Nightshape Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Which is a pretty sad state of the current WRPG industry. RPG combat *should* be compelling in and of itself. It just hasn't really been in the last few years except for Magical Volo and Hades. And Gabs re: FO3. It could be worse... JRPG's have never known compelling combat mechanics, so frankly I'll take WRPG's and think myself lucky. Sure it could be better... But it could be worse. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Also, whoever was arguing about outsourcing and stuff... whatever. If you want to outsource your art to a second world country and get poorly optimized meshes with weaksauce normal and spec maps, go for it. Your level designers who ignore aesthetics won't care. Don't be a tard. If you're not willing to converse about the topic, that's fine. EA outsource's alot of artwork, I know for a fact they did this with burnout paradise, I also know that if an asset wasn't of a high enough quality it was ditched. I'm merely commenting on trends and how companies work... Obsidian as an independent developer isn't likely to work the same way as an internal EA developer. "Your level designers who ignore aesthetics won't care." I wouldn't say that about a single level designer I work with. Infact I know the extents they're going to. You got served And when did Obsidian start hiring retards? Seriously... What's with the attitude? Edit: Does Onyx support live update? Edited January 14, 2009 by Nightshape I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 "Ashley clammed up early," She talked to me throughout the game. *shrug* I chewed her out for unprofessional conduct (gossip about her superior officer). Heh, sounds like she's also a plausible character. You show her that unprofessional behaviour is not tolerated and what do you know...she keeps her mouth shut and does her job. Don't blame bad writing for the character actually acting in a believable way. Don't tell her to act professional and reprimand her when she isn't, and maybe she'll behave differently. I didn't say anything about bad writing. I say whatever I think my character would say, otherwise you're just metagaming instead of roleplaying. A better design would be to end the possibility of romance, but still have her talk about other things so she's a more interesting character. Sorry. You tell your soldier to shut up about unprofessional comments and reprimand her for it, she's going to fall in line whenever you're talking with her. Ashley deciding not to talk with you both makes sense from the perspective of her duties as a soldier in response to a commanding officer giving her an order, and the fact that she might just think you're a **** for snapping at her. Given the women I know, it almost makes sense. It's your fault if you expected Ashley to behave in a different way than her very plausible and almost expected way in response to what you said. But given you seem to hate that things get "forced" upon you, you probably were too obtuse to realize that the consequences of your actions. For the record, your superbly well written Carth responds the same way if you tell him to shut his pie hole early on too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) When your boss tells you that you talk too much, you talk less. When you're a soldier and your superior tells you that you talk too much, you shut the **** up. Moreover, we're talking about a character who expects that any complaint about her conduct will be held against her for a long time. It makes sense to me. And when did Obsidian start hiring retards? Seriously... What's with the attitude? I think you're holding him up to a model of behavior that many of us willfully and frequently fail to meet. Including yourself. Edited January 14, 2009 by Maria Caliban "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 And when did Obsidian start hiring retards? Seriously... What's with the attitude? I think you're holding him up to a model of behavior that many of us willfully and frequently fail to meet. Including yourself. On account of his dev status, I expect a certain level of professional conduct (I've always seen it from any other developer here, and I've seen them in tighter spots). Yup, I fall short of it, but I'm here as fan, a person who respects what's being created by these folks. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Nightshape, I always thought we wanted our devs to joke around with us, not produce PR essays. I think the level design argument just got your thorns up. Also, for all the uninformed JRPG bashing that goes around here (half of which IS justified), there've been many JRPGs with more complex annd interesting combat than KOTOR. If your combat is crappier than combat where people stand on opposing sides of a tiny little patch of grass and take five minutes to summon creatures, you have a problem. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristes Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't understand what your beef is with MM. He seems like a good guy. Why can't he goof around like the rest of us? Anyhow, if I make fun of someone, I get a "talkin' to" by the mods. At least I didn't call anyone a "tard." Nightshape, you doofus, chill the hell out with the retard thing already. ...And if you call me a retard, I swear -- one of these days -- right in the kisser! Well, either that or I'll laugh. Who knows? ...And I can see his point at any rate. You said that art and level design are different jobs, which seems faily established, but it seems equally established that good level design and good art go hand in hand. The point seems to be that the level designer might rebel at inferior art because he sees it as part of his effort at creating a good level design. Isn't that a fair assessment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Nightshape, I always thought we wanted our devs to joke around with us, not produce PR essays. I think the level design argument just got your thorns up. Bit of both, they represent the company, but they can have a laugh too... I was actually trying to enter into a serious converstaion with him... I felt like he dismissed me as mentioning something unrelated... In a way it is related, it effects all of us gamers and dev's. If your combat is crappier than combat where people stand on opposing sides of a tiny little patch of grass and take five minutes to summon creatures, you have a problem. A problem, you've forgot to make a game to go with the story more like. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I was actually trying to enter into a serious converstaion with him Yeah, I think he didn't want to get into it unfortunately. Clearly, he hates you and will destroy your favourite chocolate brands. A problem, you've forgot to make a game to go with the story more like. Honestly, I think KOTOR's stupid combat was a direct consequence of trying to bring NWN combat into a behind-the-shoulder 3D perspective. They wanted realtime/pause, they wanted lots of abilities, theyw anted direct control of party, but they wanted it all done in a camera which makes it very difficult to select things and effect large-scale abilities. As a result combat is a clusterfest, your abilities are mostly confined to smaller areas of effect, the difficulty is ramped down to comical, and so forth. Also, of course, the fact that you had blasters for half the game, and gun combat just didn't work with that system and that camera. At least ME, as far as I know, actually catered to guns. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I was actually trying to enter into a serious converstaion with him Yeah, I think he didn't want to get into it unfortunately. Clearly, he hates you and will destroy your favourite chocolate brands. A problem, you've forgot to make a game to go with the story more like. Honestly, I think KOTOR's stupid combat was a direct consequence of trying to bring NWN combat into a behind-the-shoulder 3D perspective. They wanted realtime/pause, they wanted lots of abilities, theyw anted direct control of party, but they wanted it all done in a camera which makes it very difficult to select things and effect large-scale abilities. As a result combat is a clusterfest, your abilities are mostly confined to smaller areas of effect, the difficulty is ramped down to comical, and so forth. Also, of course, the fact that you had blasters for half the game, and gun combat just didn't work with that system and that camera. At least ME, as far as I know, actually catered to guns. ME was nothing but guns. Sure you could bash but you might as well blow that guys brains out because bash was pathetic. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I was actually trying to enter into a serious converstaion with him Yeah, I think he didn't want to get into it unfortunately. Clearly, he hates you and will destroy your favourite chocolate brands. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 developers is sometimes more insightful and honest once they lose cool. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 "a person who respects what's being created by these folks." You show respect by calling someone a retard? WOW! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 ME2 needs better melee and enemy variety. Especially that last one, because I got seriously sick of fighting rachni, zombies and soldiers with guns (95% of the enemies). "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 ME2 doesn't need 'better melee'. Why melee when you have guns? It's silly for a futuristic setting. If anything, minor changes to melee is all that's required since the combat is gun and special power focused, anyways. More varied enemies the better, of course, cna't argue about that. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 ME was nothing but guns. Sure you could bash but you might as well blow that guys brains out because bash was pathetic. I'm not a violent woman, but there are few things more satisfying than running up to a krogan battle master, bashing his head in, and then pouring assult rifle fire into him as lies helpless at your feet. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I was actually trying to enter into a serious converstaion with him Yeah, I think he didn't want to get into it unfortunately. Clearly, he hates you and will destroy your favourite chocolate brands. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) "a person who respects what's being created by these folks." You show respect by calling someone a retard? WOW! No, I've respected the works they've released as a collective group of people working on projects. There is alot of talent at Obsidian, some may even say some of the best, but clearly it seems they're just trying to fill seats. Why should I respect him? I've absolutely no reason to respect him, he won't even pay attention to facts about art outsourcing in the industry, he's not really been involved in anything I've played or enjoied. I want to respect him, but how can I when he reacts the way he has? Remind me Volo? What sets him apart from yourself? After all, I can bring myself to agree with you if I actually agree with you, and everyone knows *Nightshape dislikes Volourn* . Edited January 15, 2009 by Pidesco Some things are just too much I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 ME was nothing but guns. Sure you could bash but you might as well blow that guys brains out because bash was pathetic. I'm not a violent woman, but there are few things more satisfying than running up to a krogan battle master, bashing his head in, and then pouring assult rifle fire into him as lies helpless at your feet. Why am I aroused? I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 "Remind me Volo? What sets him apart from yourself?" You didn't claim to respect me. You claimed to respect him (and all of Obsidian) yet called him a retard. "After all, I can bring myself to agree with you if I actually agree with you, and everyone knows I think the best part of you slid down your mom's leg . " Nah. If you want to get gross, the best part of me slid down YOUR mom's leg. Stop the grossness as you can't outgross me. Trust me on that. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Remind me why people bother to argue with Volourn again? "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 He shouldn't have insulted my mother. He should stick to the subject next time. P.S. ME2 will be awesome. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Derailed thread is derailed. P.S. Of course it will. Things can only get better... right? "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoM_Solaufein Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 This thread is falling towards closure. War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is StrengthBaldur's Gate moddingTeamBGBaldur's Gate modder/community leaderBaldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition beta testerBaldur's Gate 2 - Enhanced Edition beta tester Icewind Dale - Enhanced Edition beta tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Haha, and I wasn't even the one derailing it. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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