTW, I guess LoF didn't pay the slightest attention when he ragged out for using pointless bits of latin.

[lord of flies]

Nope. You're the one trying to place everyone in the same camp. The burden of proof lies with you.

You said that anti-gay factions are a "very small minority." This is simply not true.

And I guess you know this for the same reason you know that every Christian must be a Republican bigot. Okay.

 

What does it have to do with what I said, anyway?

You claimed that anti-gay bigotry is a minority position - if it's a minority position, why is held by the pope and cardinals???

How is that specifically pro-gay? And why should it be limited to gay people? Tsk tsk.

Gays are not legally protected against discrimination for the purpose of housing and jobs at present. It would obviously be pro-gay to grant them such rights. Durr.

Hate crime legislation IS positive discrimination. Sorry if you don't agree. You're right about DOMA, though. But, how is it linked with the alleged bigotry of Christians as opposed to Americans in general? We have gay marriage over here, and Catholics are a majority. *shrug*

Hate crime legislation is both ways If I pass a hate crime law which protects people on the basis of sexual orientation, that applies the other way around - if a bunch of gay guys get together and beat up a straight man (because he's straight), it's a hate crime. If a bunch of black teenagers go out and beat a white kid into a coma (because he's white), that's a hate crime too.

[Gorth]

I find the concept of "minorities" discriminating. By even identifying people as belonging to a "minority", you are supporting the division of people and the associated attibuting of "values" to groups of people.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Numberman and Walsh,

 

Go look up the old news footage of interviews with a Christian organization called the "Moral Majority." I have seen and experienced more intolerance from Christians than from any other religious institutions. From the so-called "Pro-Life" movement advocating killing doctors to those who supported the gay marriage ban amendment in California. And its just not Christianity, but also the other two Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Islam. The actions of all their followers is a measurement of what their religion is about. From the most benign, to the the most bitter extremist. The Abrahamic religions uses violence and hate as a means to propagate themselves and marginalize what they deem as inferior, even within themselves. Sunnis versus Shiites in the Middle East, Protestants versus Catholics in Northern Ireland, and so on.

 

When was the last time you seen a Buddhist extremist blowing themselves up in a suicide run, or blowing up a medical clinic, or trying to spread hate through its own government?

 

A religion is only as good as its worse elements.

[Slowtrain]

When gay marriage was up for vote here a few years ago, you should have heard the completely insane prerecorded Christian spam calls I was getting urging me to get out and vote against gay marriage. It was some of the most loony babbling **** I've ever heard. Quite frightening really to see the level some people are operating on.

[Blarghagh]

I'd say something about how gay marriage is legal in my country, but it'd only cause LoF to make some random jab about the East India Company or somesuch anyway.

[213374U]

You said that anti-gay factions are a "very small minority." This is simply not true.

For all intents and purposes, it is. Read Hades' original comment, and read my reply. Read it as many times as you need, understand what kind of minority Hades and I were talking about, and then get back to me.

 

 

You claimed that anti-gay bigotry is a minority position - if it's a minority position, why is held by the pope and cardinals???

Because the Pope and Cardinals are, in themselves, a minority, silly! Whatever power they have over the Catholic Church is something even you can't seem to get straight.

 

Further, being anti-gay is nowhere near being part of the WBC.

 

 

Gays are not legally protected against discrimination for the purpose of housing and jobs at present. It would obviously be pro-gay to grant them such rights. Durr.

Discrimination of any kind is against the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution (cue Enoch). You don't need legislation targeting specific segments of the population if you apply the law as it's written. In fact, you are creating further inequalities if you do.

 

"Durr".

 

Hate crime legislation is both ways If I pass a hate crime law which protects people on the basis of sexual orientation, that applies the other way around - if a bunch of gay guys get together and beat up a straight man (because he's straight), it's a hate crime. If a bunch of black teenagers go out and beat a white kid into a coma (because he's white), that's a hate crime too.

Lol. Is that worse than a bunch of black kids beating a black kid to death, and how so? "Hate crimes" are bull****. You don't gangrape, torture and murder somebody out of love. Either make punishment harsher across the board, or don't bother. You are just arguing for further social division, as Gorth already pointed out.

 

You are losing your touch chum.

Edited July 9, 2009 by 213374U

[Meshugger]

Gays are not legally protected against discrimination for the purpose of housing and jobs at present. It would obviously be pro-gay to grant them such rights. Durr.

Discrimination of any kind is against the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution (cue Enoch). You don't need legislation targeting specific segments of the population if you apply the law as it's written. In fact, you are creating further inequalities if you do.

 

"Durr".

 

It sure took a while before this was pointed out.

 

Many seem to forget that almost every civilized society has the following norm: No form of discrimination on the individual is allowed on the basis of religion, race, sexuality and gender. Why make further exceptions?

[Walsingham]

When was the last time you seen a Buddhist extremist blowing themselves up in a suicide run, or blowing up a medical clinic, or trying to spread hate through its own government?

 

A religion is only as good as its worse elements.

 

*sound of bashing head into wall*

 

And every country is only as good as its worst elements, every person only as good as their worst organ... pure liquid genius.

 

You condemn billions as extremists for the actions of a few. YOU preach intolerance as bad as some extremists do. Not someone at random. You're doing it right now. And i believe like most intolerance it is borne of ignorance. You need to get out of your damn basement and go see some of the good being done in simple every day ways by christians, go see the common humanity, and stop looking for a whipping boy to vent your spleen on.

[Hurlshort]

Actually, Buddhist extremists in Sri Lanka are quite violent and target other religious groups. They've even attacked schools.

[kirottu]

Actually, Buddhist extremists in Sri Lanka are quite violent and target other religious groups. They've even attacked schools.

 

You shouldn

[Killian Kalthorne]

When was the last time you seen a Buddhist extremist blowing themselves up in a suicide run, or blowing up a medical clinic, or trying to spread hate through its own government?

 

A religion is only as good as its worse elements.

 

*sound of bashing head into wall*

 

And every country is only as good as its worst elements, every person only as good as their worst organ... pure liquid genius.

 

You condemn billions as extremists for the actions of a few. YOU preach intolerance as bad as some extremists do. Not someone at random. You're doing it right now. And i believe like most intolerance it is borne of ignorance. You need to get out of your damn basement and go see some of the good being done in simple every day ways by christians, go see the common humanity, and stop looking for a whipping boy to vent your spleen on.

 

Oh yes, lets go out and see some good. Did you know that that Rev. Phelps guy is visiting Ames again. Yeah, like I really want to go out and see that. Any good that comes from a religion is a fluke and nothing more. Then again, that can by said about the human race in general.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Killian Kalthorne

[213374U]

Boy, are you obsessed with Phelps. What, he found you too hateful and bitter for his congregation?