Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir

[deganawida]

Holy crud. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Geography Is this what Faerun really looks like? Quite possibly the ugliest geography in existence. It's like a bunch of nations were independently created, then tossed on the ground and stitched together as they lay.

 

Yep, that's it. Geography also doesn't make a lick of sense. One of the reasons that I'm not a fan of FR.

[Xard]

Read original post, duh

[Jorian Drake]

I really, really want to know how that guy pulled of Lute Hero.

 

That is really amazing. I mean it, I want to know how he did it!

 

Good stuff.

Adam Miller

 

 

he has a good job and lots of free time i presume

[Starwars]

Adam Miller is a strange mod developer to me. On one hand, the stuff he does for his mods is pretty crazy based on...well, just what he's doing with the engine. Like the crazy custom GUIs in Dark Waters 2, and the fact that there's basically a Pirates! system in there, and it actually *works*. Just wth.

And Lute Hero is just an insane thing to attempt. Haven't tried it yet though.

 

On the other hand, I also think his mods leave something to be desired as a whole. Still, it's always fun to see what he comes up with.

[Tigranes]

Ah, so Lute Hero was Adam Miller's. Well, it's time to try his work out again. I remember his earlier ones which were pretty good, and he had this crazy horror-ish story as well.

 

I don't think you can ever really get into an Adam Miller mod in terms of the type of 'immersion' we are familiar with, you are always aware that this is a sort of virtuoso performance from the man and it is wry - but that's not necessarily bad. This new direction he seems to have taken with crazy UIs and games seems to fit that, and it's an amazing technical accomplishment, to boot. That video really makes me want to play that game.

[Xard]

Adam Miller has pretty much always been genius of NWN modding. In original NWN1 he managed to stuck in riding on ****ing dragons and god knows what else. Seriously

 

In NWN2 he has already made MtG style card game, fireguns, whole bleedin' Pirates! styled ship system with combat et al and now THIS

 

 

Obz you really must hire that fellow

 

If he refuses then you kidnap his family

Edited June 10, 2008 by Xard

[Humodour]

Guys, I just found an important topic about NWN2: SoZ that this totally awesome guy made: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...1&forum=128

The crates are spreading? I wonder if barrels and cats will catch on in other forums.

 

In fact, if they don't put cats in SoZ, it's going against everything IWD and BG stand for. Tell me, what type of game would IWD2 be without cats? A lesser one, that's what.

[Oerwinde]

Holy crud. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Geography Is this what Faerun really looks like? Quite possibly the ugliest geography in existence. It's like a bunch of nations were independently created, then tossed on the ground and stitched together as they lay.

 

http://www.geocities.com/zhentar2003/toril_2.jpg

 

Its a little better when viewed as a whole.

[RangerSG]

Adam Miller is a strange mod developer to me. On one hand, the stuff he does for his mods is pretty crazy based on...well, just what he's doing with the engine. Like the crazy custom GUIs in Dark Waters 2, and the fact that there's basically a Pirates! system in there, and it actually *works*. Just wth.

And Lute Hero is just an insane thing to attempt. Haven't tried it yet though.

 

On the other hand, I also think his mods leave something to be desired as a whole. Still, it's always fun to see what he comes up with.

 

I have to agree. Adam Miller is...meh. A mediocre storyteller at best. He's great with visuals and tricks. But playing one of his mods is like watching "The Phantom Menace." You know it's not going to make a whole lot of sense and have plot holes you can drive a truck through. That's aside from the fact in both Demon and Dark Water he basically ripped your character out of your hands and rammed it into the prefabbed mold he had for it.

 

Was he incredibly important to the mod community? Sure. Do I even 'want' to play anything he does anymore. Absolutely not. I called Demon the most overrated mod on the Vault, I stand by that. I gave Dark Water 1 a 4...and I think I was generous to give it that high a score. Neither had any fun factor for me at all. Neither deserves to be called an RPG. Hire him? I guess, just don't let him do anything but technical developments, because anything he writes will be carp.

[Zoma]

Was he incredibly important to the mod community? Sure. Do I even 'want' to play anything he does anymore. Absolutely not. I called Demon the most overrated mod on the Vault, I stand by that. I gave Dark Water 1 a 4...and I think I was generous to give it that high a score. Neither had any fun factor for me at all. Neither deserves to be called an RPG. Hire him? I guess, just don't let him do anything but technical developments, because anything he writes will be carp.

