Germany bans violent games

[Wrath of Dagon]

Chess depicts war, war is killing, chess is an abstraction of killing.

 

Ok, so I guess checkers, by that standard, is also all about war. You seem to have ignored the fact that, as I pointed out, Chess is a game of strategy, one where, I might ad, you cannot kill the enemy king

[Purkake]

 

Ok, so, now, as long as something is in a fantasy or science-fiction setting it is ok with you? I guess you wouldn

[alanschu]

Ok, so I guess checkers, by that standard, is also all about war. You seem to have ignored the fact that, as I pointed out, Chess is a game of strategy, one where, I might ad, you cannot kill the enemy king

[Purkake]

Since chess is such an abstraction why can't the "defeated" pieces be considered routed or incapacitated instead of killed. There is nothing to suggest that they die, they are just out of the game.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yes, since it's an abstraction, you can imagine anything. But the point is it's an abstraction of combat, and we know what happens in combat.

[Gorgon]

Chess is about what happens two or three moves ahead, which you never fully understand, barring being a genius. That's it in a nutshell.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

You can kill every other unit though.

 

No, you can “take” every piece, sans the King, and take does not equal kill. In fact, if one looks at the culture, take would more likely equal capture in most of the cases as a captured unit can be ransomed for a profit.

 

 

KOTOR isn't about killing either, it's about having an adventure.

 

An adventure where killing is a necessity that cannot be avoided, much like the adventure in Grand Theft Auto or Doom.

 

You're told they're crushed, it's not actually depicted.

 

No, you can see the units you use it on.

 

 

...kind of like Oblivion.

 

An extremely bloody, violent game where you could see mutilated corpses and fill units with arrows. Oh yes, Oblivion was nothing like all those “horrible violent games.”

 

But there's no way to abstract sex crimes enough to make them acceptable.

 

That’s your opinion.

 

Perhaps it's because violence has always been an accepted part of Western culture. I suppose if we were all pacifists its depiction might be as objectionable.

 

Sigh… That’s exactly what I said before – you do not care about violence but will get worked up if sex is involved. “Western values” are full of hypocrisy, and nothing you say can change that fact.

 

It's not harmless if it caters to pervert fantasies.

 

You have to back up that statement or it’s nothing more than your opinion.

 

Good chess players will concede prior to checkmate, if checkmate has become inevitable.

 

Yes, but if you’re a good player that rarely happens as there is nearly always hope of a comeback.

 

...and we know what happens in combat.

 

All of the things Purkake mentioned.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Sexual assault and sex are too very different things.

[HoonDing]

Since chess is such an abstraction why can't the "defeated" pieces be considered routed or incapacitated instead of killed. There is nothing to suggest that they die, they are just out of the game.

It's possible in

...

[Purkake]

Since chess is such an abstraction why can't the "defeated" pieces be considered routed or incapacitated instead of killed. There is nothing to suggest that they die, they are just out of the game.

It's possible in

...

 

Everything's better with computers!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Sexual assault and sex are too very different things.

 

Of course, they are; but, in general, western peoples tend to get worked up about sex more then they do about violence.

[Tigranes]

Perhaps it's because violence has always been an accepted part of Western culture. I suppose if we were all pacifists its depiction might be as objectionable.

 

Perhaps sex should always have been an accepted part of Western culture, too. I mean, I suppose if we were all celibate its depiction might be objectionable...

 

There's no denying that sex occupies a very weird spot in the Western psyche. It's kind of futile to expect video games, with all the other social baggage they have, to make a 'difference' here though.

[Maria Caliban]

Wrong. I don't know what kind of dumb moral system you're building this around, but I'm a utilitarian, so let's go with that.

 

Rapelay hurts, literally, no one.

 

If I break into your house and steal your TV, I haven't hurt you, but I've still done something unethical. If I tell you that your girlfriend is cheating on you and she's not, I've done something unethical despite a lack of physical hurt.

 

For something to qualify as

[Purkake]

So where do you put the games? Do they go under art?

Edited June 8, 2009 by Purkake

[Maria Caliban]

So where do you put the games? Do they go under art?

 

 

Of course they do. At present, they're a highly commercialized and undeveloped art, but still art.

[Purkake]

So where do you put the games? Do they go under art?

 

 

Of course they do. At present, they're a highly commercialized and undeveloped art, but still art.

 

I agree, you just didn't specifically mention it in your previous post.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Purkake

[Mamoulian War]

Sexual assault and sex are too very different things.

 

Having adventure and having adventure while killing people are too very different things.

[lord of flies]

Sexual assault and sex are too very different things.

Pretend sexual assault and pretend murder aren't, however.

 

Did you know that some people consensually engage in pretend sexual assault with their significant other? It's true. But I guess that's "not OK" by your definition of it?

If I break into your house and steal your TV, I haven't hurt you, but I've still done something unethical. If I tell you that your girlfriend is cheating on you and she's not, I've done something unethical despite a lack of physical hurt.

 

For something to qualify as

[Meshugger]

What about a rapegame where you rape robots or cyborgs? Is that more okay?

[Oner]

Cyborgs are living beings with mechanic enhancements, so no, it wouldn't be okay.

Also, what about symbolic rape?

[Meshugger]

Cyborgs are living beings with mechanic enhancements, so no, it wouldn't be okay.

Also, what about symbolic rape?

 

But what if the cyborg(s) are genetically enhanced to accept rape and grow to love it? (in the game that is)

[Oner]

Then it's not rape anymore.

[Meshugger]

But is it rape for someone else?

[lord of flies]

Then it's not rape anymore.

What if you have sex with your girlfriend, but you pretend you're raping her, and she pretends too?

[Walsingham]

I'm not a mod any more. But if I were I'd be concerned about an in depth discussion of rape. I'm just saying.

 

 

We're all annoyed that our hobby is under threat. However, I've seen studies which show that children imitate expressions of violence. That is they don't get more violent but they do change the way they are violent. Krezack probably knows the study, but I can't recall it. There certainly seems to be a rising determination to settle arguments with weapons when before they would have been settled with fists. And I'm talking as someone who carried a knife at school for a while before I realised I might actually have to stab someone (I switched to a length of steel rebar).

 

On the other hand, the most crazy violent place I've spent any length of time was South Africa, and none of the people doing it there could afford shoes, let alone playstations.

 

Personally, on reflection I think a lot of children's mental and criminal issues comes down to a total lack of order or support. I have several friends who are teachers or social workers, and it seems kids these days live in a strange Lord of the Flies (no dig intended) world without adult rules. They entirely 'police' themselves because adults are only allowed to encourage and suggest. This is a good idea in the nursery, but not for hormone crazed teenagers. Particularly for boys. Indeed, in most 'primitive' societies* teenage boys are sequestered away for the duration and closely regimented until they calm down. Obviously such regimentation is delicate and often leads to abuse. But it seems better than the alternative of creating generations of feral kids.

 

 

*Zulu kraals, Afghan madrassas, English boarding schools.