Bush's Iraq-Afghan farewell tour marred by dissent

[Rosbjerg]

Can we at least agree that bickering over whose ancestors were more virtuous and helpful to the rest of civilization is pointless and irrelevant to pretty much everything?

 

 

A little..

[Gorth]

Can we at least agree that bickering over whose ancestors were more virtuous and helpful to the rest of civilization is pointless and irrelevant to pretty much everything?

No, my dad is stronger than *Your* dad!

 

I was wondering if I should tease Volourn a bit... If there hadn't been any European colonialism, there would have been no Kanada and no Bioware. Beat that!

 

Back on topic. All this territorial peeing, and that amongst us, here. Just imagine how much emotial conflict people who have been living in a decade+ of war must be feeling, either for or against something. A pair of thrown shoes? It sure beats car bombings and assassinations when it comes to showing your dislike of somebody

 

Edit: Just imagine if somebody had thrown a pair of shoes at Lincoln, JFK or Martin Luther King instead of shooting them.

[Walsingham]

I think the obvious next step is to point out it's rude to throw shoes, and let him go. Would certainly make a big improvement over Saddam's Iraq.

 

Actually, it makes me laugh to think how many fascist thugs the world over are going "Shoes! You mean it's that easy? Gawd, Steve, how come you didn't use shoes in the plan?" And they sweep all the bomb parts into the bin, and whap down the sandals.

[Volourn]

"I was wondering if I should tease Volourn a bit... If there hadn't been any European colonialism, there would have been no Kanada and no Bioware. Beat that!"

 

I could live with both not exisiting. I maanged to live 20 years of my life without BIO exisiting, and biologically I'm French (*puke*) so I'd have ties to Europe either way.

[Gorth]

I think the obvious next step is to point out it's rude to throw shoes, and let him go. Would certainly make a big improvement over Saddam's Iraq.

 

Actually, it makes me laugh to think how many fascist thugs the world over are going "Shoes! You mean it's that easy? Gawd, Steve, how come you didn't use shoes in the plan?" And they sweep all the bomb parts into the bin, and whap down the sandals.

Just imagine the nightmare this is going to create for airline security. People have to check-in their shoes in the future and can now only board the plane bare footed. Breaking News: Plane hijacked, pilot threatened with a pair of shoes!

[taks]

Actually, it makes me laugh to think how many fascist thugs the world over are going "Shoes! You mean it's that easy? Gawd, Steve, how come you didn't use shoes in the plan?" And they sweep all the bomb parts into the bin, and whap down the sandals.

particularly given that they x-ray your shoes at the airport these days.

 

taks

[Killian Kalthorne]

I am still contemplating moving to Kanada, Taks, with all the crap going on here. With the bailouts bankrupting this country even more it might just be a prudent thing. The number one thing that pisses me off about the US, and this isn't just limited to federal and state government, is that the vast majority of people do not take personal responsibility and accountability for their actions. They aren't fiscally responsible whatsoever and don't live within their means, and those with money just lend it out willy-nilly to these people then scream for the government to pay it back when those who shouldn't have gotten the money aren't able to pay it back.

 

Our government and we as a people need to live within our means. One thing I like to see placed as a law is that we force Congress and the White House, year after year, to right up a budget that cannot have a deficit whatsoever. If there is a deficit, the difference is taken out of the paychecks of Congress, the White House, and their various staff. We need to stop taking loans from other countries, and we need to stop loaning and giving money to other countries.

[Tigranes]

particularly given that they x-ray your shoes at the airport these days.

 

Ah yes, one of the funnier parts of my brief visit to the US.

 

That, and those airport security guards who fondle you then look at you like your skin is made of Terrorism .

 

Anyway, I read the OP then jumped to this page. Am I too late to catch the Real Debate Train? I'm Asian so whichever side wins, I lose

[julianw]

Nationalism is evil. US-bashing or Europe-bashing should become pointless soon enough anyway. The world is eventually going to merge into one global community. The election of a half-white and half-black guy name Barrack Hussein Obama (whether you agree with his policies or not) might just have been the turning point in human history when nationalism and racism begin to die out.

 

On the shoes incident, I will cut the guy some slack since apparently he had lost relatives in the Iraqi War. He should have never been allowed in the press conference in the first place.