 

I feel you are being too harsh on Adam who can be described as, a talented and eccentric modder. His strength mainly lies on innovation and creativity, creating unusual ideas that make what seems impossible into a possibility. Lute Hero is a great example of it.

 

I won't comment on his other works as I admit, I only played Lute Hero. But I enjoyed his bizarre humor that I feel is along the line of Monty Python's. But I strongly disagree at the bolded statement I made on the quote.

 

By joining Obsidian, it will expose him to how to make RPG designs and even storytelling into technical gameplay. There will be mentors to guide him and in time, he will learn to translate the cool technical innovations he is able to create and streamline it into an RPG design and even learn to forgo or put restraint on some ideas. Thus by you claiming that he must only be placed in the technical department to make games is a narrow view and sight of how to make use and nurture a talented individual.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Zoma

[Lariam]

If I rightly recall, Bioware would've hired him, but he said no thanks - that he has a nice job, family, and is happy with modding as he does it. I'd presume the response would be the same for Obsidian.

[Tigranes]

I haven't played some of Adam's recent things, but while I can see where RangerSG is coming from, Adam is not really trying to make that kind of work. His work can be bet described as a zany performance. You're not really meant to get absorbed in your role and feel a sense of a traditional, believable verisimilitude. You're supposed to be half role-player, half art gallery man / spectator, while Adam pulls all his tricks to show you just what he can do. And that's not necessarily a bad thing: the great thing about video games is that you can have all such kinds of different types of consumption in a single medium. Of course, if this kind of thing is not waht you appreciate, then Adam's work will never be more than an interesting gimmick for you. That's fair enough.

[Xard]

Tigranes hit the nail there. And I don't get what you mean with bad storytelling. For mod Dark Waters I's storytelling was quite great. Unless you approach it from roleplaying side of things which is once in a while overrided.

[Gorgon]

Holy crud. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Geography Is this what Faerun really looks like? Quite possibly the ugliest geography in existence. It's like a bunch of nations were independently created, then tossed on the ground and stitched together as they lay.

 

http://www.geocities.com/zhentar2003/toril_2.jpg

 

Its a little better when viewed as a whole.

It looks like proto-earth, I wonder if thats intentional.

[Xard]

...it's intentional

 

Similarly, if you remove Europe from Asia it doesn't make that much sense either

Edited June 11, 2008 by Xard

[deganawida]

Read original post, duh

 

I did, I just forgot to put it in "natural" as a qualifier to geography. As in, the weird placement of deserts, forests, swamps, mountains, etc. Tale was referring to the political landscape more than the natural landscape.

[Atreides]

I want Dance Dance NWN.

 

You know, I'm concerned of the resting system in SoZ.

 

MotB forces the players to consider their strategic situation before resting, thus forcing the players not to abuse resting.

 

How will SoZ stop players from abusing the resting system that affected the gameplay of NWN2 and NWN1? One way I could guess would be using time to affect the gameplay along the lines of Fallout 1. The world is dynamic to the point that after XX days later, if the player do not accomplish certain quests it would result in branching into a different scenario and ending. Another would be that it would affect the In-game economic status where bandits would attack your trade outpost or caravans that would affect your wealth or in-game opportunities if not dealt sooner.

 

But again that seems to be quite complicated for such system to be integrated into a NWN2 engine where it keeps track of days and time.

Maybe the quests you pick up have time limits. Wait a week to save the child lost in the forest? Wolves got to her.

 

Wait too long to investigate the ruins? Other adventurers plundered it.

 

However it could be a waste of effort. Instead of playing through say the 6 scenarios created, a player'd only get to choosea few if the rest time out. Otherwise mod them so the timing would have a different post-event scenario.

[Starwars]

I would really like time limits in the game where they make sense, and I think it could add a great deal of reactivity and reality to the gameworld (which would fit in well with the more non-linear structure this seems to be taking on).

However, I wonder if they're gonna do something like that after the backlash they got on the Spirit Eater mechanics. I loved it myself, but it doesn't seem to be a very popular device... To the point where it works against the game even. Everywhere I go to spread the word on how great MotB is, there is bound to be people complaining about how the Spirit Meter is teh hard!11 and how they only play RPGs to go around and smell flowers.

 

I would really like it though. At any rate, I really do hope that there will be resting restrictions of some kind. I guess at the very least they'll bring in the MotB resting system where you can be awakened by enemies.

