Do you yanks think we euros are poking around too much in your politics?

[walkerguy]

I have several reasons on why the US politics interest me:

 

- I have relatives in Montana and Arizona (In Canada as well). It's a family thing.

- Our economy is completely dependent on the US economy. It's a economy thing.

- Rock n' Roll, bubblegum, musclecars, hollywood and all that. It's a culture thing.

- The last thing, speaks for many people, i guess. Very young in school, you read in history class about the american revolution against the british, the declaration of independence and creation of the constitution, the best piece of paper ever written. "Damn, that country sounds like the best thing ever. It is paragorn of freedom and liberty", you think. Add everything from the above statements, and you have created an image, closest thing to an utopia.

 

Then you hear something about that they have to pay for healthcare. But you think: "Well, they're so rich and prosperous, it's like buying a set of shoes for them. Hardly any deal for them, i hope."

 

Then, you hear about having to pay for college or university. But again you think: "Well, they're so rich and prosperous, it's like buying a set of shoes for them. Hardly any deal for them, i hope".

 

Then you hear from your relatives that "that's not exactly the case". Damn, maybe they just need to some time to fix it. They are smart people, and with that enormous wealth of theirs, they can surely afford the best education that there can be, and think things out, you think.

 

Then you turn on american channels on the TV, and let's say for the sake of argument, the FOX news channel. Then your blood starts to boil.

 

You cool yourself down a bit, thinking: "Well, not everyone can be like that, shallow without any substance or integrity". After all, they won the cold war right? You fondly remember Reagan telling Gorbatjev: "Tear down this wall now!". Yeah, can't be that bad, can it? So you go nostalgic and read a bit american history, you know, to ensure that this is just temporary, right? As you read more, you start to wonder: "In the last 100 years, only two parties have had congress, senate and presidency. That doesn't sound like there's enough diversity in the public opinion". Ok, ok. Let's say that they are the only ones with interest of free speech, free press, freedom of religion and so on, and the rest of them are commies or nazis.

 

Then you start to read about the Cold War. Naively thinking that, The Soviets were the supreme being of evil, going into Aghanistan, Hungary, Czeckoslovakia, the whole iron curtain and so on. But then, you read about Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, Nicaragua and start sniffing more about Vietnam. And that's it, the final nail in the coffin with another tour to Iraq. You want to scream: "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?! HOW CAN YOU ELECT THESE BAFFOONS?! WHY CONTINUE WITH THIS MADNESS?!"

 

 

 

 

 

Then you calmly debate on the forums.

 

Second with Xard on the perfect, hahaha!

[thepixiesrock]

Perfectly ridiculous. So really, the problem here is a false representation of America that you are introduced to. I blame your schools.

[Meshugger]

Perfectly ridiculous. So really, the problem here is a false representation of America that you are introduced to. I blame your schools.

 

I am terribly sorry.

 

On the behalf of every non-american that's out there, i hereby pledge that we, as a people will trouble you no further. We have been fooled by our own systems, that there was somewhere, sometime, a country that was established on the principles of "Freedom, liberty and justice for all".

 

Again, we deeply regret causing you this inconvenience from our ignorance.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Meshugger

[thepixiesrock]

Perfectly ridiculous. So really, the problem here is a false representation of America that you are introduced to. I blame your schools.

 

I am terribly sorry.

 

On the behalf of every non-american that's out there, i hereby pledge that we, as a people will trouble you no further. We have been fooled by our own systems, that there was somewhere, sometime, a country that was established on the principles of "Freedom, liberty and justice for all".

 

Again, we deeply regret causing you this inconvenience from our ignorance.

 

You're still being ridiculous.

[Dark_Raven]

Why yes, yes it is.

[SteveThaiBinh]

As an aside, since the issue of other possible outcomes of WWII was raised, BBC7 (radio) has a dramatisation of Fatherland, set in a fictional present-day Britain in which Hitler won the war: Link.

[~Di]

I have no problems with Europeans, Australians, etc. being interested in our political process. I'm certainly interested in your political process, and follow all of your elections with interest.

 

I do have problems when Europeans, Australians, etc., who insult not only our political process, but ridicule Americans as a whole because they don't approve of who we have chosen. I didn't vote for Bush. I dislike Bush and his policies immensely. But even more than I dislike Bush, I dislike non-Americans who condescend to us, who mock us, and who through smug innuendo imply superiority to us, because the vote didn't turn out the way Europeans, Australians, etc., would have preferred. It's rude and it's arrogant, particularly when couched by the implication that they know more about this country than we do. If this is how our so-called allies view us, then frankly it makes me wonder if our mid-20th century isolationism wasn't the best policy after all. When "friends" regard us with such contempt, our enemies seem to be at least honest in their intentions. They want to see us humbled and destroyed. Honesty we can deal with. Deceit from "friends" is more... challenging.

