Prince Harry actually fighting!

[Walsingham]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7269743.stm

 

It seems Prince Harry, who we discussed before, has actually been fighting in Afghanistan on the front lines for some weeks. This news, and the news that he's OK please me on a personal and political level. It's nice to see that being an heir to the throne means you can still have guts.

 

What is perhaps still more amazing is that the UK's media have up until now not run the story in oerder to allow him to go ahead, and not risk anyone's life unduly. What is less pleasing is that this US website the Drudge Report, seems to have leaked the info. Coming on the back of the bogus Barack Obama pictures it reinforces my feeling that one should have nothing to do with the wretched thing. Who the hell is frequenting thsi site, and do they have no concept whatever of operational security or basic integrity?

[sharkz]

for king and country!

[Kaftan Barlast]

What differance does it make if the Talibananas know theres a prince or two in Afghanistan? It's not like they printed his GPS coordinates

[Guard Dog]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7269743.stm

 

It seems Prince Harry, who we discussed before, has actually been fighting in Afghanistan on the front lines for some weeks. This news, and the news that he's OK please me on a personal and political level. It's nice to see that being an heir to the throne means you can still have guts.

 

What is perhaps still more amazing is that the UK's media have up until now not run the story in oerder to allow him to go ahead, and not risk anyone's life unduly. What is less pleasing is that this US website the Drudge Report, seems to have leaked the info. Coming on the back of the bogus Barack Obama pictures it reinforces my feeling that one should have nothing to do with the wretched thing. Who the hell is frequenting thsi site, and do they have no concept whatever of operational security or basic integrity?

Don't mistake the Drudge Report for real journalisim. All they do is link news stories other people wrote for other sources. Even when they do pass off work as their own, it came from somewhere else. Like the Monica Lewisnki thing that drudge is credited for breaking. All he did was buy it from the Enquirer whose reporters where angry that their rag was not going to run it. If Prince Harry's deployment was on drudge, it was common knowledge somewhere.

 

On another note I think it is extremely cool that the blood of the old lions can still be found in the royal house!

[Walsingham]

As you chaps know I'm something of a Monarchist in a quiet way.* You have to ask, whatever the undemocratic flavours a monarchy has, how often do you see the sons of Presidents and Prime Ministers on the front line?

 

 

*Something to do with a framed oath of allegiance I have on my wall.

[Gromnir]

As you chaps know I'm something of a Monarchist in a quiet way.* You have to ask, whatever the undemocratic flavours a monarchy has, how often do you see the sons of Presidents and Prime Ministers on the front line?

 

 

*Something to do with a framed oath of allegiance I have on my wall.

 

 

what an odd pov. in this country we ain't forced to endure the children o' Presidents once those Presidents is no longer in office, and those children need not necessarily become President one day. john quincy adams were the son of a former US President, but only the current US prez is a similar example.

 

neither does we force or expect the children of political powerful peoples to follow in their parent's footsteps, 'cause simple blood ties not necessarily confer the requisite ability or desire. the fact that some snotty brat's great-great-great-great-whatever did something noteworthy should mean something to Gromnir? paternalism is bad 'nuff in this country w/o some ridiculous form o' state sanctioned bs to reinforce the antiquated notion.

 

is loads o' folks fighting in afghanastan and iraq and other places. means nothing to Gromnir that some product o' generations o' questionable breeding is also one o' those people fighting. leroy jones, a kid from philadelphia whose momma has cancer and whose sister is still in middle school, had to go off and fight overseas... is making momma proud and sending pretty much all his pay home. more or less noteworthy than harry? more.

 

is not that we dislike harry, but the whole notion o

[Gorgon]

Well how often do you see sons of monarchs on the front line, they usually get some out of the way duty like navy or reserve officer. Of course they are usually able to capitalise on their education and qualify for something other than front line infantry.

 

Either way, kudos to Harry for doing something other than screwing up.

[Humodour]

As you chaps know I'm something of a Monarchist in a quiet way.* You have to ask, whatever the undemocratic flavours a monarchy has, how often do you see the sons of Presidents and Prime Ministers on the front line?

 

 

*Something to do with a framed oath of allegiance I have on my wall.

 

Supposedly Australia is still a monarchy as well.

 

Who woulda thunk it.

[Gorth]

As you chaps know I'm something of a Monarchist in a quiet way.* You have to ask, whatever the undemocratic flavours a monarchy has, how often do you see the sons of Presidents and Prime Ministers on the front line?

 

 

*Something to do with a framed oath of allegiance I have on my wall.

 

Supposedly Australia is still a monarchy as well.

 

Who woulda thunk it.

We are stealing one of your people to turn into our own royalty

[Laozi]

He should have to ride a horse no matter what he's doing.

