M4-78 mod discussion

[H]

That said, I'm fairly certain somebody Dstoney or someone else will make his M4-78 mod compatible with TSLRP if it turns out that it isn't already. We want our full TSL experience, after all!

Restoring M4-78 isn't a good idea. We have nothing except half-finished modules, basic outline of the plot and some bits of dialogue here and there. Modders will have to finish the main story arc and write a couple of side quests themselves, and their prowess with the pen is questionable at best. Leave M4-78 rest in peace.

[Lidda-Bit]

Big bad wolf!

[Sharen the Exile]

[quote name='H

[H]

You're like copule of years late with your comment.

Really? You mean voice-overs got recorded and missing pieces of dialogue were uncovered?

M4-78 by DStoney has just been RELEASED. Done. It's restored. And it's really good FYI.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Something tells me I'll find an amateurish mod that feels nowhere as professional as the rest of the game, but I'm always ready to be pleasantly surprised.

[babydol]

[quote name='H

[H]

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/M478;89207

There you go.

 

I'm pretty sure there is no dialogue for Vash on Dantooine in the game files, which is the first hint on the level of quality of this mod. There is a difference between "restoring" and "making crap up using cut content as the basis". Note: I'm sure DStoney put a great deal of work and love in this project, and I respect him for this, but saying that M4-78 was restored is untrue.

[babydol]

Thanks! I'll probably try it out my next run-thru

[Jediphile]

[quote name='H

[Deadly_Nightshade]

 

Ummm... I am almost positive that this is original dialog.

[H]

I don't understand why you're dissing the M4-78 mod when you admit you haven't even tried it.

Because it's just a mod. In my eyes, their quality is low by default, and I give a mod a whirl only if enough people recommend it to me.

Will it be up to the quality of Nar Shaddaa or Dxun/Onderon? Perhaps not, but it's there, it's free, and beggers can't be choosers.

Beggars? Where? As I said, restoring M4-78 is a doomed effort. Playing with content we do have and creating a mod? Sure, something may come of it, but it isn't a restoration. I'm very picky, and modders seldom have enough talent to create something I can enjoy. Hell, 99% of so-called "professional game designers" can't do it.

 

Ummm... I am almost positive that this is original dialog.

This particular line? Sure, but I wasn't talking about it. Vash is present in the scene and she has no written dialogue, which means she either:

A. Speaks some lines written by DStoney and voiced by his girlfriend.

B. Just stands there without speaking a single line.

Beholding either of these options in action isn't something I would like to experience.

Edited April 16, 2008 by H

[Sharen the Exile]

[quote name='H

Edited April 16, 2008 by Sharen the Exile

[DAWUSS]

[quote name='H

[Darth_Windu]

Just to answer a question about a page ago, the TSLRP is not designed to be compatible with ANY mod. After it is released, other modders will have to make their mods compatible with the TSLRP. The reason for this is because of the huge number of mods out there, and the size of the TSLRP, it simply isn't feasible for the TSLRP team to make it compatible with everything.

 

That said, Stoney has already said he's going to make a TSLRP-compatible version, and I'm 99% sure that the excellent Ultimate Sabre Mod will have a TSLRP-compatible version too.

[Xard]

Yay for H

[Enha_Dyone]

[quote name='H

[Deraldin]

[quote name='H

[H]

Yep, voice-overs got recorded and they're really good. Actually, the voice-overs for one of the droids on the planet (IS-24) that were done by Obsidian sound worse and less proffesional than those so-called "amateur" ones done by Stoney.

As for missing dialogues. There were many new written. I'm not a native English speaker, so I can't really tell if they are well-written, with good style etc. but I enjoyed them much, the story behind them is fun and interesting.

What I am afraid of is that this mod's story is an ungodly combination of MCA's and Stoney's writing. Stuff like this rarely ends well.

 

I doubt there's a thing on Earth that would satisfy you.

Plenty of things can: talent, good design, witty dialogue, twisty story, interesting characters. You got the idea.

 

Wrong. Again.

I double-checked with KotOR Tool. No diague for her in vanilla TSL.

 

Not that's what I call a good way to show someone your respect for him! Call his work crap! Yay!

He was capable of finishing the modules and putting story together. It takes skill and deserves respect. I simply doubt his talent as a writer, which is way more important to me.

 

So what are you doing here? This is a thread dedicated to a mod. And based on your ingenious and priceless quotes, I'm 100% sure that even Team Gizka's mod won't meet your distilled and top-quality-defying standards.

Mommy, make him go away! This mean baddie has standards and doesn't like things I like!

 

Start creating your own modds. I'm sure there would be the best ever and even better than the actual game! Actually I think they would be total crap but hey, don't blame me! I'm just very picky.

This must be the dumbest thing I've heard in a very, very long time. I'm not a modder and I will never be one, but does it reall disqualify me from judging works of others? Do sommeliers have to have their own vineyards?

 

[quote name='H

[Darth_Windu]

Hummel, I think the main point here is that it's unfair of you to criticise the mod without playing. I don't think anyone here has any issues with criticism, so long as it is informed criticism. Without playing the mod, it is simply not possible for you to give this. Sure, Kotor Tool might tell you that there's no dialogue files there, but that doesn't mean that such files don't exist. Again - until you play the mod, your criticism is unfounded, and unfair.