[Leg]

whats on tv right now: the west wing, law&order, xena warrior princess, the xfiles, jay leno, conan, the Oz, V.I.P, and some weird american documentary about gambling...

 

First of all, nearly all of those shows have been canceled in the US, most of them several years ago. So, uh. Right.

 

Second of all, if anyone's getting upset about opinions on a message board, the off topic message board no less, then they're as stupid as whatever moronic opinions are upsetting them.

 

Talk is cheap. Enjoy it or ignore it, it shouldn't be a big deal. Your, views are your problem, just as my views are my problem.

 

PS. America roolz.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I was just saying that we get the same late-night reruns as you do. Instead of french or italian tv, as an example. Its like cultural transmogrification

 

 

 

( and european tv sucks... mostly )

Edited March 6, 2008 by Kaftan Barlast

[Walsingham]

People who say the Soviets won the war for us are making a basic error. The Soviets won the war for themselves, and if the Yanks hadn't been around then they'd have kept going across Eirope, and I'd speak Russian now.

 

Actually I do speak Russian, but that's not the point.

[Nick_i_am]

Which suggests that the 'yanks' were also fighting for themselves.

 

Though given that their main objective was really to stop Japanese expansion in the pacific, this is sort of a given.

[Blarghagh]

I have no problems with Europeans, Australians, etc. being interested in our political process. I'm certainly interested in your political process, and follow all of your elections with interest.

 

I do have problems when Europeans, Australians, etc., who insult not only our political process, but ridicule Americans as a whole because they don't approve of who we have chosen. I didn't vote for Bush. I dislike Bush and his policies immensely. But even more than I dislike Bush, I dislike non-Americans who condescend to us, who mock us, and who through smug innuendo imply superiority to us, because the vote didn't turn out the way Europeans, Australians, etc., would have preferred. It's rude and it's arrogant, particularly when couched by the implication that they know more about this country than we do. If this is how our so-called allies view us, then frankly it makes me wonder if our mid-20th century isolationism wasn't the best policy after all. When "friends" regard us with such contempt, our enemies seem to be at least honest in their intentions. They want to see us humbled and destroyed. Honesty we can deal with. Deceit from "friends" is more... challenging.

 

In their defense, Bush did win the election meaning that a small majority DID vote for him, and it's easy to view a country as their majority.

 

However, NOT in their defense, I have to say most of these people are idiots (I should know, I used to be one of them). I know people who blame America for everything. Some guy I know is constantly fronting a theory that states Americans created the AIDS virus in the 1950's.

[Walsingham]

Yeah Trueneutral. I've heard some bizarre, and frankly racist/insane views aof what America is and does. But to latch back onto topic, the poinrt is that as a major power it is only natural that we are interested in US politics. And I think that in many ways some of it comes down to laziness. US domestic coverage is so easy to repeat over here. By which I mean that tracking Russia also occurs but is far more effort.

[Blarghagh]

This is true, but often we only get the American coverage in broad lines. The media never really go in depth (occasionally a newspaper will, but not often), so often Europeans that do not regularely traverse the internet for additional coverage will really only have some idea of what's going on. Which is kind of sad, I think.

[~Di]

People who say the Soviets won the war for us are making a basic error. The Soviets won the war for themselves, and if the Yanks hadn't been around then they'd have kept going across Eirope, and I'd speak Russian now.

 

Actually I do speak Russian, but that's not the point.

 

Russia's losses in the war were staggering. There's little doubt that they made a major contribution toward Hitler's defeat... but what some seem to forget is that the only reason the Russians were fighting Hitler in the first place is because Hitler double-crossed them and broke their alliance. Now if that alliance had held and Russia had fought with the Germans, I'm pretty sure the war would not have turned out the way it did.

 

Whenever the topic of WW2 comes up, it really amazes me when I read arrogant comments from Americans about "saving Europe's butt", or Europeans bitterly complaining because America didn't jump into the war right away... it seems like after 60 years and plenty of history lessons to absorb we'd stop the foolish bragging and/or silly scapegoating. It's pointless, it's childish, and most of all, it's flat out wrong. Every country fought in the war for itself, for its survival as a nation. That's what wars are about. No country is an island, and no major global conflict can be won without the support of allies. I guess I don't understand how people that depended upon each other for survival can now seethe with anger and resentment to the point of near hatred. It makes no sense to me, and it frustrates me.

[Xard]

Germany and USSR would've ended up in the war anyway. It was only matter of time as both plotted against each other. Hitle moved way earlier than Stalin ever predicted and pretty much caught USSR when they weren't even halfway through their war preparations.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Xard

[Nick_i_am]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winter_War

 

Talking about 'staggering russian losses' these statistics always make me laugh, though that probably makes me a bad person.

 

'many volunteers (one of them future actor Christopher Lee) traveled to Finland to join Finland's forces'

 

haha, awsome.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[walkerguy]

I've created a special place to speak World War.

