The Decline and Fall of Europe

[Nick_i_am]

Yeah, too bad we don't vote for them.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I did say OTHER EUROPEANS.

 

Yes, but eastern Europeans are often considered to be inferior by racists, so that did not absolve you of suspicion.

 

Back off, Nightshade.

 

Why should I?

 

Next time check your accusations.

 

I looked at your other postings, and there was nothing to counter my initial premise.

 

You don't even know my race. Thought of that?

 

Yes I did think of that.

[Tigranes]

What I'm saying is that America is a melting pot. Is that not true? Is it not a fact that like 90-99% of the U.S. people didn't decend from U.S. soil? I did say OTHER EUROPEANS. I'm not racist or east-hater...

 

Okay. I'm just confused - what does America being a 'melting pot' have anything to do with the decline of US or the Europe? How has the melting pot phenomenon influenced the issue in any way?

[Meshugger]

One thread late last year was about immigrants completely failing to integrate to european societies.

 

This thread seems to be about europeans having demolished their blood by mixing with non-white immigrants.

 

I am getting mixed messages here, anyone care to help?

Edited February 21, 2008 by Meshugger

[samm]

Meshugger: This is not a mixed message: "Immigrants failing to integrate" is one accusation that is made easily (who would want to integrate into a society that immediately marked you as an outsider? considering this, surprisingly many immigrants are willing to integrate!), "europeans having demolished their blood by mixing with non-white immigrants" is an accusation that fortunately could get you punished by the (weak, but existant) anti-racism laws. So, it's not mixed, as both are ways for "excusing" the ever present, more or less latent racism.

[walkerguy]

I did say OTHER EUROPEANS.

 

Yes, but eastern Europeans are often considered to be inferior by racists, so that did not absolve you of suspicion.

 

You don't even know my race. Thought of that?

 

Yes I did think of that.

 

I'm not referring to Eastern Europeans alone! I hate the Soviets for what they did to eastern Europe snd I'm not a self absorbed American poking fun at anyone disadvantaged. No, I'm sure you didn't think of that, my race! Oh hmmm is he Japanese? Maybe Icelander? Perhaps French Guianan? Or possibly from Yemen? Or how about Chad? Was he descended from the Mongols? Nah I bet hes got Norse blood in him... Oh, at any rate, hes racist!, and trying to mock the third world over the Internet!! For the record, I got German, Swedish, French and Portuguese blood in me, "white" and have a care for others and hate the passive aggressive tactics of the Beijing and Moscow governments, which threaten the U.S. and Europe. That is not an oxymoron, either. How low can you go! Lets limbo, Nightshade!

[walkerguy]

What I'm saying is that America is a melting pot. Is that not true? Is it not a fact that like 90-99% of the U.S. people didn't decend from U.S. soil? I did say OTHER EUROPEANS. I'm not racist or east-hater...

 

Okay. I'm just confused - what does America being a 'melting pot' have anything to do with the decline of US or the Europe? How has the melting pot phenomenon influenced the issue in any way?

 

Well, Mod, its cause they think I'm racist.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I'm not referring to Eastern Europeans alone!

 

Really? Your post said, and I quote, "other far away Europeans" - and Russia is not "far away" from mainland Europe.

 

No, I'm sure you didn't think of that, my race!

 

Why are you so sure I did not take that fact into my calculations? What proof do you have that my claims would not be equally valid if you turned out to be from a non-Anglo race? Some Japanese are extremely racist, as are peoples all over the world - including here in the United States. Now, as for your "trying to mock the third world," I never said anything about that in my posting, nor should you assume I was trying to claim that was your motive operandi. My claims were only directed at your seemingly anti-minority postings, something that other posters -Samm for instance- have also addressed. Some of your postings appear to be xenophobic*, something that no amount of references to America's "melting pot" can mend. The thing that you need to do is to stop beating around the bush, to use a tired cliche, and address our concerns. If someone accuses you of something falsely based on something controversial that you posted, than you should present evidence in your defence; not continue spewing more and more spam-ish postings about irrelevant topics.

 

How low can you go! Lets limbo, Nightshade!

 

As you wish.

 

 

 

*

xen

Edited February 22, 2008 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Tigranes]

I would say something at this juncture, but I remain a confused boy because I still have yet to understand what walkerguy is actually saying in the original statement:

 

Thats what Europeans get for migrating and mixing with asians, africans, and other far away Europeans: an unrespectable country that starts headstrong and ends up collapsing a few hundred years later. thumbsup.gif I'm screwed. (U.S.)

