Morgoth Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Lol, that took them long to realize. But I remember clearly when Cevat bashed on consoles prior the Crysis launch, but I guess he changed his mind when it was announced that Crysis only sold 80k units. Later they said "1 million", but that's probably just the player base, not the customer base. Rain makes everything better.
Jediphile Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Unless you can prove that piracy didn't effect the games sales, then what you're saying is just as much an excuse as what they are saying.Funny that you would ask for proof, when you provided none yourself. The point of my original post was that neither side can prove their claims. "The thing about "they wouldn't have bought it anyway" is that it's just as valid an argument as "every pirated copy is a lost sale", because there is no way to prove it either way. I suspect the truth is in the middle." The legal principle is that the one making the accusation carries the burden of proof, and in these cases, it's the gaming companies that accuse the piracy of dwindling sales. However, I can no longer take that claim seriously. The music industry claim that piracy kill their business. The movie industry claim that piracy kill their business. But guess what? The music, movie AND gaming industries all STILL produce material, and they all STILL make money. I especially don't believe the claims of piracy killing the gaming business, because piracy has been part of the gaming industry since its very birth - it's always been there, right back to the days when games were written by lone programmers sitting in their parents' basements. And games STILL evolved into an industry that now makes more money than the movie industry, according to some sources. It just doesn't add up that piracy is quite THAT lethal to gaming. If it were, the business would have gone under by now, rather than actually making more money than ever and developing into the mammoth industry it is today. Now, that's not to support piracy. I don't. I'm just saying that there will always be piracy to some extent, but that the business can survive even so. No amount of copy protection or registration is going to make it go away. None. Companies have been trying to create a fool-proof method for decades now, and the pirates always find a way around it, and I suspect they always will. A shame, because it means some people don't support the industry with money. But I doubt it'll kill the industry. Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Nick_i_am Posted April 30, 2008 Posted April 30, 2008 Piracy doesn't hurt book sales either! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Llyranor Posted April 30, 2008 Author Posted April 30, 2008 Piracy didn't hurt Nick's face, either. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
kirottu Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Didn This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Nick_i_am Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Shh, don't use logic and previous experience as the basis of your arguments, that's not fair. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
alanschu Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 It doesn't actually matter exactly how many legal copies might have sold without the pirate version, if companies like Crytek look at all the pirated copies out there and it makes them no longer want to develop PC exclusives, or worse, abandon PC altogether, then clearly piracy does have an effect on PC gaming.Lol no. It's called an excuse. They can make up any number of those to justify their game not living up to their sales expectations, but that doesn't make them true. Yours is living in denial. You can state that people that pirate wouldn't buy the game anyways, but that doesn't make it true.
alanschu Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 I recently got singed (as opposed to burned) by digital distribution. I lost Aquaria, Thief 3, and Neverwinter Nights 2 when I accidentally formatted the wrong drive. Even sent the drive to my uncle for data recover and he simply can't find the data (I also lost the NWN2 module I was working on). When my new computer gets built, I'll have to check around to find out if I can maybe salvage those. I can't recall what limits D2D has on redownloading and need to see if bit-blot will send me a new download link. I'm pretty sure Direct2Drive lets you download as much as you want.
Jediphile Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 It doesn't actually matter exactly how many legal copies might have sold without the pirate version, if companies like Crytek look at all the pirated copies out there and it makes them no longer want to develop PC exclusives, or worse, abandon PC altogether, then clearly piracy does have an effect on PC gaming.Lol no. It's called an excuse. They can make up any number of those to justify their game not living up to their sales expectations, but that doesn't make them true. Yours is living in denial. You can state that people that pirate wouldn't buy the game anyways, but that doesn't make it true. Nor does claiming that a pirated copy of a game equals a lost sale make it so. There simply is no clear evidence either way, and it's pretty convenient to blame piracy for your game (or movie, novel or music) not selling so well. Because there will always be piracy, and so it can always be blamed. But despite how much piracy allegedly harms those industries, they still make money. This is even more relevant in computer games, which has always dealt with piracy. Since the days of the very first computer games, I've heard this "oh the pirates copy our games - the sky is fallng!!" sort of arguments, but despite the purported impending doom of computer games, they still evolved into an industry onto its own and a business so successful, it now makes more money than movies do. So succesful that no movie wants to open on the release date of GTA4, because they fear losing to people being at home playing... Doesn't sound like the industry is quite that threatened. Visit my KotOR blog at Deadly Forums.
Llyranor Posted May 1, 2008 Author Posted May 1, 2008 It's true, they could just make console games and make more money. Everyone wins! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Kaftan Barlast Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 *cough* multi-platform is the future! *cough* DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Krookie Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Don't know if it has been mentioned but Madden 09 isn't coming out for PC either, so the PC has also lost what is probably the biggest sports title on the market. The PC's end is near!