[Gromnir]

Me and mum were talking about politics and the US election today and in the middle of it I realised that we were discussing it as if we werent Swedes across the atlantic, but as if we actually had say in the matter. I know it will have consequences for the rest of the world, but if you read the news, your election is getting as much, if not more coverage than ours. Isnt that a bit silly?

 

silly? 'course it is silly. a bit like sheep arguing 'bout the morality o' wolfish behavior. sure, the predations o' wolves is o' intimate and immediate concern to the sheep, but all that dialectic 'mongst learned sheep not amount to a pot full o' spit, does it? tomorrow, you will still be sheep, and your most cogent and insightful arguments won't count for nothing if those wolves suddenly decide to eat you. nevertheless, given your relative impotence vis a vis wolves, it is of no surprise that you would be somewhat preoccupied with wolves and their immoral behaviors.

 

move up the food chain a bit and it won't seem as silly... but if you is a sheep it is perfectly understandable why you is preoccupied with wolves.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 7, 2008 by Gromnir

[Brdavs]

Me and mum were talking about politics and the US election today and in the middle of it I realised that we were discussing it as if we werent Swedes across the atlantic, but as if we actually had say in the matter. I know it will have consequences for the rest of the world, but if you read the news, your election is getting as much, if not more coverage than ours. Isnt that a bit silly?

 

Do you usualy limmit your discussions to the things you have direct influence over? cos if you do your household must be a quiet one... It`s called abstract thought, hypothesysing and expressing oppinion. Not a sin over here *yet*.

 

I honestly fail to see the point of this topic lol... you feel europeans are out of place discussing politics, namely US politics just cos they`re not US citizens? you feel they`re out of place disagreeing with them just cos they`re supposedly allies? lol. Basically some here want some and some here apparently actually do feel guilty/wrong about this? So in essence free speach and freedom of thought we like when its about undermining unfriendly regimes in oul rich regions and its "out of place" when it happens to raise some eyebrows in the wrong direction lol? Glad we cleared that one up "allies". With ppl like you at my back who the hell needs islamic extremism to fear.

 

 

And honestly why does every US/EU "argument" boil down to history... I`m sorry but the **** one does today doesn`t smell like roses cos ppl over the atlantic were doing it and worse 200 years ago lol. Nor is it tasty cos one happened to put in a massive contribution towards winning the WW2. Resorting to fingerpointing the past is scraping the bottom of the barrel BIG time. Especially if your country is built upon genocide. Little less selective memmory and little more of present "civilized" day argumentation ppl.

[Bartimaeus]

Me and mum were talking about politics and the US election today and in the middle of it I realised that we were discussing it as if we werent Swedes across the atlantic, but as if we actually had say in the matter. I know it will have consequences for the rest of the world, but if you read the news, your election is getting as much, if not more coverage than ours. Isnt that a bit silly?

 

Do you usualy limmit your discussions to the things you have direct influence over? cos if you do your household must be a quiet one... It`s called abstract thought, hypothesysing and expressing oppinion. Not a sin over here *yet*.

 

I honestly fail to see the point of this topic lol... you feel europeans are out of place discussing politics, namely US politics just cos they`re not US citizens? you feel they`re out of place disagreeing with them just cos they`re supposedly allies? lol. Basically some here want some and some here apparently actually do feel guilty/wrong about this? So in essence free speach and freedom of thought we like when its about undermining unfriendly regimes in oul rich regions and its "out of place" when it happens to raise some eyebrows in the wrong direction lol? Glad we cleared that one up "allies". With ppl like you at my back who the hell needs islamic extremism to fear.

 

 

And honestly why does every US/EU "argument" boil down to history... I`m sorry but the **** one does today doesn`t smell like roses cos ppl over the atlantic were doing it and worse 200 years ago lol. Nor is it tasty cos one happened to put in a massive contribution towards winning the WW2. Resorting to fingerpointing the past is scraping the bottom of the barrel BIG time. Especially if your country is built upon genocide. Little less selective memmory and little more of present "civilized" day argumentation ppl.

 

I'm sorry, but what did you say? You were mumbling.

 

(in effect, I'm saying none of this makes sense, if someone could translate to English, please do, as that's not what it's currently in)

 

Why don't you use ' instead of whatever the heck you're using instead? I can't seem to find it, either.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Bartimaeus

[Bartimaeus]

Oops. Double posted.

 

Where the hell is the delete post button?

Edited March 7, 2008 by Bartimaeus

[thepixiesrock]

We aren't allowed to delete things. Who knows what will happen if we get that much power.

[Walsingham]

We aren't allowed to delete things. Who knows what will happen if we get that much power.

 

You get power crazd when you're given a propelling pencil. Pyoo! Pyoo!

[Bartimaeus]

We aren't allowed to delete things. Who knows what will happen if we get that much power.

What happens if you accidentally double post, then? :|