The Gamer's Bill of Rights

[mkreku]

Stardock, the creators of Sins of a Solar Empire among other things, have released a statement that customers of their products can come to expect:

 

[*]Gamers shall have the right to return games that don

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I <3 Stardock too...

 

EDIT: And I just bought another one of their products today -The Politocal Machine 2008-, one of the few compenies I will actualy buy games from WITHOUT checking what ****ty DRM scam will need to be removed delt with to enjoy the game.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Llyranor]

Ironclad made Sins, not Stardock.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Yep, Stardock was the publisher.

[Volourn]

1. Gamers have the obligation to pay $200 if they actually expect the rights listed above.

 

2. Gamers have the obligation to act like mature adults (possible exceptions apply for thsoe whoa rne't actually adults).

 

3. Gamers have the obligation to move on from games they dislike and don't harp on x game's 'failures' for years on end.

 

4. Gamers have the obligation to criticize in a civil manner, and stop acting like cavemen.

 

5. Gamers have the obligation to understand that if you attack a developer or publisher that they should ahev the right to attack you right back.

 

6. Gamers have the obligation to check their greed, selfishness, and 'me me me ness' to an actual reasonable level. ie. Don't pay $50 for a game, and expect to get the same level of service that you'd get buying that $25,000 vehicle.

 

7. Gamers have the obligation not to steal games whether the like the game or not.

 

8. Gamers have the obligation not to blame the publisher, and develoepr for fellow gamers' need to steal soemthing they don't need.

 

9. Gamers have the obligation to realize that games are not neccessities, and therefore not everybody is required to have them.

 

10. Gamers have the obligation to STFU.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Volourn

[Dark_Raven]

Yeah u tell 'em Volo.

[Morgoth]

People are always overreacting about every little silly thing (see ME DRM for example). I've yet to play a game that didn't allow me to play what I've payed for. Now if I need an Internet connection or the disc in the drive to play it or not doesn't bother me at all.

[Tigranes]

Of course not, and it will continue to be no-problemo for you until you are in a situation where one such thing DOES bother you. It's easy to see it as overreacting if you aren't personally inconvenienced by it...

[Morgoth]

Yeah Yeah. Next.

[RangerSG]

People are always overreacting about every little silly thing (see ME DRM for example). I've yet to play a game that didn't allow me to play what I've payed for. Now if I need an Internet connection or the disc in the drive to play it or not doesn't bother me at all.

 

Well, I DID have my game not run because of the DRM scam for MEPC, and lots of other people did. I waited 2 months for the patch to 'fix the problem' like they said it would. And guess what, it didn't do it for ANYONE.

 

So yes, I love Stardock for having the guts to stand up to the crap that goes on in the gaming industry today.

[Morgoth]

There are more important things the game industry should worry about than a small number of people who obviously can't maintain their PCs properly. I know I never had any issues, neither with ME DRM, nor with SecuROM, nor with that...how was it called, Starwhatever protection. Or Steam. Heck, I even could run an Indian made DD game without problems. Lolz?

 

But again, no doubt that some people have issues with tit and tat, but the majority doesn't. Thus, it's not really an earthshaking issue.

[RangerSG]

There are more important things the game industry should worry about than a small number of people who obviously can't maintain their PCs properly. I know I never had any issues, neither with ME DRM, nor with SecuROM, nor with that...how was it called, Starwhatever protection. Or Steam. Heck, I even could run an Indian made DD game without problems. Lolz?

 

But again, no doubt that some people have issues with tit and tat, but the majority doesn't. Thus, it's not really an earthshaking issue.

 

That is utter rubbish. "Can't maintain their PC's properly." I run NWN2 without lag in all but the most intense battles, that has requirements almost as high as MEPC. I run games fine that have HIGHER requirements than MEPC. It's got 'nothing' to do with the requirements. It's 100% DRM, thank you. And it's not a "small number of people." You obviously didn't pay attention to the DRM issues on the Bio forum for MEPC or the GPF fault issues...which are also almost certainly DRM related. So yes, Demiurge, who did the port, passed off to a LOT of people a game that was effectively a coaster. And Bioware let it happen. Bad on them, worse on Demiurge for their obvious failure to port effectively on MANY levels, as the tech support forum shows. Fortunately, Bioware took that issue more seriously than people like you who want to play apologist and join Microsoft in crawling through people's systems did.

[Morgoth]

There are more important things the game industry should worry about than a small number of people who obviously can't maintain their PCs properly. I know I never had any issues, neither with ME DRM, nor with SecuROM, nor with that...how was it called, Starwhatever protection. Or Steam. Heck, I even could run an Indian made DD game without problems. Lolz?

