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Magister Lajciak

4E Rules: First Look

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Wizards of the Coast has released the first real look at the 4E rules. We have had sporadic information until now and could conjecture a lot from that, but for the first time we can now see how the basic rules interact.

 

Download the document here: www.wizards.com/dnd/files/news_20080228.zip

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Personally, I am not very thrilled with 4E. Too many unnecessary changes... Add the MMORPG feel to it and you get a munchkin fest.

 

Did you take a look at the D&D Insider software? It's as if you were playing an online game. The only problem is that it's even worse from what we already have. What the heck, even D&D online looks better...


"Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc

"I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me

 

Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it. :p

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why on earth does they keep the ridiculous even-number nonsense for ability scores... or any kinda ability scores that not simply match modifiers? all this talk 'bout streamline and simplification and the most obvious and easiest steps towards accomplishing seems to be... missing.

 

oh well.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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why on earth does they keep the ridiculous even-number nonsense for ability scores... or any kinda ability scores that not simply match modifiers? all this talk 'bout streamline and simplification and the most obvious and easiest steps towards accomplishing seems to be... missing.

 

oh well.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I don't know this for fact, but the original reason for the even number ability score stuff is actually quite logical and clever. It all goes back to the original 3d6 for rolling characters, where the average roll is 10.5, so they made 10 and 11 the average scores with no modifiers, and just extrapolated from there. Of course, many people use point buy, and if you use 4d6 drop the lowest, then your averages are much different than that, but I think that was the original thinking. Of course, that thinking wouldn't work with other scores, since while there is basically no statistical difference in rolling a 10 or 11, there is a HUGE difference in rolling a 17 versus 18 (3x more likely to roll a 17), but they are still the same in the modifiers.

 

Whatever, I'm looking at the stuff now. The artwork for the book covers (enworld linked to them) look like 2e books to me.

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Just a first impression, but ACK, the names suck! Unoriginal adjectivenoun names that are the stock and trade of fantasy like Ironforge (get it, he's a dwarf!) and Duskmeadow. Duskmeadow? WTF? At least they laid off the apostrophes (I'll be I just haven't gotten to those characters yet though).

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why on earth does they keep the ridiculous even-number nonsense for ability scores... or any kinda ability scores that not simply match modifiers? all this talk 'bout streamline and simplification and the most obvious and easiest steps towards accomplishing seems to be... missing.

 

You are right that this could have been done better, but it does not bother me too much - the system is not the best, but it is good enough for me.

 

I would have preferred something along the lines of the following:

 

Non-heroic ability scores are distributed according to the following generating function:

 

Roll 4d4

 

This has the advantage of having the nice and simple 10 as the mean of the distribution (rather than 10.5 in 3d6). It also has tighter clustering around the center than the 3d6 function.

 

I would then have each point above 10 grant a +1 modifier (so 16 would have a +6 modifier) and each point below 10 grant a -1 modifier (so 4 would have a -6 modifier).

 

Distributions for PCs could be skewed towards the upper end in similar ways as they were in past editions (e.g. we could have roll 5d4 drop the lowest, or some sort of point buy or array...) and standard NPCs could use arrays.

 

But alas, the 3d6 distribution was a sacred cow. It is not a disaster, though, as this distribution is decent enough despite their being better alternatives.

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Yet more stuff on 4E! Here is the blog of Scott Rouse (Brand Manager for D&D).

 

It contains new screens from the D&D Insider, which look better than the ones we have seen thus far (at least I think so, though that won't make me pay a per month subsription fee...):

 

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=996519

 

Note that the blog may be updated throughout D&D Experience.

 

Here are the screenshots for those without access to D&D Insider:

 

AngelWarrior.jpg

 

NPCThug.jpg

 

DragonBorn.jpg

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A 4E interview of Scott Rouse and Andy Collins by an ENWorld Moderator:

 

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220109

 

I had the good fortune to have a sit-down chat with Scott Rouse and Andy Collins today at D&D the Experience. In preparation, I gathered questions from EN World posters, and asked as many as I could. The results are below:

 

Question: What are your favorite aspects of the new edition?