Moatilliatta Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 (edited) Yeah, but that decision had much more to do with the fact that the people who play sports games are whiners who like to sit comfortably in front of their plasma screen instead of sitting dangerously close to their tiny monitor LIKE REAL MEN! Edited May 1, 2008 by Moatilliatta
Pidesco Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Yeah, but that decision had much more to do with the fact that the people who play Madden are American whiners who like to sit comfortably in front of their plasma screen instead of sitting scrounged up by their tiny monitor LIKE REAL MEN! Fixed! "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Krookie Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Yeah, but that decision had much more to do with the fact that the people who play Madden are American whiners who like to sit comfortably in front of their plasma screen (because they can afford them) instead of sitting scrounged up by their tiny monitor LIKE POOR MEN! Fixed! Fixed!
J.E. Sawyer Posted May 1, 2008 Posted May 1, 2008 Maybe the reason why a game like Crysis sell 4-5 time more than Crysis for PC is the simple fact that most people actually can play the game on their PS3 or Xbox 360 console. As I understand the system requirements (recommended) they are very -ehm - steep. The point here of course being that many PC gamers might like to play Crysis, but haven't the PC machine that's capable of running the game. There's a big difference between "not many people are buying/playing our game" (i.e. no one likes it/no one has systems to run it) and "many people are pirating our game" (i.e. people are playing pirated copies). Those who can afford systems that run Crysis sure as hell can afford to buy Crysis. And if the game is at the top of the piracy charts, I'd assume that people are actually downloading it to play it. twitter tyme
Tigranes Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 Well, if someone wanted to buy Crysis, and they weren't sure if the system would run it to their satisfaction, and stores near them didn't have an easy refund policy (or they would want my money back, not exchange for another game), then I think they would definitely look at piracy. You can imagine the person saying: "I know a thing or two about games, so I know that just meeting the minimum, or even recommended, requirements doesn't always guarantee a good experience. I've also heard game [x] is a big resource hog, or has big troubles with bugs or compatibility issues. Obviously I'm goint do download this game and see before I cash out on a potential headache." In which case, what % of those people then pass on Crysis because it didn't run well? What % end up buyign it anyway, and what % end up just playing the pirated copy now they have it? Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Moatilliatta Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 Crysis did have a demo out, so that is no excuse. Sawyer is right in that Crysis did have a problem with the number of pirates. Or are pirates allergic to demos?
Bokishi Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 Crysis did have a demo out, so that is no excuse. Not really. The demo is just that of the first level, with requirements getting steeper and steeper as the game progresses. For many computers, the graphic settings perfect for the first level will be too sluggish for the snow level, I know I experienced this before getting my third 8800 Current 3DMark
random n00b Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 It doesn't actually matter exactly how many legal copies might have sold without the pirate version, if companies like Crytek look at all the pirated copies out there and it makes them no longer want to develop PC exclusives, or worse, abandon PC altogether, then clearly piracy does have an effect on PC gaming.Lol no. It's called an excuse. They can make up any number of those to justify their game not living up to their sales expectations, but that doesn't make them true. Yours is living in denial. You can state that people that pirate wouldn't buy the game anyways, but that doesn't make it true. That goes against what I said how? Read my other posts in this thread. Specifically the one where I say I'm not disputing that pirates excuse their behaviour by claiming that piracy isn't equal to lost sales. As an aside, to live in denial is to disregard blatant evidence. There's no such thing as blatant evidence to support that piracy = lost sales. You failed.
Nick_i_am Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 I've pirated a game I would have otherwise have bought, so that's a lost sale so you fail. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Moatilliatta Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 Crysis did have a demo out, so that is no excuse. Not really. The demo is just that of the first level, with requirements getting steeper and steeper as the game progresses. For many computers, the graphic settings perfect for the first level will be too sluggish for the snow level, I know I experienced this before getting my third 8800 Really? I guess I'm being beaten over the head for using anecdotal evidence. The only thing I've heard about the demo is that it is so long that there is hardly any reason to buy the game. I think my point is still valid as people who pirate to 'try out' the game won't play as far as the alien part and as such will not experience the increased load.
Hurlshort Posted May 2, 2008 Posted May 2, 2008 I really doubt people who choose to pirate Crysis are thinking "well the demo is available, but I really need to get further into the game to see if my machine can handle the graphics." People pirate because they are self serving leeches who think they are entitled to the hard work of others for free. I pirated a few games when I was in High School, and looking back I have no problem admitting it was me being young and selfish. People who pirate need to grow up, they are damaging their own hobby with their ignorance.
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