BREAKING NEWS: FALLOUT 3 TO FEATURE TEXT

[Nick_i_am]

This argument is already stupid, and it's only going to get worse from here.

 

Just saying.

[thepixiesrock]

You know what isn't stupid? Ipod nanos starting at just $49!

[Volourn]

"Wrong. If you are in a business that provides goods or services to people for money, you damn well better listen to their feedback."

 

L0L To a point. You most cetrianly don't kiss their butt. The voal minority rarely speaks for the majority. Sorry.

 

 

"Some fans are, some aren't. Dismiss them all at your own risk."

 

Funnily enough, many companies are accused of 'ignoring' the fans and customers yet remain successful. LMAO Your theory loses luistre when history disproves it.

 

 

 

"The devevlopers skill and knowledge only has value because there are people willing to pay money for it. No customers= no money."

 

No skills and no knowledge = no business = no customers = no money.

 

Skill, and knowledge in getting soemthing people want is the most important thing to success. Customers will be there as twe all know there are is a customer base base for games. That's not going to change anytime soon. We gamers have to get our gaming fix somehow. Therefore, logic dictates those companies who cna make games we'd want to play will be successful and that takes talent.

 

Down with the selfish, scummy, egotisitical, arrogant, and pieces of crap who cna't see the big picture and realzie their one loud, obnixious voice is nearly irrelevant.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Volourn

[Slowtrain]

This argument is already stupid, and it's only going to get worse from here.

 

Just saying.

 

 

As if there is any argument that hasn't already been pummelled to death years ago on this here internet.

[Slowtrain]

"Wrong. If you are in a business that provides goods or services to people for money, you damn well better listen to their feedback."

 

L0L To a point. You most cetrianly don't kiss their butt. The voal minority rarely speaks for the majority. Sorry.

 

I'm not saying who speaks for who. All I am saying is that when people who spend their money on your product offer feedback, any good company takes that feedback seriously. You can get away with living in an ivory tower for a while, but it eventually catches up with you. (By you I don't mean you, Volourn, just you in general.

 

Funnily enough, many companies are accused of 'ignoring' the fans and customers yet remain successful. LMAO Your theory loses luistre when history disproves it.

.

 

I'm not sure what that means. I was just responding to RN's statement that devs shouldn't listen to fans.

 

 

No skills and no knowledge = no business = no customers = no money.

 

Skill, and knowledge in getting soemthing people want is the most important thing to success. Customers will be there as twe all know there are is a customer base base for games. That's not going to change anytime soon. We gamers have to get our gaming fix somehow. Therefore, logic dictates those companies who cna make games we'd want to play will be successful and that takes talent.

 

ALl I said was no customers = no money. You don't appear to be in disagreement with that.

[random n00b]

As to your corollary: There are those like me who do not just buy any game regardless.

Yeah, not ANY game, just only those you're a "fan" of. And didn't you buy Oblivion, regardless?

 

 

Wrong. If you are in a business that provides goods or services to people for money, you damn well better listen to their feedback.

No. That's their call to make. They call the shots, they assume the risks.

 

 

This argument is already stupid, and it's only going to get worse from here.

Isn't that how legends are built?

[Slowtrain]

As to your corollary: There are those like me who do not just buy any game regardless.

Yeah, not ANY game, just only those you're a "fan" of. And didn't you buy Oblivion, regardless?

 

 

 

Yes, I bought Oblivion. I followed its development and believed the developers when they talked about all the improvements they had made over Morrowind. That was my mistake. I was wrong. It happens some times.

 

I loved STALKER:SOC. Loved it, But I still haven't bought STALKER: Clear Sky. Why? 2 reasons:

 

1) In hanging around their forums for the last year or so I have come to dislike how the devs treat their fans.

2) The incredibly buggy release and interminable patch process of S:SOC.

 

In view of both of those issues I decided not to purchase STALKER: CS upon release despite the fact I'm sure I will enjoy it. I'll probably bargain bin it in a few months. I would prefer to support a pc games developer by purchasing the game immediately, when it matters, but in good conscience I cannot.

 

So no, your evalaution of my game-buying thought process fails.

 

 

Wrong. If you are in a business that provides goods or services to people for money, you damn well better listen to their feedback.