 

I mean, is he implying that mixing with all these different races has made US an unrespectable country? Is the entire quote a complete nonchalant joke? Does he mean something else? What? What?

[Brdavs]

Putting aside all of the over the pond superiority complexes escorted with paranoia...

 

Christ that article is 2+ years old lol... did you just google "Europe" and "decline" to make yourself feel better? Taken a look at the papers lately? The touted dollar plummited compared to euro and euro is in fact taking its place to an extent... And the increadibly structurally sound US economy compared to EU and Asia "nothing" apparantly has a "slight" morgage and banking "problem" lol...

 

Might I suggest you don`t open up threads like this till you`ve actually cought up with 2008. Cos you know, things have a tendency to change through time and whatnot heh...

 

 

"1. We believe in Society this side of the pond. You believe in hiding under a duvet with a shotgun."

 

Must explain brainwashing, and forcing others socieities to accept yours by force. *cough* Afrika 8cough* Amerikas 8cough*

 

 

"2. We believe human life is precious. You believe someone should be shot for stealing fig newtons."

 

Must explain Hitler.

 

 

Yeah, I went there. But, the ego of Europeans who try to pretend their the Land of Love, and Happiness, and the US is the Big bad Evil is a joke - espicially since all of the US's aggresive tendencies (for right or wrong reasons) are a direct result of European influence.

 

 

Europeans who look down on the US should look in a mirror... and, a history book. L0L

 

 

As for the topic: Europe ain't going anywhere. The Fall is foolish talk.

 

And Europe wins by default!

 

So by justifying US actions by holding Europes history against it you`re admiting that US is an infintile nation that has yet to clock up some history of itsown and during that time get the agressivnes out of its system? Yea evolution does take its time and toll hehe.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Brdavs

[Walsingham]

I must state again - if it needs stating - that Obsidian forums has no tolerance for the expression of views which endorse bigotry or racism of any kind.

 

Opposing miscegenation - the mixing of races and cultures - is a hallmark of the very worst politics humanity has ever contrived: apartheid, nazism, and genocide of all kinds.

[Magister Lajciak]

Thats what Europeans get for migrating and mixing with asians, africans, and other far away Europeans: an unrespectable country that starts headstrong and ends up collapsing a few hundred years later.

 

Are you some sort of bigoted, xenophobic white-supremest, or are you just an ignorant racist?

 

What the heck? Are you some kind of inquisition or something? Why did you feel the need to derail a perfectly good and interesting thread with baseless accusations of racism? Walkerguy probably made an innocent comment in jest and you immediately pounced on him like some sort of Orwelian thought-police. For the record, I am from Eastern/Central Europe and I do not feel his comments were in any way racist against me, so please give him a break and let's return this thread on topic.

[Morgoth]

Europe has constantly changed, and spiritual and cultural regions were always more important in reality, as opposed to national borders, or bloodlines. I don't get how diversity could make Europe weak - it's the unity within the diversion that makes it strong. However, diversity != cultural assimilation. Nobody's gonna force me to live after i.e. Chinese customs and relinquish my own just because people think that brings folks closer. No.

[Lyric Suite]

Are you some sort of bigoted, xenophobic white-supremest, or are you just an ignorant racist?

 

What if he's right?

[Azarkon]

Christ that article is 2+ years old lol... did you just google "Europe" and "decline" to make yourself feel better?

 

While alot can change in a year, structural weaknesses typically do not. The reason for bringing up the article is that it was linked to me in the course of a discussion about the future of the world, and I'm wondering how credible it is. I can link the article suggesting that the US economy is on the decline, too, but it doesn't say enough, beyond that the US is in the course of a recession, which we already know.

[Walsingham]

Are you some sort of bigoted, xenophobic white-supremest, or are you just an ignorant racist?

 

What if he's right?

 

I've spent some time in countries run on those lines, including apartheid South Africa. The result is the perpetuation of racist notions, bigotry, violence, and cultural stagnation. If that is what one wants then certainly give it a try.

 

I think it's pertinent to add that Great Britain is an absolutely determinedly mongrel nation, and one could hardly call our achievements insignificant. (Not always glorious, but certainly on a grand scale).

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

absolutely determinedly mongrel nation

 

Not true, I want to stay out of this conversation as much as possible, but I would also like to state that I am actually offended by your statement, as it is both a lie(which you're most likely not directly responsible for) and ignorant, an absolute by product of the age we live in, thus the sickening truth of an overly conditioned society, and the hypocracy of British governments since 1950's onwards. The truth is we've been duped into thinking a pack of lies is a fact, I suggest that one examines british history over the last 2000 years or so in depth.

