ME: male or female?

[Moatilliatta]

It's taking something which was an occasional inconvenience (those few times you actually fail), and replacing it with something almost as bad as Oblivions stupid lock picking mini-game. NO SENSE, NO SENSE AT ALL!

 

I agree, a skill check just avoids the entire situation. That said I like the way Wizardry 7 dealt with lock picking.

Minigames are important for the same reason that Oblivion and other games moved away from skillcheck stealth and into something that has actual interaction and resembles something that is fun, Bioware being unable to produce quality mingames doesn't mean we should move back to relying on skill checks.

Bioshock did reasonable hacking that was actually quite fun when not broken (i.e. when it was impossible to draw a line from the start to the end point).

 

How did Wizardry 7 deal with lockpicking?

 

Maybe a similar mini-game that System Shock 2's hacking uses?

Was that similar to Bioshock's minigame or was it something else?

[Zoma]

Can't remember to be honest. Its been a while since I last played SS2 and I was a Run and Gun type of player. I do recall the hacking emphasises on your character's skills, not on player's finesse.

[Jorian Drake]

*Minigames are important for the same reason that Oblivion and other games moved away from skillcheck stealth and into something that has actual interaction and resembles something that is fun*

[Gorth]

Minigames are important for the same reason that Oblivion and other games moved away from skillcheck stealth and into something that has actual interaction and resembles something that is fun, Bioware being unable to produce quality mingames doesn't mean we should move back to relying on skill checks.

I'll bring the pitchfork. Who brings the torch?

[H]

So... Who is in the mood for a quick lynching?

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Minigames are important for the same reason that Oblivion and other games moved away from skillcheck stealth and into something that has actual interaction and resembles something that is fun, Bioware being unable to produce quality mingames doesn't mean we should move back to relying on skill checks.

I'll bring the pitchfork. Who brings the torch?

 

Flaming and ready! Infact i have some spares...

[Jorian Drake]

I'm going to be the neutral judge, and announce the death sentence, with a neutral poker face

[Pidesco]

I like how Moatilliatta's post assumes that there is only one definition of fun, and that that definition obviously only includes player skill and not skillchecks. Because player skill is inherently and fundamentally better that character skillchecks.

 

Also, Bioshock's pipe minigame, was horribly easy, and completely devoid of any meaningful relation to the actual core gameplay. By the way, as far as I know, it was always possible to finish that minigame. The path was never closed.

 

As for SS2's hacking minigame, while not particularly interesting in and of itself, it actually affected the rest of the gameplay in an important way. Also, it depended more or less exclusively on your character's hacking and cyberaffinity skills.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Minigames are important...

 

I'm hard pressed to think of a minigame that I thought enhanced my gaming experience. Perhaps the turret-shooting game when you escape Taris in Kotor, though it should definitely have been optional, but a minigame successfully replacing a character skill check? Nothing springs to mind...

[Jorian Drake]

Minigames are important...

 

I'm hard pressed to think of a minigame that I thought enhanced my gaming experience. Perhaps the turret-shooting game when you escape Taris in Kotor, though it should definitely have been optional, but a minigame successfully replacing a character skill check? Nothing springs to mind...

i can only think of the russian roulette

[Xard]

guhh, Jorian, why your avatar is in style of OBSIDIAN EMPLOYEES

[Kaftan Barlast]

The only way to make a minigame fun is to make it a bit more complicated and a bit more challenging, but then you'll have your producer shouting about "casual players" and you're back to square one.

[Musopticon?]

guhh, Jorian, why your avatar is in style of OBSIDIAN EMPLOYEES

Jorian made the avatars. Fio, who happens to be a mod, has one as well so they aren't really "in style of Obsidian employees".

[Zoma]

Personally, the most fun minigames I had was going treasure hunting for those riddle locked chests in Betrayal at Krondor. Though it might be a little too much for these 'casual' gamers to have fun with it nowadays.

 

To take it up one level further, Space Rangers 2 minigames in text adventures can be quite a challenge.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Zoma

[Xard]

guhh, Jorian, why your avatar is in style of OBSIDIAN EMPLOYEES

Jorian made the avatars. Fio, who happens to be a mod, has one as well so they aren't really "in style of Obsidian employees".

 

Ahh, I didn't know that

 

Sorry Jorian

[Moatilliatta]

I sometimes forget which board I'm on, thanks for reminding me guys.