No. That's their call to make. They call the shots, they assume the risks.

 

 

That's true. ANd therefore they assume the risk that I won't buy their game. I do wish other gamers would speak more authortatively with their wallets.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

The incredibly buggy release...

 

I haven't found it buggy...

[Slowtrain]

The incredibly buggy release...

 

I haven't found it buggy...

 

 

WHich? The original or the sequel?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

The incredibly buggy release...

 

I haven't found it buggy...

 

 

WHich? The original or the sequel?

 

Clear Sky

[Slowtrain]

The incredibly buggy release...

 

I haven't found it buggy...

 

 

WHich? The original or the sequel?

 

Clear Sky

 

 

That's good to hear.

 

Hopefully some lessons were learned by the devs/publisher after what happened with S:SOC. DOubtful, but one can always hope.

 

Anyway, I'll stick to my plan to pluck it out of the bargain bin at half price in a few months.

 

Thanks, though, for the positive word.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Down with the selfish, scummy, egotisitical, arrogant, and pieces of crap who cna't see the big picture and realzie their one loud, obnixious voice is nearly irrelevant.

 

Well, I wouldn't say completely irrelevant. EA is changing their DRM thingie on Spore due to the "selfish, scummy, egotisitical, arrogant, and pieces of crap" fanbase who are screaming at them. Maybe they will ditch it completely when DA comes out.

[Volourn]

They're not changing it because of the screaming. They're changing it because they feel it is in their best business sense due to the overall customer base not just the loud ones. If screaming was all it took, companies would be changing their policies all the time.

[Enoch]

Devs should listen to fans, but that doesn't mean they should take fans at their word. Ultimately, fans need to be protected from themselves. If the devs give them everything they want, the game usually sucks royally ("We needz Epik Levulzzz!!!1!"). Devs should listen to fans, but listen carefully, trying to hear the underlying reasons that are motivating the fans' (or critics') statements. Then they need to decide for themselves if there is a way to address those complaints in a way that works with their overall concepts for the game.

[Volourn]

No. they shouldn't listen to fans at all. They should listen to dollars. Dollars > Fans

[random n00b]

I loved STALKER:SOC. Loved it, But I still haven't bought STALKER: Clear Sky. Why? 2 reasons:

 

1) In hanging around their forums for the last year or so I have come to dislike how the devs treat their fans.

2) The incredibly buggy release and interminable patch process of S:SOC.

 

In view of both of those issues I decided not to purchase STALKER: CS upon release despite the fact I'm sure I will enjoy it. I'll probably bargain bin it in a few months. I would prefer to support a pc games developer by purchasing the game immediately, when it matters, but in good conscience I cannot.

So, "in good conscience" you are refusing to buy a game you know you'd like purely out of personal spite towards the devs. Go good conscience!

 

 

So no, your evalaution of my game-buying thought process fails.

Does it? Stalker is possibly an exception, and you have stated that you'll purchase it sooner or later. Perhaps you and I have a different notion of what constitutes failure. I was speaking generally, though, and the commercial performance of Oblivion proves my point.

 

 

I do wish other gamers would speak more authortatively with their wallets.

Fortunately, people operating on spite alone are relatively rare.

[Tigranes]

Fortunately, people operating on spite alone are relatively rare.

 

You sure 'bout that?

 

I think the biggest factor that stops consumers having an impact is because, well, consumers are weak. You might be angry about X when the news first breaks, but eventually, you're going to buckle down and pay up because, likely, the only reason you were that angry in the first place is because you really wanted to play that game! And part of the reason it's so easy to buckle down is because it's so hard to see what effect you have. Even if you do have an effect (usually as part of a not-very-well-mobilised whole), it's so hard to see that.

[newc0253]

Fortunately, people operating on spite alone are relatively rare.

I think the biggest factor that stops consumers having an impact is because, well, consumers are weak.

i agree 'consumers are weak' is a factor, but the deeper explaining factors are that (i) consumers simply aren't a uniform bunch and (ii) CRPG fans aren't exactly spoiled for choice.

