David Carradine

[Volourn]

"There have been cultures and times when it was considered noble/honorable. *shrug*"

 

Lots of cultures do a lot of dumb things. Some cultures believe its legit to treat their wives like slaves, or eat other humans. It doesn't make it acceptable. Sorry.

 

Suicide - as opposed to actual sacrifice (ie. throwing yourself on a grenade to save others) are NOT the same thing.

 

 

"no matter what the circumstances are it's still sad to see the guy died."

 

Absolutely agree with this 100%.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Volourn

[LadyCrimson]

It doesn't make it acceptable. Sorry.

You are confusing my (irritatingly constant) general dislike for equating personal feelings/culture beliefs/trends with fact, with an attempt to actually change your own emotional stance about suicide. I wasn't trying to change anyone's personal opinions there.

I don't really feel strongly about it one way or another. I think suicide is a sad choice and a selfish one, but my personal feelings are that selfish does not always mean cowardly. I can, however, understand why some feel that suicide is cowardly. I just don't necessarily agree.

Edited June 5, 2009 by LadyCrimson

[Volourn]

Fair enough.

[Aristes]

The biggest reason for making suicide shameful is that shame discourages the act. It seems perfectly natural to equate suicide with a crime if you believe that the act itself is harmful to more people than the practitioner. Of course, it seems like there's little point in making something a crime when you can only punish folks who fail.

 

In a logical sense, I can see why someone would characterize the act as cowardly in addition to using shame as a powerful prohibition. Suicide used as a means to escape punishment for wrongdoing, for example, probably seems cowardly to some folks. Same for escaping other problems.

 

According to others, especially in certain circumstances, suicide is the honorable course to take. From the Romans to the Japanese and even to this century, suicide has been the honorable means to die like a gentleman. For example, Field Marshal Keitel allowed Erwin Rommel to commit suicide.

 

In an attempt to deter suicides, society will probably associate the act with shame. Some folks will see the act as shameful regardless. I know I generally view suicide as "cowardly" in a sense, although I also see it as extremely unfortunate and usually a sign of some sort of psychiatric problem. I mean, unless you're a general who lost the battle and would be subject to humiliation by being dragged through the streets of Rome or some similar situation.

 

I'm really actually kind of bummed about Carradine. It's always too bad to hear news like this. I guess that's just life. *shrug*

[Gorth]

I will always remember him as the hero Kain in The Warrior and the Sorceress

 

R.I.P.

[Oner]

Suicide is not "cowardly". It's a decision the person takes, and no one has the right to call him a coward for that.

+1

I find it hard to call something cowardly, when it takes all your willpower to do it.

[Hell Kitty]

The biggest reason for making suicide shameful is that shame discourages the act.

 

Possibly. Alternatively it discourages people from talking about it, and thus discourages people from asking for help. The problem is that when a person is suicidal, they're at their lowest point. Whatever their problems are, they no longer feel capable of dealing with them, and the emotions they are experiencing are so strong they no longer feel capable of living with them. When society labels those individuals who commit suicide as cowards then society is simply agreeing with the negative view such individuals have of themselves. "I can no longer cope, I am a coward." "Yes, you are a coward, a selfish coward."

[Humodour]

Why would he kill himself?

because he was suicidal?

 

^gorgon: people may have depended upon this to put food on their table, but nooooo, we can't think that because it's about money. heaven forbid we condemn his cowardly act and the potential for people being out of work because it's about money.

 

you're just an ass. is everything about being an ass with you?

 

taks

Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

 

 

lol

[Aristes]

You also can't say it's simply a decision someone makes and therefore it exculpate them from blame. I might take advantage of that and decide to murder some poor bastard. What I assume you mean is that it is a decision that someone makes about his own person and therefore it is perfectly legitimate. Nevertheless, the decisions you make about your own person impact folks around you. Why is it that we have laws regarding seat belts and motorcycle helmets? You might not agree with the laws, which is a legitimate point. Fine. ...But the idea behind the laws is that, even though the decision directly impacts the individual, the effects are often widespread throughout society. If we don't want folks being injured in car accidents and therefore mandate seatbelt use, why would we not look at suicide and, more importantly to this particular point, attempted suicide in the same way? Who ends up footing the bill when someone ends up putting himself under long term medical care by going through a windshield or screw up a suicide attempt?

 

As to the bravery idea, you can't have it both ways. Suicide can't be a supreme act of will for folks who are afraid to discuss it.

The biggest reason for making suicide shameful is that shame discourages the act.

 

Possibly. Alternatively it discourages people from talking about it, and thus discourages people from asking for help. The problem is that when a person is suicidal, they're at their lowest point. Whatever their problems are, they no longer feel capable of dealing with them, and the emotions they are experiencing are so strong they no longer feel capable of living with them. When society labels those individuals who commit suicide as cowards then society is simply agreeing with the negative view such individuals have of themselves. "I can no longer cope, I am a coward." "Yes, you are a coward, a selfish coward."

