FO: NV

[Blinzler]

You know what kind of funny I'd love to see in Fallout ?

 

His kind.

[Gromnir]

"The Fallout setting is supposed to be pulpy, and that can be done with a more sensible style and wit than Fallout 2 managed."

 

you know, the Faithful likes to mentions the influence o' german expressionist movies on fallout setting... but somehow the trashy and campy b-movie sci-fi stuff from the 50's seems to gets forgotten. "sensible" and "wit" may not be best ways to describe Them! or The Brain that wouldn't Die. Gromnir actual ain't a fan o' Monty-Python, but am gonna have to observe that there is more than a little tongue-in-cheek with fo setting that kinda goes beyond "wit" and "sensible." Camp can be witty, but it sure as heck ain't sensible.

 

what genuine mystified Gromnir were the faithful complaining 'bout the Look o' fo3 stuff such as power armour and architecture n' such. honestly, fo3 does a much better job o' achieving the art deco look that were partial inspired by the german expressionists. goes to nma and codex and you will hears 'em talk 'bout Metropolis and Nosferatu. watch Metroplis and then ask if fo3 power armour or fo1 power armour would "fit" in a Fritz Lang film.

 

am also thinking that road warrior had more than a little influence... and am not sure if "wit" and "sensible" is the best words to describe that franchise.

 

regardless, Gromnir wouldn't mind if developers took selves less serious in recognition o' the setting's roots... Devil Girl from Mars and Reptillicus. 'course, we don't mind a more serious approach, but we would have to be woeful ignorant to suggest that silly humor is inappropriate in fo.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Slowtrain]

silly

 

1. weak-minded or lacking good sense; stupid or foolish: a silly writer.

2. absurd; ridiculous; irrational: a silly idea.

funny

 

1. providing fun; causing amusement or laughter; amusing; comical: a funny remark; a funny person.

Thre's a difference. Fallout 3 spends way too much time in the silly end of the spectrum, imo.

[Aram]

I would say that Fallout 2 spent more time being intentionally silly than Fallout 3.

 

And often, it relied on the very worst sort of humor. Worse even then puns. Family Guy style humor.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Aram

[Slowtrain]

I would say that Fallout 2 spent more time being intentionally silly than Fallout 3.

 

 

I read that a lot these days about Fallout 2. I'm not sure how much truth there is to it, or how much it is just the thing to say atm.

 

 

I didn't play a lot of Fallout 2 (compared to Fallout) so my memory of it is not very good. The areas that I do remember best: Klamath, The Den, Redding, I don't recall as being silly or having any particular silliness associated with them.

 

Perhaps some examples from those who remember Fallout 2 better than I do would be in order.

 

 

Regardless, my statement about FO3 being silly isn't really intended to be taken as a comparison to either Fallout 1 or 2. Its just a commentary on Fallout 3. Games, movies, books, all can be predicated on what is fundamentally a silly idea (a guy dressing up like a bat and beating up an evil guy dressed up like a clown), But it does not follow that the treatment of the idea by the writer director, designer has to be silly. One can take a silly idea and treat it quite seriously to great effect.

Edited May 23, 2009 by CrashGirl

[bhlaab]

I would say that Fallout 2 spent more time being intentionally silly than Fallout 3.

 

And often, it relied on the very worst sort of humor. Worse even then puns. Family Guy style humor.

 

It's not the silliness that's the problem. Fallout 3 probably could have been a lot sillier IMO.

 

That's what I was talking about, Fallout 2 felt right with its general atmosphere (a good mix of silly & serious) but a lot of times the individual jokes themselves fell flat because of its Family Guy style riffs.

 

The problem with Fallout 3's humor is that many of the punchlines were either labored over to the point of being watered down or botched in the delivery. Plus there's a tendency to go "too big" with their gags like with Liberty Prime. Talk about one joke that was sort of smile-worthy the first time it was told drawn out and repeated dozens of times. They also tried to make the atmosphere less pulp and more depressing, which makes the silliness a bit harder to swallow.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the Fallout games tend to be at their best when they're being charming, not when they are specifically going for laughs.

[Aram]

I didn't play a lot of Fallout 2 (compared to Fallout) so my memory of it is not very good. The areas that I do remember best: Klamath, The Den, Redding, I don't recall as being silly or having any particular silliness associated with them.

Perhaps some examples from those who remember Fallout 2 better than I do would be in order.

The amount of silliness in the game actually seems to vary by which area you're in--apparently because different people were assigned to different areas.

 

Take, just as an example, Broken Hills. There's an intelligent scorpion that knows morse code you can play chess with, and a talking plant just outside which tells you how to beat him. (talking animals are oddly common in Fallout 2--there's a superintelligent rat in Gecko named Brain who's trying to take over the world...yeah.) There's a super mutant that forces you to have implied rough BDSM sex with him if you lose at arm wrestling. A super mutant couple is having an argument about one of them looking at porn all the time and they're not having sex. If you walk through an invisible part of a wall you can find a direct reference to some pulp hero who's apparently been asleep since before the war and you get an exp reward for "finding yet another pop culture reference."