[H]

Hummel, I think the main point here is that it's unfair of you to criticise the mod without playing. I don't think anyone here has any issues with criticism, so long as it is informed criticism.

It is informed.

1. I see Master Vash at one of the screenies of the second trial.

2. I remember that there is no dialogue for her.

3. I put two and two together and suddenly realize that the modder must have written her lines all by himself.

4. The memories of modules created by writer-wannabes painfully resonate inside my head.

5. I come to a conclusion: this is just a mod, not a restoration effort Sharen claimed it to be.

Sure, Kotor Tool might tell you that there's no dialogue files there, but that doesn't mean that such files don't exist.

It means exactly that.

Again - until you play the mod, your criticism is unfounded, and unfair.

I have no interest in mods. My original point was that restoration of M4-78 was impossible due to the lack of content to work with. That said, it may be a somewhat decent mod which makes use of art assets that didn't make into the final game, I give you that, but such things simply aren't my cup of tea.

Edited April 17, 2008 by H

[Sharen the Exile]

So because he brings up a legitimate criticism/concern he shouldn't be allowed to download the mod?

He didn't even played the mod. How can you criticize sth when you don't even know what you're talking about? Legitimate concers? He didn't say he's concerned VOs may be amateurish, he said he's sure they are amateurish. That's not legitimate criticism/concern. That's prejudice.

 

[quote name='H

[H]

You have ridiculousy high standards for mods. Do you think people have sound recording studios in their homes or what? I think Stoney did a really good job with the VOs.

I have the same standards for everything. If you can't record excellent voice-overs then don't record them at all. No voice-acting > Bad voice-acting. And there is nothing ridiculous about my standards: Purgatorio seems to satisfy them and it's being developed by modders.

 

No, but others at least understand the limitations of mod making and don't diss mods because they're not on the exact same level as the original game.

I acknowledge these limitations. As I pointed out, a talanted team may overcome them.

 

Sommeliers taste wines before judging them. And they don't assume one wine sucks before tasting it.

They can distinguish wine from juice just by looking though.

 

Than why are you wasting your precious time posting your "concers" about the mod being crap over and over again?

I would be perfectly OK if you said that you hate the mod, think it sucks major balls etc. if you PLAYED it and FINISHED it.

Expressing your concers before playing the mod is one thing. You didn't espress concerns. You assumed that the mod is an amateurish crap. Here's the problem.

So you've already forgotten that you were the one who dragged me into this discussion in the first place? I said that restoring M4-78 was impossible. You said that DStoneny restored it. I pointed out some stuff he obviously created from scratch, which makes his project just a mod, not a restoration in the true sense of the word. You called the mod a restoration effort, and I judged it as one. Then you suddenly started the whole drama. What gives?

 

As for the rest of your points: I'll play this mod and post my impressions in a separate thread. Deal?

[Xard]

Yeah, double standards should not be utilized with mods when some modders e.g Team Gizka and Purgatorio team ( and couple of old NWN1 mods for sure) seem to be able to satisfy more or less what people want from them and NOT fall behind commercial work. Hard but not impossible.

 

[quote name='H

Edited April 17, 2008 by Xard

[Darth_Windu]

"you haven't played it so you can't know" (yet another horrible strawman) is idiotic and misdirected.

How is that misdirected? So you're saying that if I called you a moron without knowing you in any way, shape or form that would be fine, but it would be 'idiotic and misdirected' if someone corrected me and said 'you cant call him/her a moron until you actually have some contact with him/her'?

[DAWUSS]

Can't really be a legitimate criticism if he hasn't even tried the mod...it's only denigration

 

 

Hummel, I think the main point here is that it's unfair of you to criticise the mod without playing.

 

 

He didn't even played the mod. How can you criticize sth when you don't even know what you're talking about? Legitimate concers? He didn't say he's concerned VOs may be amateurish, he said he's sure they are amateurish. That's not legitimate criticism/concern. That's prejudice.

 

 

I assume you've also never criticized the President of the United States either, because, IIRC, none of you have ever been President of the United States.

 

I also assume you've never said anything bad about murderers because you've never murdered anyone yourself.

 

 

Am I correct?

[refuse]

I think everyone should chill and figure out what they are talking about. The distinction between 'restorations' and 'content mods' seems to overlap, but there is an important difference.

 

What is a 'restoration'? I think people missed the point Hummel made early on about what is available to modders: a few broken modules, hints of plot exposition and a few voice-overs. Everything else beyond that is clearly the work of the modder undertaking the project. Granted, he might be inspired by other 'cannon' stories and make, what he believes, are logical (or at the very least interesting) assumptions, but how is that any different to building a new planet from scratch, but using in-game textures and existing voice-overs?

 

For me a restoration would be similar to the GTA:San Andreas 'hot coffee' mod, where the code was already there in the game, it just needed to be 'unlocked', with minimal amount of twinkering and messing about from modders. On the other hand, the droid planet was left half-finished (at best), with no clear indication of its purpose, beyond a very broad outline. A lot of work has gone into the mod (very much appreciated by the way), but would you really call it a restoration, when you don't even know what it is you are restoring in the first place (unless of course the mod is just a big empty space)? Isn't it more of a content mod that's simply based on unused game data rather than an actual restoration of the unused game data? There are quite a few 'gaps' to fill in it to make it playable or enjoyable to play.

Edited April 17, 2008 by refuse