[Volourn]

"I am still contemplating moving to Kanada, Taks, with all the crap going on here. With the bailouts bankrupting this country even more it might just be a prudent thing. The number one thing that pisses me off about the US, and this isn't just limited to federal and state government, is that the vast majority of people do not take personal responsibility and accountability for their actions. They aren't fiscally responsible whatsoever and don't live within their means, and those with money just lend it out willy-nilly to these people then scream for the government to pay it back when those who shouldn't have gotten the money aren't able to pay it back."

 

Um. Sounds like Kanada.

 

 

"Nationalism is evil."

 

So is extremism like your quote.

 

 

"The world is eventually going to merge into one global community. "

 

L0L Maybe in 1000 years when aliens come to wipe us out.

 

 

"The election of a half-white and half-black guy name Barrack Hussein Obama (whether you agree with his policies or not) might just have been the turning point in human history when nationalism and racism begin to die out."

 

O RLY? When a a multicultural man in a multicultural country is voted in all racism will die it? Give me a break. It is NOT surprising AT ALL that a multicutural person won an election in a multicutural country. Balcks have been winning elections in the US for awhile. It was just a matter of time when one won the Big One.

 

Come to me when someone of a minority race actually wins an election IN AN ACTUAL RACIST/BIGOTED COUNTRY.

[Walsingham]

Nationalism is evil. US-bashing or Europe-bashing should become pointless soon enough anyway. The world is eventually going to merge into one global community. The election of a half-white and half-black guy name Barrack Hussein Obama (whether you agree with his policies or not) might just have been the turning point in human history when nationalism and racism begin to die out.

 

On the shoes incident, I will cut the guy some slack since apparently he had lost relatives in the Iraqi War. He should have never been allowed in the press conference in the first place.

 

Hold on, fellah. A lot of people lost relatives in the war. Surely they're entirely appropriate people to have along to a press conference in a free country? I personally don't think it's appropriate to hurl shoes, but it's not much worse than the egging of politicians which happens in this country all the time.

[Killian Kalthorne]

At least he was flinging shoes and not grenades.

[Brdavs]

actually, no. their cultural beliefs are too deeply held, and not exactly universal enough to be force fed on everyone. they probably would have had to exterminate everyone to colonize the world. just an opinion, however, as i really don't know. i think, too, back in the days when colonization was going on, we of the caucasian ilk were much more expansionist than the rest, i.e., we were the only ones that really wanted to colonize the world. not so much because we were caucasian, just because that's how our cultures evolved, by taking over everyone else.

 

taks

You might wanna read up on say history of Spain there buddy. And heck, of every noncaucasian race. And if you think that it would have made any difference for a native american to be subjugated to genocide from caucasioans or asians because our way of life was morea easily "force fed" on them you`re living in a friggin fairytale. I thought I`ve seen some funny stuff coming from you, but the theory that Our historical and colonial practices were the ultimate in "user friendlyness" and are there for justified cos the ""****" or "sand-n`s" would have done far worse by them" no doubt takes THE cake. DO you actually BELIEVE the things that come out of your mouth? The prospect of that is what is frightening me the most.

 

The only thing "deeply rooted" here s your biggotry and superiority complex. Of your race, of your religion and of your nation. As the need arises. It`s good comedy to see Americans crying "respect meh soveirnty" every time thoe. \doublefacepalm

 

So you`re right. You really really REALLY don`t know.

 

 

 

And since I`ll no doubt be branded a "Eurosnob" for not praying to the gods of liberty (for some) over the atlantic I`ll just say... if stating all the hypocracies of the western world is being a snob then surely this "patriotisim" on the other end of the spectrum is not much better than nazism. It hits almost the entire alphabet, from the sense of suppremacy in all areas, from cultural to the very valuation of life in accordance to a passport, to some divine "right" to impose your views and "order".

I mean christ.... everybody else are "too nationalistic", (phear the russians!) when they move an inch in that direction. But "patriotism", that`s all right. For (some of) us, atleast.

 

 

 

Edit: As to the incident... branding him an ingrate cos he would not have had the chance to do this under sadaam is cynisism beyond compare. I prefer to view this gesture and the support it generated in Iraq itself as a powerfull symbolic gesture. I don`t think it needs any special interpretation. It has te potential to become as cult as "yankee go home" lol.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Brdavs

[Volourn]

"It has te potential to become as cult as "yankee go home" lol."

 

Except he's one guy, and many Iraqis admonished him for it including Iraqi leaders.