[Xard]

Read original post, duh

 

I did, I just forgot to put it in "natural" as a qualifier to geography. As in, the weird placement of deserts, forests, swamps, mountains, etc. Tale was referring to the political landscape more than the natural landscape.

 

That was for Gorgon

[Humodour]

I want Dance Dance NWN.

 

You know, I'm concerned of the resting system in SoZ.

 

MotB forces the players to consider their strategic situation before resting, thus forcing the players not to abuse resting.

 

How will SoZ stop players from abusing the resting system that affected the gameplay of NWN2 and NWN1? One way I could guess would be using time to affect the gameplay along the lines of Fallout 1. The world is dynamic to the point that after XX days later, if the player do not accomplish certain quests it would result in branching into a different scenario and ending. Another would be that it would affect the In-game economic status where bandits would attack your trade outpost or caravans that would affect your wealth or in-game opportunities if not dealt sooner.

 

But again that seems to be quite complicated for such system to be integrated into a NWN2 engine where it keeps track of days and time.

Maybe the quests you pick up have time limits. Wait a week to save the child lost in the forest? Wolves got to her.

 

Wait too long to investigate the ruins? Other adventurers plundered it.

 

However it could be a waste of effort. Instead of playing through say the 6 scenarios created, a player'd only get to choosea few if the rest time out. Otherwise mod them so the timing would have a different post-event scenario.

 

Quest time limits are interesting. It's like stat-based dialogue. On the one hand, the player feels a sense of glee when they get it, and it increases replayability, but on the other hand, you risk the player not getting to experience it (see the people who played Torment first time as dumb warrior and subsequently dismissed the game). I think it's important that the time-limit and stat-based dialogue isn't transparent. You shouldn't be able to figure out how it works lest you risk violating the atmosphere. At the same time you need to ensure generally there is plenty of options available if the player doesn't get that option, make sure there are interesting consequences and/or alternatives so the player doesn't fuss too much about having missed something.

[deganawida]

Read original post, duh

 

I did, I just forgot to put it in "natural" as a qualifier to geography. As in, the weird placement of deserts, forests, swamps, mountains, etc. Tale was referring to the political landscape more than the natural landscape.

 

That was for Gorgon

 

Ah, gotcha

[Tale]

Holy crud. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Geography Is this what Faerun really looks like? Quite possibly the ugliest geography in existence. It's like a bunch of nations were independently created, then tossed on the ground and stitched together as they lay.

 

http://www.geocities.com/zhentar2003/toril_2.jpg

 

Its a little better when viewed as a whole.

That only looks better because you've removed the majority of geographic detail and the borders. The parts of it that made the least sense.

 

...it's intentional

 

Similarly, if you remove Europe from Asia it doesn't make that much sense either

Actually, it'd stlil make more sense. However, if the borders of European countries became random wavy lines with deserts and mountains randomly placed then it wouldn't make much sense.

[Xard]

I thought you talked about the shorelines and such.

 

Yeah, nation borders etc. is just as ****ed up as in Africa

[RangerSG]

Tigranes hit the nail there. And I don't get what you mean with bad storytelling. For mod Dark Waters I's storytelling was quite great. Unless you approach it from roleplaying side of things which is once in a while overrided.

 

"Once in a while." Try 'right off the bat.' You spend more time "role playing" characters that are NOT your PC in the beginning than you do your PC. Then the gimmicks start, and the 'plot,' such as it was, was an excuse to see how many could be shoved into 10hrs of gameplay. And whatever identity you had for your PC was ramrodded out of existence by the gimmicks. There was the potential for an interesting story there. But it was buried. I rated it a 4, and I think I was extremely generous. His work lost all semblance of RPing with Demon. Even the reviews of his work from his fans support it more for what he does in the toolset than any semblance of story. If you like Myst, I suppose you'd like it. If you're looking for Roleplaying, don't look at that. I'd find it a whole lot less disingenuous if he'd just drop the pretense of being a RP mod builder and enclose a mandatory PC to start the game with.

[Jorian Drake]

I thought you talked about the shorelines and such.

 

Yeah, nation borders etc. is just as ****ed up as in Africa

these maps are so relevant as the maps of medieval europe, where even the continent was bad drawn, don't read much into it, these border lines are great for disputes over territories in thear near area, that's all.