 

But again, no doubt that some people have issues with tit and tat, but the majority doesn't. Thus, it's not really an earthshaking issue.

 

That is utter rubbish. "Can't maintain their PC's properly." I run NWN2 without lag in all but the most intense battles, that has requirements almost as high as MEPC. I run games fine that have HIGHER requirements than MEPC. It's got 'nothing' to do with the requirements. It's 100% DRM, thank you. And it's not a "small number of people." You obviously didn't pay attention to the DRM issues on the Bio forum for MEPC or the GPF fault issues...which are also almost certainly DRM related. So yes, Demiurge, who did the port, passed off to a LOT of people a game that was effectively a coaster. And Bioware let it happen. Bad on them, worse on Demiurge for their obvious failure to port effectively on MANY levels, as the tech support forum shows. Fortunately, Bioware took that issue more seriously than people like you who want to play apologist and join Microsoft in crawling through people's systems did.

Failure? What failure? You're acting like they've released a damaged product. In that case, they'd have to pull all boxes back from the shelves. Again, a small percentage of users might have some issues due to whatever (and often easily fixable) issues, but going out and condemn the whole industry is just silly.

 

You just start the executable, connect to the servers shortly, and you're done. Game runs. Works splendid. Why do people have an issue with that?

[SteveThaiBinh]

I think that the two that are most important for me are:

Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.

Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.

What would be the effect of enforcing accurate minimum requirements? Perhaps publishers will start insisting that developers produce less demanding games, for fear of losing sales. That may not be a bad thing, and might even help publishers to release less buggy games.

 

I still find places like EA Store, where you can only re-download for six months after purchase, to be an absolute outrage, but they're also harming the gaming industry. The growth in digital distribution is one of the major positive developments in PC gaming, and yet limited re-downloads act as a disincentive to consumers and may be stunting the growth of the market. That helps no-one. What possible reason could there be, other than that publishers hope to make a bit of extra money from committed fans or nostalgics who repurchase the game - that's foolishly short-term thinking.

[Tigranes]

There are more important things the game industry should worry about than a small number of people who obviously can't maintain their PCs properly. I know I never had any issues, neither with ME DRM, nor with SecuROM, nor with that...how was it called, Starwhatever protection. Or Steam. Heck, I even could run an Indian made DD game without problems. Lolz?

 

Your anecdotal evidence has bowled me over clean. So I assume that if by a crueler twist of chance, irritating, game-crashing bugs happened on five or six games you've enjoyed in the past, you'd be holding that same view about the inconsequential minority? :roll: Come on - if you can't summon up enough wax to care about the issue that's no skin off your back, but there's no need to go around basically arguing "its fine for me, you must be doing something wrong, not that you matter anyway lulz".

 

Anyway, some RPS comments seem to latch on how 'self-congratulatory' the bill seems. Well, maybe it is, but how couldn't it be? I mean, they did things that they did because they believed in them, which is the same reason the stuff is on the 'bill'. I think (2) is quite a tall order to realistically expect, but certainly there should be a healthy level of 'demanding' it that shouldn't give way to cynical acceptance.

 

What would be the effect of enforcing accurate minimum requirements? Perhaps publishers will start insisting that developers produce less demanding games, for fear of losing sales. That may not be a bad thing, and might even help publishers to release less buggy games.

 

That would be nice, but it probably won't happen. We'll instead see a trend towards the population at large understanding that 'minimum requirements' is as much an illusion as the battery life of mp3 players or all those ads with 'actual product may differ' caveats.... it'll just become common sense (as it has already for many) to look at 'recommended' as 'minimum' and look online for the real recommended.

[SteveThaiBinh]

it'll just become common sense (as it has already for many) to look at 'recommended' as 'minimum' and look online for the real recommended.

Which is fine for people who are already in gaming and know all about publisher lies, but is a deterrent for those new to gaming, who get burned because they think minimum requirements means what it says. The first game they buy won't run, and they won't be buying a second. It's damaging to the growth of gaming.

[newc0253]

10. Gamers have the obligation to STFU.

dude, gamers have the right to anything the frak they want, so long as its not illegal.

 

so if gamers want to bitch and moan about games or developers for their faults and errors, real or imagined, then that's their frakking right. they got frak all leverage otherwise.

 

it's great that a publisher has the good sense to recognise some of the sh1t that pisses gamers off, (although i suspect that's just one of the many luxuries that comes from being a smallish independent publisher that's not beholden to the latest copy protection bs favoured by larger publishers).

 

so if a publisher does have good sense to make a list of sh1tty things they ain't gonna do, i guess you could either welcome it or act like some little corporate weenie's lapdog.