[Walsingham]

Yeah, he is one guy. One guy from a VERY plural society. So you can pretend like he's speaking for all Iraqis if you like, but I'll take my view on what Iraqis want from their freely elected leaders.

[Morgoth]

Apparently security forces already abused Montasser al-Saidi (the guy who threw the shoe). Several ribs and his arm has been broken. Click

 

But Bush just smiles and talks about freedom and stuff.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Morgoth

[taks]

You might wanna read up on say history of Spain there buddy. And heck, of every noncaucasian race.

i was including spain. probably should have said "european" instead.

 

i'm not sure what the rest of your rant is and there's no way anything i said can be interpreted as racist. what you have said, however, could easily be interpreted as "moron."

 

taks

Edited December 16, 2008 by taks

[taks]

Apparently security forces already abused Montasser al-Saidi (the guy who threw the shoe). Several ribs and his arm has been broken. Click

 

But Bush just smiles and talks about freedom and stuff.

so what does the first comment have to do with the last? oh, yeah, you just don't have a clue. got it.

 

whether you like it or not, bush is the president of the US and threats are taken seriously. get taken down by half a dozen security forces and you're going to be hurt. same would have happened with any other leader of any country. in fact, had this guy done something to one of the middle-eastern leaders, he might not be around anymore.

 

taks

[Morgoth]

Apparently security forces already abused Montasser al-Saidi (the guy who threw the shoe). Several ribs and his arm has been broken. Click

 

But Bush just smiles and talks about freedom and stuff.

so what does the first comment have to do with the last? oh, yeah, you just don't have a clue. got it.

 

whether you like it or not, bush is the president of the US and threats are taken seriously. get taken down by half a dozen security forces and you're going to be hurt. same would have happened with any other leader of any country. in fact, had this guy done something to one of the middle-eastern leaders, he might not be around anymore.

 

taks

I think everybody with a little brain can already suggest what that means.

 

And what sort of dip**** security service did they have in that room anyway? He had time to throw a second shoe. Normally, he should have been pulled down after he threw his first immediately. And by pulling down, I don't mean almost killing him. What a dip**** crew.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Morgoth

[taks]

I think everybody with a little brain can already suggest what that means.

um, this guy gets taken down for assaulting the president of the US and somehow the president talking about freedom is connected?

 

no, people with brains use legitimate sarcasm and irony. nice try, however.

 

And what sort of dip**** security service did they have in that room anyway? He had time to throw a second shoe. Normally, he should have been pulled down after he threw his first immediately. And by pulling down, I don't mean almost killing him. What a dip**** crew.

now this, i agree with.

 

btw, rosbjerg, while you're up on your high and mighty chair o' judgement, where's your scorn for brdavs comments, eh? not one thing i said was even remotely as insulting as that... c'mon man, you're so good at it. YOU are the arbiter of who gets to voice their opinion, let's see how objective you really are.

 

taks

 

edit: realized a better way to say that. granted, gromnir would tell us it's not really irony, but hey, that's the way we use it now.

Edited December 16, 2008 by taks

[SteveThaiBinh]

I'd like to remind everyone in this thread that we all have a responsibility to post in a respectful and constructive manner, even when in discussion with those whose views we don't agree with. Some of the recent language has been anything but respectful.

[Morgoth]

I think everybody with a little brain can already suggest what that means.

um, this guy gets taken down for assaulting the president of the US and somehow the president talking about freedom is connected?

Has it even been confirmed that Saidi got these injuries in that room? What if security forces just abused him afterwards, in his cell? And that's certainly not the first case, as Bush after all, legitimated torture. But of course that doesn't itch him, he just needs to smile into the camera and make freedom speeches. Maybe you got it now.

[taks]

Has it even been confirmed that Saidi got these injuries in that room? What if security forces just abused him afterwards, in his cell?

no, but it wouldn't surprise me either way. you can't assault the leader of a major country and expect to not get roughed up.

 

And that's certainly not the first case, as Bush after all, legitimated torture. But of course that doesn't itch him, he just needs to smile into the camera and make freedom speeches. Maybe you got it now.

wow. do you know how to post without hyperbole? besides the fact that bush didn't "legitimate" torture (the word would actually be legitimize), what the secret service does to protect him is hardly his mandate. again, there is no connection or hypocrisy in his words about freedom, he was just assaulted. get it now? of course not, you are of the same unthinking ideology...

 

taks

[kirottu]

I think we need some proper flames in this thread. Where

[taks]

he is flameworthy, for sure.

 

taks