 

I agree with this whole heartedly. I think shame cuts both ways. It discourages people from the act, but it also makes it extremely difficult for people to discuss the problems that result in suicidal thoughts in the first place. Shame is a powerful force, but it's indiscriminate. It's good if when it makes suicide unthinkable to most folks, but it's bad when it stops folks from seeking help.

 

It's not my place to judge suicides. There but for the grace of God... I don't judge them. However, there is a discussion going on and I thought I'd participate. Unlike the whole Prop 8 issue, the State of California didn't require me to vote on any issue. I'm just here giving my two cents.

 

I just think it sucks that Carradine died. Calling him a coward after the fact doesn't make it suck any less. Might even make it suck more.

[Volourn]

"It seems perfectly natural to equate suicide with a crime"

 

Nah. I don't think it should be a crime. Like you said, making it a rime only punishes those who failed at it. And, largely, those who fail at it, are often said to purpsoefully fail because they actually don't want to die.

 

Don't get me started on helmets,a nd seatbelts being madatory as laws. It's lame.

 

" There but for the grace of God..."

 

Grace of a murderer. Sorry, I don't listen to what god has to say. He's not any better than Hitler. Yeah, I went there.

 

 

Anyways, sucks about Carradine. I enjoyed his work for the most part.

[Aristes]

You know, whenever I read your posts, I think of Rorschach. I don't mean that as an insult. Just funny that you make me think of the character.

[Volourn]

Can't be insulted (yet) since I don't recognize the name; but I'm sure it isn't meant as flattery. L0LZ

 

P.S. lets' stick on topic and not discuss posters if at all possible. This is about Monsieur Carradine's sad demise.

[Gfted1]

Thai police: Carradine death may be accidental

 

Jun 5, 10:18 AM (ET)

 

By MICHAEL CASEY

 

BANGKOK (AP) - The body of American actor David Carradine, best known for the 1970s TV series "Kung Fu," was found in a hotel room closet with a rope tied to his neck and genitals, and his death may have been caused by accidental suffocation, Thai police said Friday.

 

The 72-year-old actor's body was discovered Thursday in his luxury suite at Bangkok's Swissotel Nai Lert Park Hotel. Police initially said they suspected suicide, though Carradine's associates had questioned that theory and authorities later said no suicide note was found in his room.

 

Police Lt. Gen. Worapong Chewprecha told reporters that Carradine was found with a rope tied around his genitals and another rope around his neck.

 

"The two ropes were tied together," he said. "It is unclear whether he committed suicide or not or he died of suffocation or heart failure."

 

Thai police completed an autopsy on Carradine on Friday. But Police Col. Somprasong Yenthuam, superintendent of the Lumpini police station, which is handling the case, said results would not be ready for at least three weeks because the cause of death was unclear. He called the time lag "normal."

 

Dr. Nanthana Sirisap, director of Chulalongkorn Hospital's Autopsy Center, told reporters that the autopsy was conducted because of the "unusual circumstances surrounding Carradine's death," but did not elaborate.

 

Police Lt. Teerapop Luanseng had said Thursday that Carradine's body was found "naked, hanging in a closet," and that police at the time suspected suicide.

 

But one of Carradine's managers dismissed the theory.

 

"All we can say is, we know David would never have committed suicide," said Tiffany Smith of Binder & Associates, his management company. "We're just waiting for them to finish the investigation and find out what really happened. He really appreciated everything life has to give ... and that's not something David would ever do to himself."

 

Celebrity blogs and social networking Web sites were abuzz with news of Carradine's death, which was one of the most popular topics Friday on Twitter along with the Air France crash.

 

Some Twitter users expressed sadness at his death and others theorized that Carradine died attempting a sex act known as auto-erotic asphyxiation - cutting off oxygen to the brain for sexual arousal.

 

The practice is said to result in a form of giddiness and euphoria - similar to alcohol or drug intoxication - that enhances the sexual experience.

 

Carradine had flown to Thailand last week and began work on a film titled "Stretch" two days before his death, Smith said. He had several other projects lined up after the action film, which was being directed by Charles De Meaux.

 

Carradine was in good spirits when he left the U.S. for Thailand on May 29 to work on "Stretch," Smith said.

 

"David was excited to do it and excited to be a part of it," she said by phone from Beverly Hills.

 

Filming began Tuesday, she said, adding that the crew was devastated by Carradine's death and did not wish to speak publicly about it for the time being.

 

Monica Donati, a spokesman for the French film company MK2, which was making "Stretch," said in statement from Paris that the film crew in Bangkok was "clearly shocked" by Carradine's death but would finish shooting. Carradine only had three more days of filming left in Bangkok, she said.

 

Aurelio Giraudo, the hotel's general manager, said Carradine checked into the hotel May 31 and he last saw him June 3. He said Carradine chatted with staff and even played piano a few nights in the lobby as well as flute which the "guests really enjoyed."