 

oh, i guess you made your choice already, huh?

Edited August 31, 2008 by newc0253

[RangerSG]

There are more important things the game industry should worry about than a small number of people who obviously can't maintain their PCs properly. I know I never had any issues, neither with ME DRM, nor with SecuROM, nor with that...how was it called, Starwhatever protection. Or Steam. Heck, I even could run an Indian made DD game without problems. Lolz?

 

But again, no doubt that some people have issues with tit and tat, but the majority doesn't. Thus, it's not really an earthshaking issue.

 

That is utter rubbish. "Can't maintain their PC's properly." I run NWN2 without lag in all but the most intense battles, that has requirements almost as high as MEPC. I run games fine that have HIGHER requirements than MEPC. It's got 'nothing' to do with the requirements. It's 100% DRM, thank you. And it's not a "small number of people." You obviously didn't pay attention to the DRM issues on the Bio forum for MEPC or the GPF fault issues...which are also almost certainly DRM related. So yes, Demiurge, who did the port, passed off to a LOT of people a game that was effectively a coaster. And Bioware let it happen. Bad on them, worse on Demiurge for their obvious failure to port effectively on MANY levels, as the tech support forum shows. Fortunately, Bioware took that issue more seriously than people like you who want to play apologist and join Microsoft in crawling through people's systems did.

Failure? What failure? You're acting like they've released a damaged product. In that case, they'd have to pull all boxes back from the shelves. Again, a small percentage of users might have some issues due to whatever (and often easily fixable) issues, but going out and condemn the whole industry is just silly.

 

You just start the executable, connect to the servers shortly, and you're done. Game runs. Works splendid. Why do people have an issue with that?

 

Because the DRM on MANY systems locks up the PC. That's why. It doesn't work "splendidly."

 

Also because on principle, it assumes the gamer is a criminal. Because it ASSUMES you are guilty of copying.

[Killian Kalthorne]

You just start the executable, connect to the servers shortly, and you're done. Game runs. Works splendid. Why do people have an issue with that?

 

Sometimes it just doesn't work out that simple on all systems. Not all PC systems are the same, and even one tiny insignificant piece of hardware may cause the DRM to belly up, while a game which doesn't use that copy protection work like a charm. Not everyone got to the point of connecting to the servers. They click the executable and the game crashes.

[Killian Kalthorne]

10. Gamers have the obligation to STFU.

dude, gamers have the right to anything the frak they want, so long as its not illegal.

 

so if gamers want to bitch and moan about games or developers for their faults and errors, real or imagined, then that's their frakking right. they got frak all leverage otherwise.

 

it's great that a publisher has the good sense to recognise some of the sh1t that pisses gamers off, (although i suspect that's just one of the many luxuries that comes from being a smallish independent publisher that's not beholden to the latest copy protection bs favoured by larger publishers).

 

so if a publisher does have good sense to make a list of sh1tty things they ain't gonna do, i guess you could either welcome it or act like some little corporate weenie's lapdog.

 

oh, i guess you made your choice already, huh?

 

It seems that this Volourn person likes to bitch and moan about people who bitch and moan. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

[Dark_Raven]

Volo is awesome. You just need to get to know the little guy. If you think he is bad, wait until Sand comes around.

 

DRM, SecROM and that other bull**** can die. Just die. Gamers don't need to be inconvience, certainly not I. Why torture the person who is buying the game legit? Stupid if you ask me. No sale by me if a game uses anything that makes it hard to install and play the game.

[Moatilliatta]

I wonder if they think this will help anyone. Why should a big publisher or a big developer suddenly adhere to this if they didn't before?

Gamers will buy the same things they did before this bill of rights and the only thing that will change video gaming is the slow crawl of eventual change.

 

@SteveThaiBinh

I doubt that the EA store damages digital distribution much since there are many other very good platforms like Steam and Impulse and at least steam is better known than the EA store in the important circles.

While EA likes to say that it has changed a lot they're still nasty beings of darkness and deceit.

[Killian Kalthorne]

What I don't get is why EA decided to spend the money and resources to produce their own system that will have many bugs to sort out instead of using a proven system that works like Steam? It doesn't make good business sense to me.

[Moatilliatta]

Because using a system created by angels for angelic pruposes isn't something that dark nasty beings of deceit do. Also they're bigger than Valve and want to be able to decide what is important for them instead of relying on Valve.

 

It is quite simple really.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Gamers will buy the same things they did before this bill of rights...

 

Yeah, I guess I will - but that does not mean anything in my case as I already avoid purchasing games that use excessive data rights management scams (id est Spore, the DRM version of Bioshock, and Mass Effect).