 

Answer: Scott Rouse says

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You are doing exactly what they expect you to do: fall for they hype... These comments kinda remind me of how Bestheda works... I am not falling for it! Moreover, I DO NOT WISH to learn new rules! It took me quite some time to learn about the 3E/3.5E mechanics (and I still have much to learn), I won't want to start all over again.

 

The races, the classes, the special abilities given to each class, the skills... I like NONE of the changes. Despite having some obscure parts, 3E rules were pretty much coherent. 4E seems like munchkin fan service to me...


"Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc

"I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me

 

Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it. :p

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You are doing exactly what they expect you to do: fall for they hype...

 

This statement leaves me confused and reeling! What makes you say that, considering the fact that I am by no means sure, whether I will switch to the 4th edition or stay with 3.5 edition (which I like a lot). D&D Experience has information about the game and this information will hopefully help me reach a decision, but that does not mean that I am falling for anything.

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My mistake then... You have my apologies, friend. :shifty:


"Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc

"I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me

 

Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it. :p

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Why the heck don't they just switch to hexes? It's the most efficient use of space and allows for very easy modeling of circles and cones. HEXAGONS: NATURE'S POLYGON.

 

Hexes rule, squares drool.

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So, Warlocks are core now? I totally need to become a PnP geek then.


"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."

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Why the heck don't they just switch to hexes? It's the most efficient use of space and allows for very easy modeling of circles and cones. HEXAGONS: NATURE'S POLYGON.

 

Hexes rule, squares drool.

 

 

Why would they do that after releasing all of the dungeon tile packs, which are square based? It would make those, which should be usable under any edition, obsolete, along with all of the spell template transparencies they've already done for burning hands, cone of cold, and I think a couple others... though those were limited to the miniatures support packs I believe. They even made different templates for the different cone angles... ala those you can photocopy out of the DM's guide. Is it really that difficult to use those? All in all a bad suggestion by Sawyer.

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You are doing exactly what they expect you to do: fall for they hype... These comments kinda remind me of how Bestheda works... I am not falling for it! Moreover, I DO NOT WISH to learn new rules! It took me quite some time to learn about the 3E/3.5E mechanics (and I still have much to learn), I won't want to start all over again.

 

The races, the classes, the special abilities given to each class, the skills... I like NONE of the changes. Despite having some obscure parts, 3E rules were pretty much coherent. 4E seems like munchkin fan service to me...

 

hehehe, reminds me a bit of people I know talking about 2e vs 3e when 3e came out. :lol:

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Wizards of the Coast has released the first real look at the 4E rules. We have had sporadic information until now and could conjecture a lot from that, but for the first time we can now see how the basic rules interact.

 

Download the document here: www.wizards.com/dnd/files/news_20080228.zip

 

This makes 4e sound like a cross between D&D and HeroQuest....

 

Rouse thinks of himself as an

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Why the heck don't they just switch to hexes? It's the most efficient use of space and allows for very easy modeling of circles and cones. HEXAGONS: NATURE'S POLYGON.

i agree hexes are best.

 

but i imagine anything with more than four sides is likely to confuse the target audience, especially when it comes to creating indoor maps.


dumber than a bag of hammers

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squares has one advantage: make it easier to draw very straight dungeoun hallways and make perfectly rectangular or square-shaped rooms. never underestimate sloth factor. 'course given the growing importance o' movement in 4e, one wonders why hex ain't utilized.

 

in any event you can usually convert w/ only small difficulty if you got ruler and compass.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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And indoor maps, assuming relatively straight walls and corridors, are easier to create with squares or hexes?

are you asking because you believe hexes are easier?


dumber than a bag of hammers

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