 

first up, folk who like CRPGs with good writing are a minority. they're a minority of the folk who buy CRPGs generally (action CRPGs and fantasy MMORPGs are the biggest sellers) and they're an even tinier minority of game purchasers in general.

 

secondly, since there's not that many CRPGs being made, CRPG fans are hardly in a position to exercise much leverage. so what if Oblivion has lousy writing? it was also the first CRPG in a few months, and when otherwise playable CRPGs are few and far between, most CRPG fans were gonna buy it regardless.

 

so, yes, consumers are weak but because it's mostly because we're really talking about fans of story-driven (as opposed to action) CRPGs, and that tiny segment of the market is truly starved for choice.

Edited September 23, 2008 by newc0253

[Tigranes]

Absolutely. As I extrapolated above, this 'weakness' isn't suggesting that we lack moral fibre or something, but that in the current situation, boycotting is a thankless job that makes you feel like a solitary tinfoil man, even if you aren't.

 

Although, I wonder how similar/different it is with, say, FPS.

[Slowtrain]

I do wish other gamers would speak more authortatively with their wallets.

Fortunately, people operating on spite alone are relatively rare.

 

 

Spite? Is that what you call it when one observes the operation of a company and decides not to support it? Interesting.

 

Anyway, my wallet is the only way I have of making a statement that companies will understand, and once i give them my money, that's it, I've got nothing. At that point they have won. So I will consciously choose when and how, if ever, I give my money to companies. Yes, you can say that one person doesn't matter, but by that train of thought I shouldn't vote in the upcoming election either because my one vote really won't matter.

 

Sorry, no. I may not have much say in how the the real world works but I will exercise what little I can. I stopped thinking apathy was cool when I was 18 or so.

[Volourn]

"secondly, since there's not that many CRPGs being made, CRPG fans are hardly in a position to exercise much leverage. so what if Oblivion has lousy writing? it was also the first CRPG in a few months, and when otherwise playable CRPGs are few and far between, most CRPG fans were gonna buy it regardless."

 

Funny enough, I'm a CRPG fanboy but I managed to avoid buying Oblivion. And, I've managed to survive without it. People who bought Obloivion obviously like ES games. *shrug*

[Stephen Amber]

Anyway, my wallet is the only way I have of making a statement that companies will understand, and once i give them my money, that's it, I've got nothing.

 

And you've also posted on these boards nearly 2,000 times, hoping, I suppose, that that might make a difference.

[Slowtrain]

Anyway, my wallet is the only way I have of making a statement that companies will understand, and once i give them my money, that's it, I've got nothing.

 

And you've also posted on these boards nearly 2,000 times, hoping, I suppose, that that might make a difference.

 

 

I don't understand your point.

 

I mean, yes, obviously the reason I post on a gaming message board is because I care about games. If I didn't I would post on a board about model rocketry or something.

[newc0253]

Although, I wonder how similar/different it is with, say, FPS.

with a hugely popular genre like FPS, there's more opportunity to exercise choice because there's more options. the competition among titles and the huge rewards for a successful game means that publishers are willing to invest more in order to get a hit, and drives developers to be more innovative.

 

the downside is that fans of well-written FPS like Half Life or Bioshock are still outnumbered by muppets who will shell out for any old piece of crap so long as it has pretty graphics (hi there, Crysis!).

 

to an extent, the fact that i don't play FPS regularly works in my favour as a consumer because i can cherry pick the best ones and ignore the dross. i try to do the same with CRPGs but it's obvious the choice is more limited.

[random n00b]

You sure 'bout that?

Sure. They compensate by being extremely vocal, though.

 

 

Spite? Is that what you call it when one observes the operation of a company and decides not to support it? Interesting.

Wow, the "operation of a company"? Are they whipping their employees to death and using child labor or something? I mean, I could understand if you wanted to "make a statement" under those circumstances. But refusing to purchase a game you'd most likely enjoy because the devs are asses in their boards and previous products were buggy (hello, NWN2?) is not only spiteful - it's also childish.

 

 

Sorry, no. I may not have much say in how the the real world works but I will exercise what little I can. I stopped thinking apathy was cool when I was 18 or so.

Of course, and that's a very laudable attitude. What I'm criticizing are the criteria you go by and the consistency with which you apply them.