[Walsingham]

He should have to ride a horse no matter what he's doing.

 

Ride a horse while inside a tank? I'll grant you that could only be more impressive.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I would think this would increase the moral of British soldiers.

[Krookie]

I give the guy credit. He probably takes a lot of crap from other soldiers for being a prince and all

[Walsingham]

I would think this would increase the moral of British soldiers.

 

It's certainly increased my morale. I think it will have had a comparable effect on my mates. At the end of the day if someone from the top of the system mucks in with the rest of you then it's all to the good.

 

Gorgon, Harry's armoured recce, not infantry, and while I take your point being a hlicopter pilot etc can be bloody dangerous also.

 

Gromnir, I haven't forgotten your point. I'm just pondering how best to reply.

[Dark_Raven]

Why would they allow him to be over there risking his life considering he's the next in line for the throne.

[Walsingham]

Why would they allow him to be over there risking his life considering he's the next in line for the throne.

 

He's not. It goes

Charles

William

Harry

 

But he's pretty close.

[Dark_Raven]

Being a royal, he should be at home, being pampered and living the high life.

[Tigranes]

Yes, god forbid that he makes a choice to join the army, right?

[J.E. Sawyer]

is loads o' folks fighting in afghanastan and iraq and other places. means nothing to Gromnir that some product o' generations o' questionable breeding is also one o' those people fighting. leroy jones, a kid from philadelphia whose momma has cancer and whose sister is still in middle school, had to go off and fight overseas... is making momma proud and sending pretty much all his pay home. more or less noteworthy than harry? more.

Which is more noteworthy: being the son of an aristocratic family and voluntarily going to war, or being the son of an aristocratic family and using your family's influence to get out of going to war? Given the historical tendency toward the latter in the U.S., I don't think it's so strange to look upon what Harry's doing as refreshing... all things considered.

 

I've always sensed a strong distaste among Britons for the chain of command in the military, with officers handing down orders to hapless grunts who get slaughtered en masse at places like Anzio. Though that's the way it usually is around the world, it seems noteworthy in the UK. Everything about the royal family suggests that they are not like regular citizens. This is one of the few things that suggests otherwise, as marginal as the exception is.

[Gromnir]

"Which is more noteworthy: being the son of an aristocratic family and voluntarily going to war, or being the son of an aristocratic family and using your family's influence to get out of going to war?"

 

so what? lower the bar for children who come from substance... get some special pat on back for doing something that literal tens of thousands o' people do? *chuckle* go easy on the stuffing pummeling. fact that there is cruddy aristos out there not makes harry's actions more impressive that leroy from philadelphia.

 

" Given the historical tendency toward the latter in the U.S., I don't think it's so strange to look upon what Harry's doing as refreshing... all things considered."

 

as a history major, no doubt josh can name literally hundreds of US children o' privilege who took on the burden o' military service. wanna start the list, or should Gromnir? fact that you can name folks who has dodged military service with help o' daddy in no way ennobles (pun intended) some aristocrat neither.

 

is it swell that harry took up military service? sure. is more noteworthy than the tens of thousands of others current serving? why? 'cause he is royalty? bah. is not as if he has done something special to earn respect neither. story is noteworthy simply 'cause harry is born o' privilege... which is a crap reason. have some big story every time some corporate ceo's or US senator's son goes to war? makes front page news when leroy or bob or john or many other people you never met or don't know take up military service?

 

maybe if harry had earned privilege we would be more impressed. maybe if story had harry ,the fullbright scholar (or the english equivalent) who were forgoing the opportunity to study abroad and instead joined military 'cause of his personal convictions, we could get impressed or interested in the story, but that ain't it is it? harry's story is only a story 'cause in 1689 parliament decided that not having a king/queen were more trouble than having a catholic king... or perhaps you wanna go back further and say that 'cause william invaded in 1066, Gromnir should give a damn 'bout who is harry?

 

harry ain't news to Gromnir 'til he does something more noteworthy than being related remotely and tangentially to a famous conquerer who died back in 'round 1088 (date looks wrong... can never remember the death dates o' these english monarchs.)

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Brdavs]

the whole notion o’ royalty and noble birth offends our American & ethnic sensibilities. create a special royalty tax that leaves 'em with no more in savings than the average english citizen, then kick 'em out and tell 'em to get real jobs... but you folks actually likes your royal family. is weird.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I call BS.

 

Its a well noted irony of just how endeared to the "secession from monarhy" americans their "aristocratic" political families are... Kenndys, Bushes etc. etc.