 

The worst thing that ever happend to Europe was Chritianity.

[Xard]

The worst thing that ever happend to Europe was Chritianity.

 

 

Baawww butthurt

 

That stand has no intellectual basis and you should be shamed just for saying that

Edited February 22, 2008 by Xard

[Lyric Suite]

I've spent some time in countries run on those lines

 

What lines are these again?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Walkerguy probably made an innocent comment in jest and you immediately pounced on him like some sort of Orwelian thought-police.

 

If the comment was made 'in jest," why did he not say so, and how do you devise that it was an "innocent comment?" I agree with Walsingham when he says, "opposing miscegenation - the mixing of races and cultures - is a hallmark of the very worst politics humanity has ever contrived: apartheid, nazism, and genocide of all kinds." It is also true "that Obsidian forums has no tolerance for the expression of views which endorse bigotry or racism of any kind," so, even if it was a joke gone bad, it is pushing the lines in that regard.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

The worst thing that ever happend to Europe was Chritianity.

 

 

Baawww butthurt

 

That stand has no intellectual basis and you should be shamed just for saying that

 

Enlighten me then, if christianity has been so great for europe tell me one benefit its given to europe!

 

I can think of none. So go on then!

[Walsingham]

absolutely determinedly mongrel nation

 

Not true, I want to stay out of this conversation as much as possible, but I would also like to state that I am actually offended by your statement, as it is both a lie(which you're most likely not directly responsible for) and ignorant, an absolute by product of the age we live in, thus the sickening truth of an overly conditioned society, and the hypocracy of British governments since 1950's onwards. The truth is we've been duped into thinking a pack of lies is a fact, I suggest that one examines british history over the last 2000 years or so in depth.

 

 

If it's incorrect, help me out and show me why. My understanding was that with the obvious exception of miscegenation on colour lines we're a huge hodgepodge of Nords, Celts, saxons, Irish, French...

 

The worst thing that ever happend to Europe was Chritianity.

 

In what way precisely?

 

~~

 

Benefits of Christianity:

 

pacifism

charity towards the weak

the so-called 'protestant work ethic'

 

Just a couple that sprang to mind.

 

Or would you prefer Nordic or Classic religion?

 

 

~~~

 

BTW I'm going to pretend this is relevant to Europe going down the tubes because it refers to notions that we are being impoverished by outside influences.

[samm]

There wasn't even a wink-smilie or any other slightest hint that it could be a joke. Unfortunately, some others in this thread even consider it a good statement

The worst thing that ever happend to Europe was Chritianity.

Baawww butthurt

 

That stand has no intellectual basis and you should be shamed just for saying that

Probably it was generalizing a bit too much by blaming Christianity as such, but chose some of these or similar topics: if there hadn't been the crusades, the repulsing of the arabs in spain, inquisition and witchhunts, the opposing of contraception, of homosexuality, of freedom of thought (including speech etc within), the proselytization (?) or killing of 'heathens', pagans etc pp... all in the name of Christianity, then I could accept the benefits that this religion brought us without much afterthougt. Like this, I fear that Christianity is to blame for many cultural problems in Europe and all over the world. I agree that it was probably misinterpreted Christianity, but it used this cover. This should not mean that pure scientific or materialist or economic thinking or something like that would have been better.

 

[Edit]To be fair, some benefits: Humanism, however anti religious some parts of it are, would probably not have come to the mind of certain people without a cultural christian background. The ideals of equality and mutual love (weakend to respect) are still alive in nowadays culture and partially in laws.

Edited February 22, 2008 by samm

[Pidesco]

The worst thing that ever happend to Europe was Chritianity.

 

 

Baawww butthurt

 

That stand has no intellectual basis and you should be shamed just for saying that

 

Enlighten me then, if christianity has been so great for europe tell me one benefit its given to europe!

 

I can think of none. So go on then!

 

Culturally speaking, Europe survived the Middle Ages because of Christianity, and if not for the Christian work ethic, European values wouldn't have conquered the world.

 

Basically, Europe wouldn't be Europe if not for Christianity.

 

 

Oh, and Great Britain is definitely a mongrel nation, just like about every single European nation.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

There wasn't even a wink-smilie or any other slightest hint that it could be a joke. Unfortunately, some others in this thread even consider it a good statement

 

Again, I agree with Samm when he says there is no evidence that walkerguy