Iran, the Lion, and the Rancher

[random n00b]

If fanning the flames of sectarian violence in Iraq makes a foreign nation a bad guy then the US and the UK get top honors for evil!

Aside from that - I think some facts would be good to back up assertions.

?

Doublethink?

?

 

 

Yeah well here's my take on them:

 

9/11 was an inside job.

The war on terror is bogus.

Its all manufactured terrorism.

 

The banksters are artificially propping up the economy, to give a bit more time to attack Iran after another round of inside jobs and false flag ops.

 

The schedule for the NWO has gone awry for Zionists and there neocon stooges. Its a lot harder for them to start WW3 Christians against Muslims while in the midst of a recession/depression.

Those are the premises for the upcoming Red Alert 3, right?

 

Cool beans.

[Laozi]

This brand of consumerism most appeals to me because it allows me to transfer all my aggression from my issues with my father to such far flung affairs as world politics. Half the time I dunno what any of its saying but the basic gist of it is that someone somewhere far away is responsible for all the stuff that happens that I don't agree with and theres nothing I could possibly do to change it is to parade around in black and spew stuff I heard these other people say and spend the my money on the things they say is alright. Because america is bad and the twelve jewish bankers are responsible for all the suffering in the world is way better then 'dad, I really didn't like all that hostility you used to come at me with when I didn't take the trash out the first time you asked'. But instead I get to act like I'm "in the know." I'm special. I mean, my thoughts aren't mine, but look at how cool the guy who came up with the thoughts looks...he's jumping through the air.......with his guitar........freaken bad ass ripped jeans. What color are his sock, they're black. Awesome.

[Tigranes]

Nothing wrong with having wildly different opinions guys, but stick to constructive, analytical opinions rather than blanket pejoratives. Not hate speech or anything, but it's hardly conducive to debate and likely to offend more than anything else.

 

Like, uh, Laozi! If I knew what he was saying.

[Walsingham]

This brand of consumerism most appeals to me because it allows me to transfer all my aggression from my issues with my father to such far flung affairs as world politics. Half the time I dunno what any of its saying but the basic gist of it is that someone somewhere far away is responsible for all the stuff that happens that I don't agree with and theres nothing I could possibly do to change it is to parade around in black and spew stuff I heard these other people say and spend the my money on the things they say is alright. Because america is bad and the twelve jewish bankers are responsible for all the suffering in the world is way better then 'dad, I really didn't like all that hostility you used to come at me with when I didn't take the trash out the first time you asked'. But instead I get to act like I'm "in the know." I'm special. I mean, my thoughts aren't mine, but look at how cool the guy who came up with the thoughts looks...he's jumping through the air.......with his guitar........freaken bad ass ripped jeans. What color are his sock, they're black. Awesome.

 

Please send photos. I need to make a small bronze statuette of you and worship you as my Lord. 'Lol' would be an insulting underestimate. *shock and awe*

 

Anyway...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...oldiers%27.html

 

And yes, I'd kind of like some facts to support the notion that we've been fanning sectarian violence. You know, besides our servicemen and women dying in peacekeeping roles in places like Sierra Leone, Kosovo, and Ireland. Never mind Iraq and Afghanistan, which would be laughably easy to 'win' if we were able to pick a side the way Iran has.

 

There are no damn troops free to invade Iran. There haven't been for years. It's not an option. The only possible conclusion is that far from an Iranian invasion being a conspiracy by neocons, it's a conspiracy by 'peace' buffs and anti-americanists.

[Brdavs]

But most Iranians are very moderate, and the government harbors no military ambitions to invade foreign countries.

They leave it to terrorist cowards to do their dirty work.

 

Quick, some1 nuke Washington!

 

Kettle, black lol.