 

Now seriously, is someone gonna tell me that Oblivions stealth which was a mixture of player skill, smart thinking and character skill is worse than the ones where characters stealth through a field of dirt in bright daylight right around a couple of ogres with perfect eyesight?

 

I like how Moatilliatta's post assumes that there is only one definition of fun, and that that definition obviously only includes player skill and not skillchecks. Because player skill is inherently and fundamentally better that character skillchecks.

I don't. Notice how I mentioned Oblivions stealth which includes both interaction and skillchecks, all of them are important.

 

Also, Bioshock's pipe minigame, was horribly easy, and completely devoid of any meaningful relation to the actual core gameplay. By the way, as far as I know, it was always possible to finish that minigame. The path was never closed.

Bioshock's shooting was horribly easy but that doesn't mean that the idea of shooting in games is bad. Similarly, it had no meaningfull relation to the game since it lacked being tied to a skill, but that doesn't mean that the minigame wasn't fun and fitted in the game (unless you are a Yatzhee style nitpicker).

I'm pretty sure that the path was closed for me a few times.

[Xard]

Oblivion is really bad example because character skills really doesn't matter, all that matters is player skills

 

Deus Ex would've been better example

 

I sometimes forget which board I'm on, thanks for reminding me guys.

 

Now seriously, is someone gonna tell me that Oblivions stealth which was a mixture of player skill, smart thinking and character skill is worse than the ones where characters stealth through a field of dirt in bright daylight right around a couple of ogres with perfect eyesight?

 

This isn't minigame though.

 

And you forget what we see in CRPG's is more symbolical than literate.

 

For example in turn based combat you stand next to guy but somehow manage to miss with yout shotgun.

 

Maybe your character was blinded by sun and lost his balance or maybe small rocks on which he was standing on slipped and he misfired etc.

 

D&D sneaking (as it is seen) is similarly symbolic process

 

 

Besides, Oblibans stealth mechanics sucked anyhow

[Moatilliatta]

Oblivion is really bad example because character skills really doesn't matter, all that matters is player skills

 

Deus Ex would've been better example

Oblivions stealth relied on both player skill and character skill unlike Deus Ex which (excluding augmentation) had stealth being dependant upon plyer skill and only player skill.

 

Also you can make DnD as symbolical as you'd like, it's still bull that my character can stand amidst enemies in an open field in a cloudy but still light day.

 

You can't argue in favor of a broken system by showing me an equally broken system.

[Xard]

Oblivion is really bad example because character skills really doesn't matter, all that matters is player skills

 

Deus Ex would've been better example

Oblivions stealth relied on both player skill and character skill unlike Deus Ex which (excluding augmentation) had stealth being dependant upon plyer skill and only player skill.

 

I used DX as better example of game blending character and player skills.

 

Also you can make DnD as symbolical as you'd like, it's still bull that my character can stand amidst enemies in an open field in a cloudy but still light day.

 

Never argued it wasn't silly. However it's not THAT big flaw.

 

You can't argue in favor of a broken system by showing me an equally broken system.

 

What is this equaly broken system you're speaking of?

[Pidesco]

I sometimes forget which board I'm on, thanks for reminding me guys.

 

Now seriously, is someone gonna tell me that Oblivions stealth which was a mixture of player skill, smart thinking and character skill is worse than the ones where characters stealth through a field of dirt in bright daylight right around a couple of ogres with perfect eyesight?

 

I like how Moatilliatta's post assumes that there is only one definition of fun, and that that definition obviously only includes player skill and not skillchecks. Because player skill is inherently and fundamentally better that character skillchecks.

I don't. Notice how I mentioned Oblivions stealth which includes both interaction and skillchecks, all of them are important.

 

Also, Bioshock's pipe minigame, was horribly easy, and completely devoid of any meaningful relation to the actual core gameplay. By the way, as far as I know, it was always possible to finish that minigame. The path was never closed.

Bioshock's shooting was horribly easy but that doesn't mean that the idea of shooting in games is bad. Similarly, it had no meaningfull relation to the game since it lacked being tied to a skill, but that doesn't mean that the minigame wasn't fun and fitted in the game (unless you are a Yatzhee style nitpicker).

I'm pretty sure that the path was closed for me a few times.

 

Oh, I'm not in any way against mini games. If they're done well and are properly integrated with the actual game, I like them. If they suck and feel like padding for the actual game, then I don't like them. And actually, when I said that the pipe game didn't have any meaningful relation with the game, I wasn't talking about skill checks. I was talking about the fact that the rest of game freezes while you do the hacking, and its completely free to do the hacking.