 

That's just from a fairly distant memory of a fairly innocent little town. I don't even have the stamina to go through New Reno. Becoming a fluffer or a porn star at the porn studio is probably the highlight there. In any fifteen minutes of gameplay you can probably find as many lewd jokes, cultural references, and blows with a sledgehammer to the fourth wall.

[bhlaab]

I didn't play a lot of Fallout 2 (compared to Fallout) so my memory of it is not very good. The areas that I do remember best: Klamath, The Den, Redding, I don't recall as being silly or having any particular silliness associated with them.

Perhaps some examples from those who remember Fallout 2 better than I do would be in order.

The amount of silliness in the game actually seems to vary by which area you're in--apparently because different people were assigned to different areas.

 

Take, just as an example, Broken Hills. There's an intelligent scorpion that knows morse code you can play chess with, and a talking plant just outside which tells you how to beat him. (talking animals are oddly common in Fallout 2--there's a superintelligent rat in Gecko named Brain who's trying to take over the world...yeah.) There's a super mutant that forces you to have implied rough BDSM sex with him if you lose at arm wrestling. A super mutant couple is having an argument about one of them looking at porn all the time and they're not having sex. If you walk through an invisible part of a wall you can find a direct reference to some pulp hero who's apparently been asleep since before the war and you get an exp reward for "finding yet another pop culture reference."

 

That's just from a fairly distant memory of a fairly innocent little town. I don't even have the stamina to go through New Reno. Becoming a fluffer or a porn star at the porn studio is probably the highlight there. In any fifteen minutes of gameplay you can probably find as many lewd jokes, cultural references, and blows with a sledgehammer to the fourth wall.

 

Not all of those are terrible, only the pop culture references and talking animals stand out to me as bad. Nothing in New Reno struck me as particularly canon-shattering, either.

 

I quite liked Broken Hills, actually. Take away the talking plant and intelligent scorpion and you have an interesting idea of super mutants trying to eke out comfortable lives after the death of the master. I liked the uneasy race relations between the mutants and the humans, and I liked how some mutants were still master sympathizers and explained their ideaologies to you. It was a great peek behind the curtain of the idea of the "bad guy" that you don't often see in games. The one thing you listed, the arguing mutant couple, is part of that. The BDSM guy, maybe not so much, but it's revealed in a pretty well-done 'grey area' quest that he's a bit of a bastard anyway.

[Aram]

I didn't say the good stuff wasn't good.

[bhlaab]

I didn't say the good stuff wasn't good.

 

Yeah but Fallout 2's got an increasingly bad reputation so I need to jump in whenever someone is talking ill about it on the internet

[Humodour]

I didn't say the good stuff wasn't good.

 

Yeah but Fallout 2's got an increasingly bad reputation so I need to jump in whenever someone is talking ill about it on the internet

 

Fallout 2 has a bad reputation? First I've heard of it.

[cronicler]

M rated games FTW.

 

I just wish we had "much more" decent M rated games that got the rating instead of being slapped an "M" for breasts galore. I just can't understand when games with gallons of blood and body-parts, 43 phragraph long monologues which only contain derivatives of F words and barely enough clothing to cover a "Japanese" censor strip get a "T" while the slightest "adult" content like politics, non porno sex, social issues are chased by pitchforks...

 

Ps: Is there a way to tone down the auto language corrector other than using leetspeak?

Pps: Krezack, I mean to ask but keep forgetting this, Where is your Picture from?

Edited May 23, 2009 by cronicler

[Aristes]

The picture is from get smart.

 

As for 'M' rated games, give me a break. 'M' means it has violence, language, or nudity. The 'M' might stand for 'mature,' but it usually doesn't mean it. Hey, I like action flicks as much as the next guy. I like seeing hot chics kicking ass too. But asking for adult themes to be treated in an adult manner doesn't lead you to most of the 'M' rated games on the market.

[Wombat]

It's been pretty clear to me that we're actually very much aligned in our essential views, Wombat. Hell, we even seem to be fans of a certain Russian novelist.

Actually, that part is in the list of my dirty little secrets, which wasn't meant to be "publicized" on the net.

 

As for FO 2 humor, some people, indeed, found it is bit off the mark. Considering the background information about the development of FO2, I suspect that not small amount of caffeine contributed to "the issue." In any case, IIRC, a designer admitted that they used too many pop culture references in it.

[Kjarista]

I would say that Fallout 2 spent more time being intentionally silly than Fallout 3.

 

 

I read that a lot these days about Fallout 2. I'm not sure how much truth there is to it, or how much it is just the thing to say atm.

 

 

I didn't play a lot of Fallout 2 (compared to Fallout) so my memory of it is not very good. The areas that I do remember best: Klamath, The Den, Redding, I don't recall as being silly or having any particular silliness associated with them.

 

Perhaps some examples from those who remember Fallout 2 better than I do would be in order.

 

 

The biggest problem with FO2 for me were the special encounters, which were out of character and out of the gameworld. Encounters like the Monty Python Bridgekeeper, Star Trek space shuttle, and many others were, to me, inappropriate for an RPG.