 

 

 

 

I do think Izrael is playing the "was victim so I get out of jail free card" into absurds and that history will note with much irony on how the opressed turned opressors, but I give little weight to the "zionists control america" stories. True, a powerfull lobby whith hefty connections to others for mutual benefit, but I believe americans are crazy&greedy enough on their own merrit lol

 

I`m more inclined to "blame" the "Chickago School/Boys" and their neoliberal economic "experimentation". Whith their connections they`ve turned up everywhere they could, peddling their neoliberalism. From latin america(most notably Chile) to the transitional countries of Eastern Europe. And most recently ofcourse the "war on terror" redifined middle east. Great social or government unrests/conflictcs and shakeups are needed for a new "system to be put in place" you see... it`s only then that people are suseptible enough for it heh...

And every time a virtual country inside a country is created, an economic entity (based on the "privileged" multinational corporations that moved in) that is absolutly floureshing. And around it the "RL" country and society that is falling to ruins and imploding. But the bussines is doing quite well in the meantime heh... In the end it`s mostly about profit... it`s just that the profit isn`t collected by the state, ergo you have a bigass deficit on paper, but by other people and business entities.

 

Politics has allways been 98% economics. It`s just that with each passing year/decade the actors seem to loose a bit of "subtlety"... And when disasters that create opportunities run out... create yourown opportunities/disasters. Economics 101, constant expansion&growth lol.

Edited May 25, 2008 by Brdavs

[Humodour]

I want my two minutes back, please.

 

Likewise. While people like Walsingham have tackled the main issues (compared with conspiracy theorists like brdavs) and I'm probably repeating them, I'll just quote the current Iranian president: "Israel needs to be wiped off the map.", meanwhile his official military parades are adorned with imagery of ballistic missiles overlayed with slogans about how Israel must be erased.

 

In other words, totally peaceful.

[Brdavs]

What "conspiracy"... I`m stating historical and documented facts. Things you can easily look up for yourself from nonpartisan sources. Just cause some of the connections are less then fitting to the "we hold the moral highground" PR stance does not automatically make them a figment of the imagination.

I thought we would have realised the mantra "money makes the world go around" holds not a grain but a huge chunk of trouth by now heh...

 

What do you want from me? A seminar on neoliberalism in economy and it`s effects and attempts at practice over the years? A economic analasys of pre and post occupation Iraq? Photos from distinguished economists of the said persuasion touring the transitional countries under the banner fo IMF using the debts as leverage to persuade them the radical model was the way to go? First hand recollections on what went down in a country that had no outstanding IMF debt and could tell those theorists "no" & pursued its own model of privatisation to become the most sucessfull transition country, while the before mentioned ended up in a world of pain for most and a utopia for a few? How bout you put some effort in, eh?

 

But I guess it`s much easier to jump on the "it`s a conspiracy" wagon heh... God forbid we`d try getting a broader picture and creating oppinions of ourown. My knowledge of the past and present events leads me to the conclusion that there are substantional motivations not seen at first glance for the current and future "expeditions". And in a sense I actually take sollace from that. Atleast it`s not all nationalistic patriotism, blind prejudice and religious righteousness leading these events. Those I can`t realate to, greed I sorta can lol...

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: the threat level of Iran is in all fairnes minute compared to the likes of China to Taiwan or Russia. But economic ties and respective military might dictate a different approach. An approach that works, apparently. And it would work with Iran too... why not utilize it then? It couldn`t be... other motivations, would it? lol, nah that`s crazy conspiracy talk lol. You people excell at creating crazy as heck outside enemies to fear beyond all reason you know... better said you excell at falling for the same trick over and over again. Heck it`s human nature I guess.

Edited May 25, 2008 by Brdavs

[Humodour]

What "conspiracy"... I`m stating historical and documented facts. Things you can easily look up for yourself from nonpartisan sources. Just cause some of the connections are less then fitting to the "we hold the mnoral highground" PR stance does not automatically make them a figment of the imagination.

I thought we would have realised the mantra "money makes the world go around" holds not a grain but a huge chunk of trouth by now heh...