 

"I was a fan. I had a very nice talk with him when he checked in," Giraudo told The Associated Press. "He was very much a person full of life. I mentioned to him that I had seen (the movie) "Crank" with my family and that was the last smile he gave me."

 

Giraudo said a chambermaid discovered Carradine's body, adding that she knocked and entered after there was no response. Police arrived shortly thereafter.

 

Somprasong said there was no evidence there was anyone else in the room at the time of Carradine's death.

 

Hmm, well maybe it was just masturbation gone wrong.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Gfted1

[Hurlshort]

I read that men tend to kill themselves with guns, while women prefer sleeping pills. The rationale is that women think about the mess they will leave behind and feel bad for whoever has to clean it.

 

I'm not sure about cowardice, I imagine it takes a ton of willpower, but I think it is usually a selfish act. Life sucks, get over it, we all have crap to deal with. If t was a suicide, his family is going to second guess themselves for years thinking if they could have prevented this.

 

We had a student at a local school commit suicide recently. Another student almost attempted the same thing, but his mom followed him because she was worried and stopped him from stepping on the train tracks. Good to hear a parent is paying attention to their child's mental health!

[Gorgon]

Since when did anyone care what 'twitter users' said. Seems like an awfully convenient way to sneak what the editor would have thrown out back in. I wonder if this is widespread trend.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Can't be insulted (yet) since I don't recognize the name; but I'm sure it isn't meant as flattery. L0LZ

Read the graphic novel Watchmen, Volourn. I think you might get a kick out of it.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Thai police: Carradine death may be accidental

 

Jun 5, 10:18 AM (ET)

 

By MICHAEL CASEY

 

BANGKOK (AP) - The body of American actor David Carradine, best known for the 1970s TV series "Kung Fu," was found in a hotel room closet with a rope tied to his neck and genitals, and his death may have been caused by accidental suffocation, Thai police said Friday.

 

Hmm, well maybe it was just masturbation gone wrong.

 

Arg! Couldn't he have just bought some Viagra?

 

This kind of puts a kink in the suicide theory. I mean, you REALLY have to hate yourself if you have to hang your junk along with your neck. I'm guessing this was either some Kung Fu technique gone horribly wrong or some scum bag did this to him.

Edited June 5, 2009 by GreasyDogMeat

[Gorgon]

Well there is at least the possibility that he died happy.

[alanschu]

Don't get me started on helmets,a nd seatbelts being madatory as laws. It's lame.

 

Meh, I think it makes sense in a society that seems to value public health care.

[Walsingham]

If the Bangkok cops announced it was suicide then you can be almost certain it wasn't. Who kills themselves in a cupboard, anyway?

 

I'd also like to complain about all the insensitive rubbish being spouted about suicides being cowards. I've had to deal with several suicidal people. They weren't weak, and they weren't cowards. They were in a ****ty place, and it got too much for them. I've rarely heard anything so arrogant or lacking in compassion as to claim the high ground over them. All I can say is that you should count yourselves lucky you've never felt that way.

 

I had people try to kill me, on several occasions, and I appreciate life more richly for it. I'd try and help anyone who felt like killing themselves in the same way I'd help anyone in danger of losing their life. I've made some awesome friends in consequence of that, and I'd encourage anyone else to do the same.

[mr insomniac]

Hundreds honor David Carradine at LA funeral

 

They gathered more than a week after Carradine, 72, was found hanging in a Bangkok hotel room on June 4. Thai authorities continue to investigate his death. A statement released Thursday by a private pathologist said suicide had been ruled out as a cause of death.

 

Bold text highlighted by me.

 

RIP Mr. Carradine.

[Walsingham]

Intriguing story. But no-one is going to find out the truth of it now. If the cops have it in lockdown, that's the end of the matter. Not a very healthy city, Bangkok. And I don't mean the air pollution.

[Gorgon]

The cops are certainly corrupt, but I'd wager they do their job unless paid not to. This is surely a high profile case for them now and they can't sit still on it.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Gorgon

[Walsingham]

The cops are certainly corrupt, but I'd wager they do their job unless paid not to. This is surely a high profile case for them now and they can't sit still on it.

 

In my experience prosecutions for anything other than misdemeanours is a totally politicised process in Thailand. Still more so in Bangkok. It's nothing at all like what you might imagine police life is like. One writer quite neatly summarised a Thai policeman as a 'profit centre'. but I think it comes as much down to 'face'. Crimes that are not paid for properly in cash are an insult and will get targetted with extreme prejudice.

[Nihilus5078]

Suicide is illegal if you must know, unless your Adolf Hitler, Jimi Hendrix, or Kurt Cobain.

 

Current status: Adolf Hitler

 

Current status: Jimi Hendrix

 

Current status: Kurt Cobain

 

Current status: David Carradine

 

I wonder who will be the next . I hope it's Miley Cyrus , bah just joking. RIP David Carradine

Edited June 17, 2009 by Nihilus5078