For a nation that "takes offense at nobility" its kinda funny how dynastic you like your politicians&officials to be and at the end of the day how much it matters to you wich of the candidates gets indorced by a particural dynasty. Twas big big news when Obama and Billary got their seperate Kennedy backings lol... well twas more of a big news for H.C. cos "she got atleast one kennedy in her corner"...

I`m not even gonna go that being from a prominent family prolly carries you further (in a practical sense) in US than in any other western country.

 

cattle, black... Atleas the Windsors put on a nice traditional&historic "show", you know, countries with actual history and traditions get to do that heh... Plus ppl know whats the bang for pound-sterling.

Whatever did G.W. contribute before he became presidend other than getting a fee ride thru life (including educaton) on daddys (Washington) "connections"? And whatever will he do after 08 other than cash in the privelages of being a Bush and an ex presidente heh?

 

Profound american dislike of "nobility" my arse hehehe... You seceded from a parliament monarchy but you substituted them with a very much monarchy like presidential system and a truckload of aristocracy of yourown. (caricatured a bit but still a grain of truth in it)

Edited February 29, 2008 by Brdavs

[Walsingham]

Had time and beer to consider now.

 

I think it's rather unfiar to highlight folks from poor backgrounds as being equally courageous. I never said they weren't! But I do think it takes a special form of courage when you have quite literally every possible excuse NOT to go. Indeed, where whole sections of the government, media, and the people are trying to stop you. I know that when I was volunteering the fact that my girlfriend was very much against it, along with my parents, made quitting seem almost the only sane thing to do.

 

I also think Brdavs has a bang on point, about you yanks. But I shan't crow about it, because it would quickly derail the thread.

[Gromnir]

"caricatured a bit but still a grain of truth in it"

 

an infinitesimal small grain perhaps.

 

btw, bush, for all his perceived and actual flaws, still had to be elected. you no doubt don't see the significance.

 

"I know that when I was volunteering the fact that my girlfriend was very much against it, along with my parents, made quitting seem almost the only sane thing to do."

 

but they didn't do no news story 'bout you, did they? why not?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Cantousent]

When was the last time a Kennedy backed candidate made it into the White House? Nuts.

 

Gromnir already made this point, but I'll mention it again for those of you with a tin ear: We haven't had a lot of commanders in chief who were the son of a previous President. When we have had them, they have been duly elected by the people.

 

You know, I think it's great that Harry's volunteered for service in Afghanistan. I think it's even better that he doesn't look to be making a big deal of it. Altogether I think it's admirable for a number of reasons. We SHOULD recognize folks who take on the uniform during times of war even though they have every opportunity to avoid it.

 

However, I also think that we cannot make too much of it, or it cheapens his efforts. So, yes, recognize that someone risked his neck when he didn't need to do so. We should always admire such people. ...But Harry isn't admirable because he's a prince of England. He's admirable because he's a guy who didn't have to take a chance but did. Now, did Leroy join before the terrorist attack and then get shipped off to Afghanistan? If so, he's admirable because he tried to better his life and supports his mom and sister, but not necessarily for risking his neck when he could have avoided it. I can tell you that a lot of folks in the service before the attack didn't really think they'd see action. To be in Afghanistan or Iraq today, however, means that you volunteered to be there. In that case, I admire both Leroy and Harry in about equal measure. One because he risks his neck for his principles and one because he risks his neck for his family (and probably his principles as well). The point is, I'm going to admire most folks who risk their neck. That Leroy doesn't get his due measure shouldn't mean that we should begrudge Harry his. Anyhow, celebrities end up in the limelight. No biggie.

 

I think Gromnir is a little harsh on poor Harry, but Harry is a soldier, so I'm sure he can live with it. However, I think Brdavs is insane. Nevertheless, he used a smiley and so I can't really hold it against him.

[Brdavs]

"caricatured a bit but still a grain of truth in it"

 

an infinitesimal small grain perhaps.

 

btw, bush, for all his perceived and actual flaws, still had to be elected. you no doubt don't see the significance.

 

Wich actually proves that the americans don`t have a "inborn dislike of nobility/aristocracy". The fact they vote into office candidates in no minute part based on the political show(lets face it policy differences are minute, tis who is more "presidential") and dynasticbackgrounds/backings (huge bonus if applicable) indicates americans more likely have a nobility/aristocracy fetish.

heck if I`m not mistaken twas a US medium that broke the Harry story

 

 

You can call me insane but the fact is that there are several very well of families that are popular, whos word counts somewhat big and have a tendency to be involved in the upper most politics + whose surename tends to be a shiny reference... I`m sorry but that doesn`t sound all to unaristocratic like to me heh... I don`t have a problem with that but attacking the backward europeans for their antiquated notion of "nobility" is slightly hypocritical considering we atleast have a clear "leash" on ours lol...

Edited February 29, 2008 by Brdavs