 

What do you want from me? A seminar on neoliberalism in economy and it`s effects and attempts at practice over the years? A economic analasys of pre and post occupation Iraq? Photos from distinguished economists of the said persuasion touring the transitional countries under the banner fo IMF using the debts as leverage to persuade them the radical model was the way to go? First hand recollections on what went down in my country that thankfully had no outstanding IMF debt and could tell those theorists "no" & pursued its own model of privatisation to become the most sucessfull transition country, while the before mentioned ended up in a world of pain for most and a utopia for a few? How bout you put some effort in, eh?

 

But I guess it`s much easier to jum on the "it`s a conspiracy" wagon heh... God forbid we`d try getting a broader picture and creating oppinions of ourown. My knowledge of the past and present events leads me to the conclusion that there are substantional motivations not seen at first glance for the current and future "expeditions". And in a sense I actually take sollace from that. Atleast it`s not all nationalistic patriotism, blind prejudice and religious righteousness leading these events. Those I can`t realate to, greed I sorta can lol...

 

Hold me.

[Brdavs]

What "conspiracy"... I`m stating historical and documented facts. Things you can easily look up for yourself from nonpartisan sources. Just cause some of the connections are less then fitting to the "we hold the mnoral highground" PR stance does not automatically make them a figment of the imagination.

I thought we would have realised the mantra "money makes the world go around" holds not a grain but a huge chunk of trouth by now heh...

 

What do you want from me? A seminar on neoliberalism in economy and it`s effects and attempts at practice over the years? A economic analasys of pre and post occupation Iraq? Photos from distinguished economists of the said persuasion touring the transitional countries under the banner fo IMF using the debts as leverage to persuade them the radical model was the way to go? First hand recollections on what went down in my country that thankfully had no outstanding IMF debt and could tell those theorists "no" & pursued its own model of privatisation to become the most sucessfull transition country, while the before mentioned ended up in a world of pain for most and a utopia for a few? How bout you put some effort in, eh?

 

But I guess it`s much easier to jum on the "it`s a conspiracy" wagon heh... God forbid we`d try getting a broader picture and creating oppinions of ourown. My knowledge of the past and present events leads me to the conclusion that there are substantional motivations not seen at first glance for the current and future "expeditions". And in a sense I actually take sollace from that. Atleast it`s not all nationalistic patriotism, blind prejudice and religious righteousness leading these events. Those I can`t realate to, greed I sorta can lol...

 

Hold me.

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2008 by Gorth
Some lines are fine to walk, some lines are not meant to be seen...

[Nick_i_am]

This brand of consumerism most appeals to me because it allows me to transfer all my aggression from my issues with my father to such far flung affairs as world politics. Half the time I dunno what any of its saying but the basic gist of it is that someone somewhere far away is responsible for all the stuff that happens that I don't agree with and theres nothing I could possibly do to change it is to parade around in black and spew stuff I heard these other people say and spend the my money on the things they say is alright. Because america is bad and the twelve jewish bankers are responsible for all the suffering in the world is way better then 'dad, I really didn't like all that hostility you used to come at me with when I didn't take the trash out the first time you asked'. But instead I get to act like I'm "in the know." I'm special. I mean, my thoughts aren't mine, but look at how cool the guy who came up with the thoughts looks...he's jumping through the air.......with his guitar........freaken bad ass ripped jeans. What color are his sock, they're black. Awesome.

 

You're my new best friend.

[Gorth]

Have we added what is worth adding to this subject?...

 

I find it rather sad, that whenever different perspectives gets added to established old, dusty views, the collective IQ seems to take a dip and make room for ridicule rather than reason

[Guard Dog]

Have we added what is worth adding to this subject?...