 

I don't mind humor, even a bit of silly humor, but it can be done in character, and consistent with the gameworld.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Kjarista

[Slowtrain]

I'd love to see the craftable weapons made a little less silly.

 

I mean an enormous Deathclaw gauntlet made out of a severed Deathclaw hand and a flaming sword made out of a motorcyle blade are good for the LuLZ. And they are both effective weapons. But something a little less absurd would be appreciated.

 

 

Also, if you are going to include a sword again (which is fine), can it please sling across the back rather than at the hip. It would feel a little less like a swords and sorcery thing that way.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I think that would be dependent on the size of the blade. If the blade is at short sword/machete length it would make sense to have it at the hip. If the blade is no-dachi sized then it should be on the back.

[Blinzler]

I think that would be dependent on the size of the blade. If the blade is at short sword/machete length it would make sense to have it at the hip. If the blade is no-dachi sized then it should be on the back.

 

Never having handled a sword (unless you count the stick turned imaginary sword from a long long time ago) and applying the dreaded "common sense" I'd imagine carrying a sword strapped to your back or backpack is more conductive to hiking across the nuclear wasteland and ruin scape.

Having it hanging on your side displays it prominently but is likely to get it in your way while running, caught in brambles etc.

 

Back to the humor discussion of Fallout 2.

Yes there was a fair share of stayed-in-office-another-night-and-live-on-caffeine type of humor in there. And I welcomed it.

Let's be honest here - these were always OPTIONS in a vast variety of dialogue choices to choose from. I for one welcome more options rather then outright saying/demanding it doesn't fit, cut it. If you feel that way, fine - I can accept that opinion. But I don't see why I should have to live with your opinion. If you don't want it, just don't click the damn thing. There plenty other that should satisfy your tastes.

 

Comparing Fallout 3's writing here I have to say Bethesdas approach often found me looking back jealously.

There's various dialogue options in Fallout 3 that just seemed lackluster and not hitting the right tone - when choosing some [science] option I often found the choice of words didn't reflect it and only by the tag in front I was able to identify which skill represents what option.

Fallout 2 was very much more obvious (in a good way) there.

Besides which Fallout 2 seemed to offer vastly more to read then Fallout 3 does.

All of which is not to say Fallout 3 is a complete loss. I really liked Moira's questline and her voice-overs really hit the tone right.

[Wombat]

Unfortunately, for some people, too many pop culture references break the atmosphere. So, I guess the opinions of both sides are mutually exclusive. The same thing goes to NPC design. Some people, concluding myself, find the feel of isolation is one of the important factor in FO while some other people may like to see more emotional/dramatic interaction with NPCs. I guess these are one of the cases, where, the final decisions have to be in the hands of the designers.

[TwinkieGorilla]

Comparing Fallout 3's writing here I have to say Bethesdas approach often found me looking back jealously.

There's various dialogue options in Fallout 3 that just seemed lackluster and not hitting the right tone - when choosing some [science] option I often found the choice of words didn't reflect it and only by the tag in front I was able to identify which skill represents what option.

Fallout 2 was very much more obvious (in a good way) there.

Besides which Fallout 2 seemed to offer vastly more to read then Fallout 3 does.

All of which is not to say Fallout 3 is a complete loss. I really liked Moira's questline and her voice-overs really hit the tone right.

 

 

hehe. you sound like a more polite version of me (long time no see btw).

[Blinzler]

Comparing Fallout 3's writing here I have to say Bethesdas approach often found me looking back jealously.

There's various dialogue options in Fallout 3 that just seemed lackluster and not hitting the right tone - when choosing some [science] option I often found the choice of words didn't reflect it and only by the tag in front I was able to identify which skill represents what option.

Fallout 2 was very much more obvious (in a good way) there.

Besides which Fallout 2 seemed to offer vastly more to read then Fallout 3 does.

All of which is not to say Fallout 3 is a complete loss. I really liked Moira's questline and her voice-overs really hit the tone right.

 

 

hehe. you sound like a more polite version of me (long time no see btw).

I'm still around. Mainly on the modding forum on the Bethboard and as Editor on Planet Fallout. You know, the guys who "softball" interviews, to quote BN.

I'm fully expecting to see more people from before the release of FO3 once NV get's closer to release and/or it's own forum. Here's to hoping for more interesting discussions.

[CoM_Solaufein]

I'd love to see the craftable weapons made a little less silly.

 

I mean an enormous Deathclaw gauntlet made out of a severed Deathclaw hand and a flaming sword made out of a motorcyle blade are good for the LuLZ. And they are both effective weapons. But something a little less absurd would be appreciated.

 

 

Also, if you are going to include a sword again (which is fine), can it please sling across the back rather than at the hip. It would feel a little less like a swords and sorcery thing that way.

Crafting weapons shouldn't be the only thing you can do. They could do crafting armor as well.

[TwinkieGorilla]

*yawn*

 

 

jeez guys, maybe you shoulda waited a bit longer to leak the news.

[bhlaab]

*yawn*

 

 

jeez guys, maybe you shoulda waited a bit longer to leak the news.

 

no, for now I'm quite content with the magical version of this game that I've invented in my head

[Gorgon]

Are we there yet.