 

I find it rather sad, that whenever different perspectives gets added to established old, dusty views, the collective IQ seems to take a dip and make room for ridicule rather than reason

 

Considering Yushaas posting history most find it a little difficult to lend his posts any credibility. Don't you remember his 3000 some odd word rant about how the world would be such a better place if all Americans just went out and shot ourselves (my summation). However, there is the humor factor and he does bring out the best in Laozi so it's all good.

[Gorth]

Have we added what is worth adding to this subject?...

 

I find it rather sad, that whenever different perspectives gets added to established old, dusty views, the collective IQ seems to take a dip and make room for ridicule rather than reason

 

Considering Yushaas posting history most find it a little difficult to lend his posts any credibility. Don't you remember his 3000 some odd word rant about how the world would be such a better place if all Americans just went out and shot ourselves (my summation). However, there is the humor factor and he does bring out the best in Laozi so it's all good.

Umm, not really. The last major altercation I can remember was the whatshisname iranian president speaking at some US university thread. So many people vented to much bias, preconceived notions and lack of objectivity that it made me cringe and go hang out in the kotor2 forums for a while instead >_

[Walsingham]

While your making the tea could someone please draw me a map of Brdavs last two statements? I'm struggling to find my way around them, like a fat man in a hallway designed for narrow dwarves.

 

EDIT:

 

I see in the Presidency thread that Yuusha has suggested America should use peaceful negotiation before force with Iran.

 

1) Full military restraint has been observed with Iran, including over numerous provocative 'mock' attacks by fast boats in the Gulf (Stratfor reported)

2) Iran's pasdaran continue to train, finance, and support insurgents in Iraq.

3) The USA has accepted and participated in numerous talks over the last 10 months with Iran.

 

This suggests to me that it is Iran who is proceeding in bad faith, not the USA.

[Guest The Architect]

I'd be surprised if 90% of conspiracy theorists weren't anti-Semite, it just all seems like an excuse for people to attack the Jews because of their own bigotry towards them fuelled by a religious rivalry dating way back I suppose. Laozi's right, we're talking about people who have personal issues and are projecting their bitterness onto something else rather than accepting responsibility for their own actions, moving on and not living in noddy land. I'm generalising, but if you've ever come across a conspiracy theorist they're about as one eyed as... a person with one eye.

[Gorth]

While your making the tea could someone please draw me a map of Brdavs last two statements? I'm struggling to find my way around them, like a fat man in a hallway designed for narrow dwarves.

Happy to oblige

 

 

Not sure if it allows direct linking...

[Walsingham]

While your making the tea could someone please draw me a map of Brdavs last two statements? I'm struggling to find my way around them, like a fat man in a hallway designed for narrow dwarves.

Happy to oblige

 

 

Not sure if it allows direct linking...

 

I see....

 

*saves before re-entering mazelike statement*

 

Aiiiieeee! A subjunctive spinning blade trap!

[Gorth]

I'd be surprised if 90% of conspiracy theorists weren't anti-Semite, it just all seems like an excuse for people to attack the Jews because of their own bigotry towards them fuelled by a religious rivalry dating way back I suppose. Laozi's right, we're talking about people who have personal issues and are projecting their bitterness onto something else rather than accepting responsibility for their own actions, moving on and not living in noddy land. I'm generalising, but if you've ever come across a conspiracy theorist they're about as one eyed as... a person with one eye.

I'd would be surprised if 90% of conspiracy theorists weren't paranoid to some degree. However, closing perfectly good eyes and assuming that people in power always have your best interest at heart isn't necessary a good thing either.

 

Which is why my "religion" is doubt and my "crusade" consists of constantly questioning my own lines of thought as well as my surroundings. Investigating why things are the way they are, is something I consider a virtue

[Humodour]

I'd be surprised if 90% of conspiracy theorists weren't anti-Semite, it just all seems like an excuse for people to attack the Jews because of their own bigotry towards them fuelled by a religious rivalry dating way back I suppose. Laozi's right, we're talking about people who have personal issues and are projecting their bitterness onto something else rather than accepting responsibility for their own actions, moving on and not living in noddy land. I'm generalising, but if you've ever come across a conspiracy theorist they're about as one eyed as... a person with one eye.

I'd would be surprised if 90% of conspiracy theorists weren't paranoid to some degree. However, closing perfectly good eyes and assuming that people in power always have your best interest at heart isn't necessary a good thing either.

 

Which is why my "religion" is doubt and my "crusade" consists of constantly questioning my own lines of thought as well as my surroundings. Investigating why things are the way they are, is something I consider a virtue

 

Both are obviously not good, being extremes. Though the problem of Iran's anti-Semitism has little to do with our faith in our governments, unless secretly Iranians like the Israelis and their hatred of Jews is all a myth perpetrated to by our governments to steal their oil.

 

After all, Archie in no way implied we have or should have blind faith in our governments.

[Walsingham]

Something to keep in mind is the ethnic diversity of Iran. They need foreign bogie men to hold their country together.

[Moatilliatta]

@Walsingham

I'm not sure if they need it, but I too believe that is the intended effect of the anti-israel rethoric.

I'd be surprised if 90% of conspiracy theorists weren't anti-Semite,...

I've heard this one before and it has never seemed a reasonable argument to me. I would be more willing to believe that conspiracy people tend to attack Israel because it is easy and because it fits well into their already laid out line of atacking their own or any other relevant government.

 

Edit: For direction.

Edited May 25, 2008 by Moatilliatta

[Walsingham]

@Walsingham

I'm not sure if they need it, but I too believe that is the intended effect of the anti-israel rethoric.

I'd be surprised if 90% of conspiracy theorists weren't anti-Semite,...

I've heard this one before and it has never seemed a reasonable argument to me. I would be more willing to believe that conspiracy people tend to attack Israel because it is easy and because it fits well into their already laid out line of atacking their own or any other relevant government.

 

Edit: For direction.

 

I agree it seems a wee bit harsh to accuse all conspiracists of being anti-semites. I mean, what about those subterranean lizard guys? Are the lizards Jewish?

 

*briefly considers drawing a lizard with a monocle saying 'mazeltov' behind the Queen.*

[Meshugger]

I always wanted to join one of those 13 families. I mean, if they're so powerful, why even bother? But i am having trouble finding them, i haven't found them in the yellowpages, nor do they have a website where i can file my open application. Again, you can't rule the world because of your heritage, so they must welcome their new members somehow, maybe they have some summer trainee programs, or at least something.

 

Maybe i should get one of those VIP-cards for the Bilderberg meetings, they seem to be very secretive enough(=evil overlords). I would definately fit right in, i would just say "You guys RULE!", which they literally do, and do the international devilsign symbol, since everyone knows they worship BAHOMETH, the devil himself. Speaking of which, does that mean that all the metal-heads out there are members as well? They do the devilsign, and i can tell you, they do it A LOT. But they don't seem to respond to my requests, am i doing it wrong somehow? Maybe i too rude, maybe i should give them some gifts, right? Some marmalade in some nice wrappings, everyone likes that, right?

 

I am really getting confused here, help me out here, will ya? Please?

[Gorth]

Something to keep in mind is the ethnic diversity of Iran. They need foreign bogie men to hold their country together.

 

Robert Mugabe is painting "Imperial Foreign Powers" on the walls of peoples imagination in Zimbabwe, other leaders in volatile countries do the same... creating scape goats is an old, tested and tried recipe.

[Humodour]

Something to keep in mind is the ethnic diversity of Iran. They need foreign bogie men to hold their country together.

 

Robert Mugabe is painting "Imperial Foreign Powers" on the walls of peoples imagination in Zimbabwe, other leaders in volatile countries do the same... creating scape goats is an old, tested and tried recipe.

 

Indeed. It provides an (unfortunate) cohesive force for an otherwise unsustainable regime. I think Orwell documented such a phenomenon fairly well in 1984.